Do Quarter Munchers Actually Exist?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Now it is funny someone brought up Simpsons, X-Men, the two Konami games. Lets add also the two TMNT games. I understand why the TMNT games were popular, but man when I played both games I found the gameplay to be sloppy. I always thought JP Metamorphic Force and Violent Storm were Konami's best beat 'em ups.

X Men and TMNT also have those weird, pseudorandom throws that seemingly come out of nowhere. Handy when they occur, but you don't seem to have any control over when you do that TMNT repeated slam. Completely agree, the unpredictable boss stunning is stupid. Metamorphic Force by comparison is polished, fair, bosses aren't bullshit... it's just the setting is a tad absurd... okay, a LOT absurd (russian lumberjack bear and mullet Hokuto no Ken wannabe panther wut) that, and few seem to have played the JP version, so people only know about the US and Euro versions that have the stupid health drain, the US version's ridiculous st5 boss rush, the vastly increased boss difficulty (second boss can do his spinning attack vertically and diagonally and it comes out faster).

[Skykid]

TMNT is the definition of quarter muncher. A high quality product that's designed to rape every penny you have. Anyone seen the last boss?

[Randorama]

Re: last few posts...

I one-lifed both TMNT and Metamorphic Force. Even better, on the second title I was able to clear the first loop virtually unscathed, both in the JP and EU versions. I also 1-CC'ed Gaiapolis, with each character.

I actually 1-CC'ed several (but not all) of Konami's beat'em up/action games, so I would say that their titles revolved around exploiting key weaknesses of the engine, or any progress would be impossible. In retrospective, I liked their games, but I always felt that other companies had a better approach to game design and systems. Ironically, I always struggled with most Capcom fighters.

[Ruldra]

I also 1-CC'ed Gaiapolis, with each character.

Did you use the exploit in stage 5 to grind levels? I watched a couple of 1cc runs of Gaiapolis and both used the exploit, I don't think the game is beatable if you don't do this.

I managed to reach stage 8 without grinding but at that point a single hit from the blue-armored enemies would take 2 and a half lifebars from me, that's massive. If you're leveled enough you don't lose even half a bar.

[Randorama]

Did you use the exploit in stage 5 to grind levels? I watched a couple of 1cc runs of Gaiapolis and both used the exploit, I don't think the game is beatable if you don't do this.

I managed to reach stage 8 without grinding but at that point a single hit from the blue-armored enemies would take 2 and a half lifebars from me, that's massive. If you're leveled enough you don't lose even half a bar.

Of course I did, as the game really revolves around being able to take little damage from the hits of the blue and the crimson guys. That's what I was mentioning about Konami games: they can be even easy, provided that you know how to abuse the given engine at hand. In retrospective, I am pretty sure that I beat TMNT because I exploited one or two moves ad nauseam. I was a kiddo, so I found it fun, but these days I don't think I would enjoy it, at all.

[Hagane]

I too used to be a huge fan of TMNT as a kid, but I can't stand it now, or any Konami beat'em up for that matter. Capcom games are so vastly superior that I can't go back to them.

[Skykid]

I actually 1-CC'ed several (but not all) of Konami's beat'em up/action games, so I would say that their titles revolved around exploiting key weaknesses of the engine, or any progress would be impossible.

That's exactly how TMNT appears to be from the runs I've seen. Not exactly forthcoming. All I know is I used to be able to get to stage 3 rarely as a kid, and that was about my lot.

Konami beat em ups aren't all cheap though. Violent Storm seems fine to me, and apart from the nasty boss rush at the end, Vendetta seems perfectly reasonable too.

[Randorama]

Hold on a second: what about Combattribes and Karate Blazers? Crappy titles, I know, but anyone who knows a 1-CC video for each of them? Those were really Midway-style quarter munchers!

@Skykid: Violent Storm has a dumb, very cheap final boss, while Vendetta requires some practice, but is really 1-CC'able. The extra stage in Crime Fighters was harder, for instance.

I have been playing Konami titles, of late, and I think that they had serious problems in understanding the notion of "balanced". They produced few titles that did not revolve around cheap exploits (Surprise attack comes to mind, too). Meh, Konami.

[Skykid]

Love Surprise Attack. Aliens, Sunsetriders and Mystic Warriors are also totally 1ccable. But these aren't beat em ups, so we're off the beaten track.

What other Konami beat em ups are there? Did they do Asterix?

Batman Returns SFC is pretty cheap in places.

[Leandro]

Anyone who thinks Final Fight's last two stages weren't designed to squeeze the living hell out of the average punter's pocket doesn't have all their dogs barking. Doesn't ruin the game, just dulls its shine slightly.

Anyone here agree with this? There are lots, lots of people who can't clear this game and yet they don't give this kind of excuse. Specially in a game where you have the possibility to use more ways than one to overcome the toughest moments, where you are not just confined to cheap exploits to progress.

I know there are some people in this forum who can 1cc the game or get to close to it, I just wanted to know if they also feel the last two stages dull the game's shine.

[trap15]

Hold on a second: what about Combatribes and Karate Blazers? Crappy titles, I know, but anyone who knows a 1-CC video for each of them? Those were really Midway-style quarter munchers!

Combatribes owns. One of my personal favorites, even. The US version is actually easier, as it throws popcorn enemies at you during boss fights, which you can use to hit the boss without getting too close. I get the feeling that the JP version actually can't be 1CC'd though, I've never seen a JP version 1CC. I was practicing against one of the bosses, and I could not for the life of me find a strat to beat the boss without either dying or running out of time.

US version 1CC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nvfNE8dhSg

[Ruldra]

Anyone who thinks Final Fight's last two stages weren't designed to squeeze the living hell out of the average punter's pocket doesn't have all their dogs barking. Doesn't ruin the game, just dulls its shine slightly.

Anyone here agree with this? There are lots, lots of people who can't clear this game and yet they don't give this kind of excuse. Specially in a game where you have the possibility to use more ways than one to overcome the toughest moments, where you are not just confined to cheap exploits to progress.

I know there are some people in this forum who can 1cc the game or get to close to it, I just wanted to know if they also feel the last two stages dull the game's shine.

The latter half of stage 5 is actually my favorite part of the game

Stages 5 and 6 are perfectly manageable with the usual tactics, but because they're very long and the difficulty ramps up quite a lot, it takes way more time to learn them. But they're still doable, not like a quarter-muncher at all.

The last scene before the final boss can go to hell though. The game throws every enemy in the game at you at once, that part always get me.

[Skykid]

Anyone who thinks Final Fight's last two stages weren't designed to squeeze the living hell out of the average punter's pocket doesn't have all their dogs barking. Doesn't ruin the game, just dulls its shine slightly.

Anyone here agree with this? There are lots, lots of people who can't clear this game and yet they don't give this kind of excuse. Specially in a game where you have the possibility to use more ways than one to overcome the toughest moments, where you are not just confined to cheap exploits to progress.

I know there are some people in this forum who can 1cc the game or get to close to it, I just wanted to know if they also feel the last two stages dull the game's shine.

That's my opinion from playing the game until it's worn out. Everything after Rolento goes downhill. Believe me, I harbour the same love and nostalgia for Final Fight as everyone else, but the last two stages have none of the variety of the previous, relying solely on repeated backgrounds and enemies to prolong quarter-feeding like few other belt scrollers I've encountered. I've watched crowd control vids and many superplays and gave up on the 1cc eventually. Too trying and too boring - I don't feel like Capcom are giving the player anything at that point except the squeeze, when previously we had nightclubs, wrestling matches, underground fight rings, subway cars, flaming gangways and high-rise elevators. Piling on bodies just to rinse the kid's last coins becomes very obvious at a certain point, and for me, yep, dulls its shine.

Controversial, but I stand by it.

[boagman]

Anyone who thinks Final Fight's last two stages weren't designed to squeeze the living hell out of the average punter's pocket doesn't have all their dogs barking. Doesn't ruin the game, just dulls its shine slightly.

Anyone here agree with this? There are lots, lots of people who can't clear this game and yet they don't give this kind of excuse. Specially in a game where you have the possibility to use more ways than one to overcome the toughest moments, where you are not just confined to cheap exploits to progress.

I know there are some people in this forum who can 1cc the game or get to close to it, I just wanted to know if they also feel the last two stages dull the game's shine.

That's my opinion from playing the game until it's worn out. Everything after Rolento goes downhill. Believe me, I harbour the same love and nostalgia for Final Fight as everyone else, but the last two stages have none of the variety of the previous, relying solely on repeated backgrounds and enemies to prolong quarter-feeding like few other belt scrollers I've encountered. I've watched crowd control vids and many superplays and gave up on the 1cc eventually. Too trying and too boring - I don't feel like Capcom are giving the player anything at that point except the squeeze, when previously we had nightclubs, wrestling matches, underground fight rings, subway cars, flaming gangways and high-rise elevators. Piling on bodies just to rinse the kid's last coins becomes very obvious at a certain point, and for me, yep, dulls its shine.

Controversial, but I stand by it.

I don't think you're wrong, and I greatly agree with your "too boring" argument. It does seem a bit "tacked on", if you will. And to be fair to you: the game having its shine dulled does not mean *at all* that the game's shine is erased or non-evident. Just a bit dulled at the end is all. It's still a pretty sharp game which controls quite well.

[Skykid]

▲ I'd go as far as to say FF controls incredibly. A poster child for perfect collision code and weight, and still better in this regard than most that came after.

[Ed Oscuro]

They produced few titles that did not revolve around cheap exploits (Surprise attack comes to mind, too).

What's the exploit there?

I did notice that the game has some weird hitboxes and some enemies can't hit you when you go into different poses (lever up or down), but it is a Rolling Thunder-alike at its core, but with that rather extraneous flying item (man, now there's one thing I don't like - games that give the player awesome powers but then penalize you for using them - Terra Cresta did this right way back in the day, why couldn't Konami?). Many of the stages are quite fine though.

Surprise Attack and Mystic Warriors aren't beat-em-ups though (let alone Sunset Riders). Maybe Bucky O' Hare is one.

[Drum]

Bucky O'Hare is not one. It's closer to something like Aliens or NARC.

[Ed Oscuro]

I remembered that he has a gun but didn't recall if it was a special move or what.

[Drum]

Guns out the wazoo.

[Sinful]

Now let me link to this controversial article:

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

Yes, it's icycalm's article. Let's not start talking about the person but lets talk a little about this article. There's a part where it stated "Why are arcade games so good?"

No, let's talk about the person! This, Icycalm fellow, is like my new hero or something? As it recently clued in to me that Arcade games are better then console games while really getting into the Gradius series just a bit ago and trying them all. And yeah, the top Gradius games without a doubt are Gradius 1-4 Arcade only. Not even Gradius Gaiden is better then any of those 4. (Don't know much about V, but that was supposed to be an Arcade too, + it seem legit?). So now I too see that Arcade games are easily better then console games.

And while recently I've adopted to stop continuing in STGs after I start dieing too much. I'm now considering cutting that down to only one credit even, after this article? Or at least work toward that goal with say, 4 continues max, just like some console ports of Arcade games. Until I get there. Cause man, some games I don't realize how much I love unti it's too late. So best assume every game could end up my fave and get the most out of them.

[Ex_Mosquito]

I can 1cc FinalFight, here's my thoughts. I don't feel by stage 5/6 the game dulls. Sure, the same basic gameplay is there but with different backgrounds but that's no different to the previous levels (and it has the best soundtrack in the game!) Level 5 is perfectly manageable. The game throws about 5+ max energy steaks at you for gods sake! It's no harder than level 4 imo. I'll agree that the last stage can be a bit unfair. The energy drought from the start of the stage up until oil barrel section on the rooftop is a LONG time to go without energy. But after that it's plain sailing pretty much. Well until the insane last wave just before the last boss, but with a life in stock that can be managed with smart grouping.

Final fight is a strange one. I think the element that makes it so tricky is all down to the recovery speeds of a knocked down enemy. For example: The blue grunts take the longest to get up, the punks a little quicker, Andre quicker still and knifemen the fastest. When all these enemy types are mixed together all with different attack priorities and recovery speeds, causes everything to thrown out of sync. Even more so after 5+ enemies all fall at the same time after a melee attack or a flying kick.

It's a very well designed game when you think about it. It feel like no enemy is just randomly placed in an attack wave, they feel cleverly crafted. I believe the different attack waves and enemy types have a specific idea/challenge about them. For example a scenario could go: 3 knifemen at once = easy to handle. One full knockdown and their recovery times are synced, easy to handle. Take a knifemen out and put in a single less threatening blue grunt in and the whole situation is a lot harder to handle, everything is out of sync. This is why the opening section on stage 3 is so tough. It's just a shitload of different speed recovering grunts and a single Andre, but because everything is out of sync and they're all recovering at different speeds it's bloody chaos!

To me the game feels like waves of puzzles, each requiring its own clever strategy and solution.

[Leandro]

Thanks for your input, I also feel stage 5 is not hard compared to stage 4, and it has my favorite piece of music in the game, that was later reused by Capcom in Street Fighter Alpha 2.

[Skykid]

I can 1cc FinalFight, here's my thoughts. I don't feel by stage 5/6 the game dulls. Sure, the same basic gameplay is there but with different backgrounds but that's no different to the previous levels (and it has the best soundtrack in the game!) Level 5 is perfectly manageable. The game throws about 5+ max energy steaks at you for gods sake! It's no harder than level 4 imo. I'll agree that the last stage can be a bit unfair. The energy drought from the start of the stage up until oil barrel section on the rooftop is a LONG time to go without energy. But after that it's plain sailing pretty much. Well until the insane last wave just before the last boss, but with a life in stock that can be managed with smart grouping.

Final fight is a strange one. I think the element that makes it so tricky is all down to the recovery speeds of a knocked down enemy. For example: The blue grunts take the longest to get up, the punks a little quicker, Andre quicker still and knifemen the fastest. When all these enemy types are mixed together all with different attack priorities and recovery speeds, causes everything to thrown out of sync. Even more so after 5+ enemies all fall at the same time after a melee attack or a flying kick.

It's a very well designed game when you think about it. It feel like no enemy is just randomly placed in an attack wave, they feel cleverly crafted. I believe the different attack waves and enemy types have a specific idea/challenge about them. For example a scenario could go: 3 knifemen at once = easy to handle. One full knockdown and their recovery times are synced, easy to handle. Take a knifemen out and put in a single less threatening blue grunt in and the whole situation is a lot harder to handle, everything is out of sync. This is why the opening section on stage 3 is so tough. It's just a shitload of different speed recovering grunts and a single Andre, but because everything is out of sync and they're all recovering at different speeds it's bloody chaos!

To me the game feels like waves of puzzles, each requiring its own clever strategy and solution.

Really good input, thanks for this. I totally get what you mean about syncing enemies, as soon as the rhythm goes out it can murder you. I find it a lot more demanding in this respect than many other games in the genre. May I just pick your brains a little - it's not often you find FF 1cc'ers to quiz.

- How many hours approx did it take you to get the clear?
- How difficult a clear do you think FF is versus other scrolling beat-em-ups?
- Objectively, do you think the structure of stage 5 & 6 were designed around squeezing credits from the consumer, or do you think it's a fairly balanced game throughout?

I've beaten stage 4 but never 5 on a credit. My enemy management isn't good enough, because I always get overwhelmed. I feel as though the game goes from having graphical/structural variation in stages 1 through 4 that can be learned in sections, to throwing a huge number of enemies onscreen together in 5 & 6 in a repetitive format - kind of like a kumite test. Normally I fail to make the distance between health items, or something just goes wrong with the sync you were talking about. Either way, it tired me out and I lost the enthusiasm for a 1cc. I suppose I found that disappointing because, well it's FF, there's so much amazing about it.

[Ruldra]

I've beaten stage 4 but never 5 on a credit. My enemy management isn't good enough, because I always get overwhelmed. I feel as though the game goes from having graphical/structural variation in stages 1 through 4 that can be learned in sections, to throwing a huge number of enemies onscreen together in 5 & 6 in a repetitive format - kind of like a kumite test.

Even though stage 5 is just a huge long walk, you can still divide and learn it in sections.

- You have the beginning of the level up until the fight with the fat guys, then health pickups (1st checkpoint).
- Then the fight with Andores and a few more enemies later, health pickups from rolling barrels (2nd checkpoint).
- Then at this point you fight the girls and the knifemen. You need to walk slowly and only advance after you kill everybody on the screen. Then the bathroom stalls with the blocking guys, then health pickup (3rd checkpoint).
- Badass music starts playing! Keep the enemies grouped together and avoid getting surrounded. Then, health pickup, then the massive knifemen swarm. Toughest part of the level right here. Then another health pickup (4th checkpoint).
- Then finally the home stretch to the boss.

I could record a run of this level with Cody if you wish and show how I do it. It's not really hard once you learn how to do it (the boss still gives me trouble though).

[Hagane]

Final Fight's difficulty comes mostly from how limited it is. You can't even run so repositioning is hard, there are no special attacks so your only way to get out of tough situations is the A+B desperation move, throw and item-get invincibility are extremely short so they aren't as useful as defensive options, even wakeup invincibility is very short so one knockdown pretty much forces you to A+B your way out or die lynched...

[Skykid]

Thanks Ruldra/Hagane.

Yep, I tried to get through it in waves, but I found people management so difficult on that one before any health-ups - and I'd usually only scrape into stage 5 if I made it, so usually on my last life.
The boss of that stage I could never properly figure out the pattern. I remember consulting a YT vid and being unable to emulate it.

Final Fight's difficulty comes mostly from how limited it is. You can't even run so repositioning is hard, there are no special attacks so your only way to get out of tough situations is the A+B desperation move, throw and item-get invincibility are extremely short so they aren't as useful as defensive options, even wakeup invincibility is very short so one knockdown pretty much forces you to A+B your way out or die lynched...

^ Agreed.

[Ex_Mosquito]

No worries Skykid I'll try and answer those questions. I'm not an uber Final Fight or Capcom scrolling fighter expert mind, I've only ever used Haggar and I've never given the other Capcom scrollers more than a few credits. They're a bit long winded for my tastes.

- How many hours approx did it take you to get the clear?
Back in the day I didn't play it that much, I was more into other games at the time. I'd play it now and again in my local Taxi rank but I never got that far. I played it maybe 10 times back in 89 and early/mid 90's. I always admired people who could play it, though. There was one kid maybe 15years old back in 1990 who could 1cc it every time but the life extends were set that in a full run you could get 5 extra life's rather than default +1 extra life. To be fair he did have 3/4 lives in stock when he completed it. I started playing it again in about 97' when I got the Pcb from a local arcade dealer and I practiced it on and off on a supergun for a few months of casual play and I could 1cc it on the +5 extra lives default (extra life 100000 and every 200000) but never on the default +1. I didn't play the game for about 15 years then about 18months ago I decided I needed to get game done on default setting and about 2 weeks of practice after I managed it.

- How difficult a clear do you think FF is versus other scrolling beat-em-ups?
I'm not sure tbh, it's the only scrolling fighter I've tried to do. It's not my favourite genre, I find them a bit boring usually but there's something about Final Fight that clicked with me:Graphics, music, sound effects, arcade nostalgia..

- Objectively, do you think the structure of stage 5 & 6 were designed around squeezing credits from the consumer, or do you think it's a fairly balanced game throughout?
Stage 5 isn't that hard, the level throws so much energy at you that with careful play and a smart gameplan it's not that hard to replenish. Personally I find the energy drought on level 4 when you get a steak barrel just before you fight the 2 fat guys, up until the later part of the lift section. Tough! ;/
Also, the first section of level 6 up until the first steak is a bloody killer. Think about it, you're given 1 energy bar to fight 4 Andres, 4 fat men, 2 women, 2 knifemen, LOADS of grunts and 4 waves of firemen. It's by far the hardest part for me, it's pretty harsh.

I've beaten stage 4 but never 5 on a credit. My enemy management isn't good enough, because I always get overwhelmed. I feel as though the game goes from having graphical/structural variation in stages 1 through 4 that can be learned in sections, to throwing a huge number of enemies onscreen together in 5 & 6 in a repetitive format - kind of like a kumite test. Normally I fail to make the distance between health items, or something just goes wrong with the sync you were talking about. Either way, it tired me out and I lost the enthusiasm for a 1cc. I suppose I found that disappointing because, well it's FF, there's so much amazing about it.

I'm not sure what character you use but with Haggar there are a few techniques you use to make to the game a lot easier.

http://youtu.be/TM_s75JLwBg

I'll refer to my replay above to explain.

BACKBREAKER INVINCIBILITY: Haggar is invincible a few frames after a backbreaker. This can be used to your advantage to create an opening to attack one of the stronger enemies. For example if Andre was to punch me during or after the backbreaker or a someone throws a knife Haggar won't take a hit. This strat is vital playing Haggar.
@3:19 - 29:50


LOOPING INVINCIBLE BACKBREAKER COMBO: In certain situations you can loop enemies back and forth without taking any damage. I'm not sure if you know but with all 3 of the cast if you hold 'up' before the last hit of a combo, instead of doing the usual knockdown attack the character will do their throw in the opposite direction. Using this with the invincibility of the backbreaker you can create a looping combo making a seemingly tricky combination of enemies way way more manageable. It doesn't work with every combination of enemy but with a Knifeman and an Andre or multiple Andre, as soon as you get that loop going there's very little chance of getting hit.
@4:40 - 10:35 - 35:07


BACKWARDS JUMPSPLASH CROWD CONTROL: this strat is mega useful for pulling in stray enemies and controlling the screen and grouping enemies together.
@3:12 - 12:46

NOTES: Jumping backwards is the quickest move to scroll the screen. This can be used to skip enemy waves, most useful being at the start of stage 1 and 5.
@19:00
Also in tricky sections try to limit the amount of enemies that come on screen to make it more manageable. Use the background gfx as a consistent marker.
For example. @22:22 - 30:40 - 35:30 - 4:00

Hope this help.
Mark.

[Pretas]

I think Sega's Alien Storm may be a quarter muncher. The sidescrolling sections are fair enough, but then they expect you to clear some very frantic and cluttered first-person gun shooting segments with only a joystick. I did learn that the cursor moves faster when you're not firing, at least.

[Skykid]

Ex_Mosquito, a couple of weeks isn't much for Final Fight, that's pretty good - although I don't know how many hours that is (and appreciate you already knew the ropes from clearing it in '97). Still kind of curious how many hours it might be, but I suppose it doesn't matter too much. Maybe I let the game stamp out my enthusiasm too quickly.

- Objectively, do you think the structure of stage 5 & 6 were designed around squeezing credits from the consumer, or do you think it's a fairly balanced game throughout?
Stage 5 isn't that hard, the level throws so much energy at you that with careful play and a smart gameplan it's not that hard to replenish. Personally I find the energy drought on level 4 when you get a steak barrel just before you fight the 2 fat guys, up until the later part of the lift section. Tough! ;/
Also, the first section of level 6 up until the first steak is a bloody killer. Think about it, you're given 1 energy bar to fight 4 Andres, 4 fat men, 2 women, 2 knifemen, LOADS of grunts and 4 waves of firemen. It's by far the hardest part for me, it's pretty harsh.

Not sure if that's a yes or no!

I'm not sure what character you use but with Haggar there are a few techniques you use to make to the game a lot easier.

I should have mentioned I play Guy... and I have a feeling that's my mistake. I always played him in the arcade as a kid, so I tend to feel most comfortable with that character. But superplays seem to suggest Cody and Haggar are better equipped somehow.

http://youtu.be/TM_s75JLwBg

I'll refer to my replay above to explain.

BACKBREAKER INVINCIBILITY: Haggar is invincible a few frames after a backbreaker. This can be used to your advantage to create an opening to attack one of the stronger enemies. For example if Andre was to punch me during or after the backbreaker or a someone throws a knife Haggar won't take a hit. This strat is vital playing Haggar.
@3:19 - 29:50


LOOPING INVINCIBLE BACKBREAKER COMBO: In certain situations you can loop enemies back and forth without taking any damage. I'm not sure if you know but with all 3 of the cast if you hold 'up' before the last hit of a combo, instead of doing the usual knockdown attack the character will do their throw in the opposite direction. Using this with the invincibility of the backbreaker you can create a looping combo making a seemingly tricky combination of enemies way way more manageable. It doesn't work with every combination of enemy but with a Knifeman and an Andre or multiple Andre, as soon as you get that loop going there's very little chance of getting hit.
@4:40 - 10:35 - 35:07


BACKWARDS JUMPSPLASH CROWD CONTROL: this strat is mega useful for pulling in stray enemies and controlling the screen and grouping enemies together.
@3:12 - 12:46

NOTES: Jumping backwards is the quickest move to scroll the screen. This can be used to skip enemy waves, most useful being at the start of stage 1 and 5.
@19:00
Also in tricky sections try to limit the amount of enemies that come on screen to make it more manageable. Use the background gfx as a consistent marker.
For example. @22:22 - 30:40 - 35:30 - 4:00

Hope this help.
Mark.

Amazing run! Thanks so much for the timestamps. Those invincible backbreaker frames are timed to always be done in the same place to avoid certain attacks? You're damn quick if so. I know about the hold up to throw after a combo, but I'm not familiar with Haggar and it's good to see his management techniques. The 35:07 invincible backbreaker loop is a neat trick, Haggar seems to be good for this as he doesn't throw the characters too far after performing the move - Guy throws them across the screen. I found it interesting how you use the breakout as an opening strategy sometimes, since normally I save that for when they're pouncing on me like a pack of wolves.

[Ruldra]

Ex_Mosquito, a couple of weeks isn't much for Final Fight, that's pretty good - although I don't know how many hours that is (and appreciate you already knew the ropes from clearing it in '97). Still kind of curious how many hours it might be, but I suppose it doesn't matter too much. Maybe I let the game stamp out my enthusiasm too quickly.

Well if you just want a reference, I managed to 2cc FF and I have 60 hours clocked in. However, for a long time I didn't "get" the game and I was just fucking around. It was only around the 20-hour mark when I finally figured things out and started to progress.

Normally I take around 20-30 hours to beat a game. FF is harder than the typical beat-em-up so it's taking more for me.

I should have mentioned I play Guy... and I have a feeling that's my mistake. I always played him in the arcade as a kid, so I tend to feel most comfortable with that character. But superplays seem to suggest Cody and Haggar are better equipped somehow.

I used to play as Guy too, but once I switched to Cody I never looked back, he's SO powerful with the knife. Pick it up and attack when you see the knife flashing to stab rather than throw. It does absurd damage, it's unblockable and comes out really fast. I believe Cody takes less damage than Guy too.

Give him a try, his playstyle is not that different from Guy.

And this tip in particular is invaluable for crowd control when you're using Guy or Cody:

I'm not sure if you know but with all 3 of the cast if you hold 'up' before the last hit of a combo, instead of doing the usual knockdown attack the character will do their throw in the opposite direction.