What do you think are the best beat 'em ups?

[Ruldra]

Kaiser managed to 1cc Armored Warriors with Fordy (link). He deserves major props for that.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Those last few bosses are completely fucking bonkers. O_o

edit: this guy has deathless runs uploaded for all four characters! Apparently he's got a friend who's seriously in love with the game.

[professor ganson]

Streets of Rage 3

[Drum]

I noticed nobody has mentioned Shadow Force. I've played it enough to say that I like it, but it's so rarely referred to in these discussions that I'm assuming there's some glaring flaw? It has so many appealing qualities (like the ludicrous number of moves) that I'd have thought it would get more love.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

General:

do you guys find Battle circuit difficult? I 1-CC'ed with some good amount of practice. I don't see myself clearing any of the other Capcom fighters except for The Punisher and Aliens vs Predator. In particular, Armored Warriors always made me feel like an inept. And then, the controversial question: what do you think about Double Dragon II? I like it, as it actually has a more dynamic fighting system than the first chapter, although not even one third of the charm.

@BIL and IlPalazzo: ah, I thought that I was missing something, cheers.

EDIT: I really like the original Ninja Gaiden, and you should too. Just played it again and, with some practice, it could be a game I could 1-CC at any time, dammit.

From my experience, Battle Circuit is probably on the easier end of Capcom's arcade beat-em-ups, since enemies are less numerous and more passive than they were in its predecessors (and you have Green, who can heal). A big part of what makes these games challenging is the endurance factor of having to do crowd control on lots of enemies for long periods of time, but the way Battle Circuit is paced, standard enemy groups are kind of downplayed in favor of varied bosses and subbosses. I'm not saying that the game is easy - 1ccing it is still a pretty big challenge with any character - but I think only The Punisher is easier.

On that note, I always felt like Final Fight was the hardest. Armored Warriors seemed really hard too, but I barely played it because I didn't like how movement and attacking felt (although I may have to go back and try it after watching some videos).

Ok, I was about to throw the PC out of the window, after playing []Armored Warriors[/i]. I completely agree, Hagane: the level of unforgiveness borders on the irrational, as it seems that virtually any mistake at any point may cost you a life. I wonder who playtested this, back in the day...

Also, I actually wanted to say: AVP is not hard, although the final boss is a bit tricky (but doable). I have the same opinion on Battle Circuit, Roo, as I think that the game only gets difficult from Zipangu onwards (or whatever the samurai boss is called). I recall that both him and the last boss require a specific use of one-two attacks, everything else will simply not work.

I agree that Zipang can be a huge pain, but I think he's only really a major threat to Green, since Zipang's shield and grab escape sort of nullify most of Green's usual offensive options. Personally I think Blue, Silver, and Pink can handle him fairly easily (although the final two bosses are really tough with any character).

[Hagane]

Drum:

I liked its large movesets, but enemies are rather scarce... as far as I've played I always faced only two or three enemies at once.

[Imhotep]

on a side note, I don't fully like the term "belt scroller", although it's still better than the very general sounding "scrolling beat 'em up" or the like.

the scrolling playfield aspect is not a distinctive aspect of the gameplay, I can well imagine an arena-based game with the same gameplay fully intact.

The perspective and movement are the defining traits for sure. Double Dragon clearly made enough of an impact that its scrolling playfields became the industry standard, and I guess the accepted term for these games followed suit. There's probably a parallel to Xevious and its effect on the "scrolling shooter" genre here, too.

As you explain it yourself, the scrolling aspect is genre-non-specific.

I noticed nobody has mentioned Shadow Force. I've played it enough to say that I like it, but it's so rarely referred to in these discussions that I'm assuming there's some glaring flaw? It has so many appealing qualities (like the ludicrous number of moves) that I'd have thought it would get more love.

What I don't like about Shadow Force is that it's actually a vs. 1 enemy game disguised as a belt fighter. Other opponents will wait patiently for their turn when you're busy fighting a comrade.
It's trying to bring the genre closer to Street Fighter, but it cuts the nerve of the genre with this, as crowd control / managing many opponents at once is an integral part of the gameplay experience imo.
I still find it ambitious and fascinating, just not very fun to play.

[BIL]

Just to clarify, by "perspective and movement" I mean The Belt and confinement within it to eight-way 2D movement. Scrolling is indeed completely irrelevant. Kunio and Dynamite Deka fit despite their arena setups, just like Double Dragon and Final Fight. Spartan X doesn't fit (no belt) and Dynamite Deka 2 doesn't either (full 3D movement).

[Kaiser]

Kaiser managed to 1cc Armored Warriors with Fordy (link). He deserves major props for that.

I remember putting in about 80 hours, making it to stage 6 boss or was it beginning of stage 7 legimitately with no exploits, but ultimately I was frustrated and quit the game for a while, but then I remembered that the jet legs air attack could be used for safe attacks. THEN I REALISED HOW BROKEN IT WAS and decided to just shove the exploit into the game's face, thus the 1cc occured. Sure there are better replays but at the time I WAS SO BADLY frustrated I was ready to quit the game permamently, then I found out the jet air attack exploit by myself (didn't see anyone do it)

Oh and by the way, Rando is right about the level of difficulty, from stage 5 to the final boss, enemies tend to deal 50%/75% damage per HIT! And final boss in his second form has an INSTANTKILL laser attack (the huge red warm laser aka ??? attack).

[Sinful]

Streets of Rage series kinda ruined the genre for me as i can't find amything near as good a these games. Part 3 is my fave, followed by 2 then 1.

Golden Axe 1 for Arcade (don't like the Genesis version) is suprisingly very fun. Love it's theme too.

Out of the Final Fight games, only the Arcade is good. The SNES Trilogy totally sucks cause they made the spirtes way too big that they can't fit more then 3 enemies on screen (4 sometimes in part 3 where they have this one enemy type that use smaller sprite size. And the Sega CD port has a max of 4). This is why the SoR series murder the SNES FF Trilogy as the SoR game can fit so many freaking enemies on screen at once. And the sprites don't even look small either, but nice big and very detailed... love the colours too.

Love TMNT 3 for NES back in the day when I bought it brand new. Still do for memories and background levels/artword/etc rock in this game. Only too bad only 3 enemies limit though & gameplay is kind of basic... I like the original Konami Arcade game, but need to play it more to know for sure? But nostalgic memories & being turtle fan seals the deal. Not crazy about TMNT in Time at all, though. Wish i bought the remake when I had the chance.


Have yet to get into D&D and the Sega Saturn Treasure beat 'em up (of the later which I have for XBLA. Just need to play it now). I should buy D&D soon too...

[Obiwanshinobi]

+1 for the original Dynamite Deka being a beltscroller, more than anything else... the sequels (and Zombie Revenge) definitely enter general 3D action territory with their free movement, but the original is pretty much a beltscroller via Virtua Fighter.

I'm not buying the Virtua Fighter bit. Dudes in VF auto-face each other. Do three buttons make both games that alike?

[BIL]

The original Dynamite Deka's movelist, PPK inputs and juggle physics are to Virtua Fighter as later CPS2 beltscrollers' QCFs and two-in-ones are to Street Fighter II. Ever kickflipped a guy clean off the ground before keeping his flailing body aloft on a PPPK barrage input late enough to register but not so late as to let him hit the floor first? That's early VF and Deka's common ground summarised. Of course with VF being a fighter and Deka a beltscroller the latter makes adaptations, like PKJ instead of PKG and free bidirectional stance instead of autofacing, but that's my point - it appropriated things into a different game type.

[apatheticTurd]

Violent Storm and the (unbutchered) Undercover Cops.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

A couple of hours ago I managed a proper 1cc on Battle Circuit. It's a pretty sloppy run, and I used Green's healing ability a lot, but here's the recording.

http://www.twitch.tv/sirilpalazzo/c/3054793

[Mortificator]

Nice work! Audrey II would be proud.

[Skykid]

I have an affection for a few.

Streets of Rage 2, the game that continues to instruct the industry as to why good soundtracks are so critical to gaming.

Love the look and feel of Undercover Cops to death, nothing quite like engine oil Irem grime with massive sprites, but crikey, the game is hard, hard, hard.

Vendetta/Crime Fighters 2 and Violent Storm I'd likely lump together in a nice cand- coloured batter-em-up category.

Denjin Makai 1 & 2 for their daring to mix it up, esp. 2's flamboyant combo-ing and supersized roster.

Final Fight is guilty in its latter third of simply milking for coins, but it's the quintessential example in of perfect collision detection coding and supremely enjoyable until you hit the grind of the last two stages.

Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is great, I prefer it to The Punisher simply because the subject matter is more varied and interesting.

AVP is a little on the long side, but there's so much graphical joy and pure brilliance in the Predator combos it's some kind of arcade jewel.

And Double Dragon, of course, where there's never been anything as satisfying as pounding someone in the face with your kneecap. Great soundtrack, superb slo-mo solidity, short and sweet.

[BIL]

And Double Dragon, of course, where there's never been anything as satisfying as pounding someone in the face with your kneecap. Great soundtrack, superb slo-mo solidity, short and sweet.

The only complaint I have about Double Dragon Advance, besides it being on the GBA and not the MVS, PS1 or Saturn circa 1997, is that it cherry-picked The Combatribes' diving belly/spine stomp (and even lets you chain the former directly into Kunio's mounted face punching), but not its "grab fistful of hair -> smash face into pavement repeatedly" attack for prone enemies. I used to think Ebinuma was avoiding overly thuggish attacks with the more overt focus on JKD, but c'mon. Technos always put the beating in beat 'em up, in a way stuff like Final Fight lost. Having to batter enemies until they're visibly doubled over in agony before you can grab them, punches and kicks making differing impacts on bodies, enemies being less able to escape grapples as injuries and exhaustion set in, and all of the above applying to you as well... great stuff.

DDA's still one hell of a game though, even with it being confined to the minimum GBA ROM size. Hey Abobo, remember this happening to you in 1987? Bahahaha - GET VIOLENCE (・｀ω´・)

[Randorama]

Ok, thantks to Hagane I found this thread again (ahem, thank you, I wonder why I could not find it again...).

I have been playing Armored Warriors[ after having a look at the videos, and I have been hitting the fifth/sixth stage regularly. The game is way less difficult than it seems, with the right components and some simple exploits. I still find the game deeply unbalanced, though.

Oh, and what about Crime fighters I remember that this one was much like Double Dragon: one attack can solve any situation, but which one?

[system11]

How did I miss this thread for so long? I like this genre as much as I like shmups. Here are some favourites, they are in no particular order.

Shadow Warriors (aka Ninja Gaiden) - the TRUE Ninja Gaiden by the way NES-kiddies. Loads of style and very well drawn graphics, interesting moves, brilliant music, and lots of interaction with the background.

Double Dragon - can't not be in here, first 1CC of an arcade game for me. It's just a classic pioneer of the genre, although not without technical issues. Fun fact - some of the bootleg PCBs have less slowdown.

Crime Fighters - more awesome music and graphics, and there's something really raw about the feel of this one, I absolutely love it. Avoid the 4 player US version with the life counter, it's ruined.

Violent Storm - Konami decided to do Final Fight, and they did a really amazing job of it. Just play it, they even managed to squeeze in some vocal soundtracks and lots of background detail and animations.

Final Fight - the daddy of all Capcom fighters and many clones, still plays brilliantly and actually feels a bit less cheap than some of the others.

Knights Of The Round - variation of the Capcom theme with weapon based combat, some of their best visuals in here, great music as always and some awesome bosses, but if you don't learn to block you're going to get hosed by some of them.

The Punisher - the sheer amount of brutality makes this one notable, although it does get a little repetitive after a while.

Warriors Of Fate - probably the best 3 Kingdoms related beatemup, I especially like this for the character with lots of grapple attacks.

Golden Axe - the best one Sega made, nothing really came close to be honest after this, including the sequel. There's something timeless about the enemies and setting, it really felt like going on a journey somewhere.

Night Slashers - the best Data East managed, and it takes the whole zombie theme and plays it just right, including a Goblin inspired rock-horror soundtrack.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Night Slashers X - OpenBOR remake for PC, the original Xbox and PSP - is good. Extra-gory on PC and Xbox.

[Hagane]

Been playing Cadillacs and Dinosaurs for the 1CC these last few days. My opinion on it hasn't changed a bit: extremely dry and simple. Full walkthrough: pick Mustapha, do running dropkicks. Most broken character in a Capcom beat'em up. His dropkick does tons of damage, covers a lot of ground, is safe and pretty much nothing can stop it if you do it early. For the bosses, kick them out of the screen, divekick away to reposition (this is very very useful by the way, very safe way to change your position), wait till they try to get in the screen again, dropkick, repeat. Works for the first five bosses at the very least. The sixth seems to be rather easy too.

[coturnixx]

Warriors Of Fate - probably the best 3 Kingdoms related beatemup, I especially like this for the character with lots of grapple attacks.

Oh my, how many times i´ve been beaten to a pulp because the stupid fool decided to start biting at enemies. How much i hate that, but still is my favourite character Blowing enemies to pieces with your fists=WIN. Double win on bosses, will you blow his chest or "just" decapitate him ?

I´m hopeless at the bonus game tho, couldn´t do shit when i was on keyboard, and can´t do shit now with an arcade stick.

[Skykid]

Been playing Cadillacs and Dinosaurs for the 1CC these last few days. My opinion on it hasn't changed a bit: extremely dry and simple. Full walkthrough: pick Mustapha, do running dropkicks. Most broken character in a Capcom beat'em up. His dropkick does tons of damage, covers a lot of ground, is safe and pretty much nothing can stop it if you do it early. For the bosses, kick them out of the screen, divekick away to reposition (this is very very useful by the way, very safe way to change your position), wait till they try to get in the screen again, dropkick, repeat. Works for the first five bosses at the very least. The sixth seems to be rather easy too.

Oh is that who you're meant to play as? I always used the other guy.

Got to ask though, isn't any game going to dry if you use the same move on repeat? This is a prob I find with the entire genre: it often pays far more to stick to repetitive exploits than use the repertoire on offer.

Perhaps this is what Ed meant when he suggested the genre isn't very intuitive.

[1up]

3 games emidiately comes to mind:
The King of dragons, better than knights of the Round as it has more character variety and better bosses, and not as advanced as the D&D games.

Final fight. Music and gameplay is very good.

Double dragon. Despite the slowdown, this game is a lot of fun, and the Music is excellent.

I know theres probably better games out there, CPS2, but I havent spent as much time with those, yet.

[Hagane]

Oh is that who you're meant to play as? I always used the other guy.

Got to ask though, isn't any game going to dry if you use the same move on repeat? This is a prob I find with the entire genre: it often pays far more to stick to repetitive exploits than use the repertoire on offer.

Perhaps this is what Ed meant when he suggested the genre isn't very intuitive.

Slide guy is good too, but not as good as Mustapha.

Game is dry because there's not much to do. If you don't do dash attash attacks, you only also have down, up attacks and basic chains. To combo a down, up attack you have to sorta trick the game by cancelling throw animations with it, otherwise you only have premade chains. Hitboxes are rather unbalanced so it's pretty easy to hit all enemies. This is not much of an exploit by the way, there just was not much thought in balancing the game. As I only want a quick 1CC, I'll use the best I can get.

[BIL]

Oh my, how many times i´ve been beaten to a pulp because the stupid fool decided to start biting at enemies. How much i hate that, but still is my favourite character Blowing enemies to pieces with your fists=WIN. Double win on bosses, will you blow his chest or "just" decapitate him ?

I miss the days when the Japanese didn't give one good fuck if anyone complained about decapitations and other manful fantasy turboviolence occurring left and right in their action games (thanks for making me require NTSCU copies/consoles for unmolested PS2 Shinobi, Biohazard 4 and Ninja Gaiden II -_- ). Booting bosses' heads clean off their shoulders with the green dude's flash kick never gets old. The first one looks like he can't believe WTF just happened to him. GOOOAAAL

[Drachenherz]

All this talk about beat em ups really wetted my interest in giving them a try. Found a racketboy article that suits this topic:

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/the-best ... eat-em-ups

[Hagane]

Some dubious picks and non belt scrollers, but covers most of what's worth playing. I didn't know about Dark Judgment, going to give it a try.

It's sad to see so few doujin games in the genre, but I guess doing so many sprites is too much work for a small studio.

[Drachenherz]

Yeah, not everything in the article would comply to the theme here at hand, but it's nice to have such a relatively compact overview, complete with pictures.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Night Slashers and The Punisher.