Lag on the XRGB-Mini

[Xan]

Yeah, this guy recommends limited range RGB for PS3 games FWIW: http://referencehometheater.com/2014/co ... s-limited/

[Fudoh]

There you go confusing me again - is it that limited on full doesn't work at all or simply that "the colors are off"

it works, but the black and white levels are off.

EDIT: Yikes. So apparently Limited (16-235) is the broadcast standard - Full expands the broadcast (16-235) over the (0-255) range to match the legacy (PC) RGB range. So "Full" isn't necessarily better than "Limited".

Limited is broadcast standard, since every digital broadcast signal is stored in YCbCr and here limited is the only choice. For RGB full range is the standard, since it's the old DVI standard. Limited RGB is a weird mix between the two, which shouldn't exist in the first place.

If you take *ANY* TV made in the last 10 years, it will fully support YCbCr and Full Range RGB, but not all of them will correctly display limited range RGB.

[FBX]

If there is any lag, it's gotta be something like a tenth of a second at best.

100ms lag is pretty bad actually...

Mini is about 20 to 24ms. Sony TVs in game/graphics mode are anywhere from 17ms (W95x) to 44ms (HX9xx) total lag depending upon the model (Leo Bodnar tested). Leo Bodnar is a conservative measure though as it's total display lag that includes pixel response.

I looked up my model Sony (which is pretty old by today's standards), and it looks like the total combined lag with the mini added is about 90ms, so I was pretty close in my guess. I suppose I should start thinking about getting a new set, though I plan on building a new PC this year. Perhaps next year I'll look into getting a faster-reaction display.

[12345]

[*]Neoya Wii2HDMI XRGB-mini: "COLOR: RGB 8BIT"[/list]

Thanks, now this DOES change quite a bit! Would you mind trying if your 9A65 would also give the same result?

if it makes any difference on the commonly known oversaturated mode.

Are you referring to the 480p + scanline issue? http://pms.hazard-city.de/mini480p.jpg ... haven't really spent any time reproducing this as I typically do not use scanlines on the XRGB-mini.

No, I'm talking about the wiki: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... deo_inputs

The default picture settings for component video are not great. If you find the picture colours look over-saturated, try the settings below:-

I'm not quoting the settings since they're wrong but I hope you get what I mean. If your XBOX for example looks less "cartoonish" through HDMI-->mini than through D-terminal-->mini this would prove that it might be better to go through HDMI in the first place and stay away from the other option.

[CaptainCommando]

Hi guys,
I would like your help and suggestions
I am one click before buying a framemeister. My monitor has 26ms lag. Will I be in trouble with the added lag of the mini? Most HD TVs have 60ms and people play PS4 or Xbox without knowing and they are happy. I have 2 14" BVM monitors but I am sick and tired to adjust brightness, contrast, video phase and video size all the time when changing pcbs for my Sigma Raijin supergun or changing retro consoles (Mega Drive, Snes etc).
Also I would like to mention a general problem with those old CRTs, geometry isn't straight all times at the edges of the picture which is ugly. They can become straight but it's very difficult to mess with Pin phase, Pin amp, Lower pin amp, Bow and some more. I have done it and they are straight on my monitors but I spent many hours experimenting. They can't match geometry of a digital signal though...

You experts what would you say about adding the mini option too to my setup. I will keep my CRTs in place ready of course and choose each time where to connect.
I have a Dell U2713H 27" wide color gamut which will be set to 1:1 1080p scaling with no lag
Does it worth the 400 euros?

Many thanks

[CobraKing]

Hi guys,
I would like your help and suggestions
I am one click before buying a framemeister. My monitor has 26ms lag. Will I be in trouble with the added lag of the mini? Most HD TVs have 60ms and people play PS4 or Xbox without knowing and they are happy. I have 2 14" BVM monitors but I am sick and tired to adjust brightness, contrast, video phase and video size all the time when changing pcbs for my Sigma Raijin supergun or changing retro consoles (Mega Drive, Snes etc).
Also I would like to mention a general problem with those old CRTs, geometry isn't straight all times at the edges of the picture which is ugly. They can become straight but it's very difficult to mess with Pin phase, Pin amp, Lower pin amp, Bow and some more. I have done it and they are straight on my monitors but I spent many hours experimenting. They can't match geometry of a digital signal though...

You experts what would you say about adding the mini option too to my setup. I will keep my CRTs in place ready of course and choose each time where to connect.
I have a Dell U2713H 27" wide color gamut which will be set to 1:1 1080p scaling with no lag
Does it worth the 400 euros?

Many thanks

You might want to take a look at Marq's OSSC which can do 720p upscaling on your monitor. Cheaper than the XRGB Mini and virtually no lag.

Edit: Fudoh co-signed my recommendation so there you go.

[Fudoh]

I would second that. I prefer 720p 4:4:4 from the OSSC over 1080p 4:2:2 from the FM.

The FM got superior 480i deinterlacing, but if that's not important to you, then the OSSC might be the better choice (even if you have to wait in line to get one).

[CaptainCommando]

Thanks guys,
I read everything about OSSC. My monitor, if compatible, will produce lag to upscale the 720p image to a 1080p image. So this way I will have monitor lag. If leave it to 720p without upscale the window will be small. There is a possibility though in case I eat the monitor's upscale lag anyway to let it upscale the 720p image to a 1440p image.

If the this 720p--->1440p lag is less or equal than FM 1080p ready image and leave the monitor with a 1080p window (no more upscale lag), then OSSC will be the better solution.

What do you think?

[Fudoh]

Your monitor doesn't add any lag when upscaling lower resolutions.

[CaptainCommando]

Your monitor doesn't add any lag when upscaling lower resolutions.

Then if it's only compatible with OSSC...

[Fudoh]

I think so far all of the Dells have been compatible.

[CaptainCommando]

I think so far all of the Dells have been compatible.

I subscribed in the waiting list for a OSSC.

Arcade boards, Megadrive and Snes what resolution do they use? Is it 240p?

[CobraKing]

I think so far all of the Dells have been compatible.

I subscribed in the waiting list for a OSSC.

Arcade boards, Megadrive and Snes what resolution do they use? Is it 240p?

Good stuff, just be patient with the mailing list and check periodically. A lot of people sign up on the mailing list then don't actually purchase, so you may end up with one of the units being made next month. The MD & SNES use 240p with only a handful of games being 480i. I don't know about arcade so I won't comment.

[Fudoh]

Most arcade stuff is 240p, yes. There are 24khz boards which output 384p. The OSSC will accept these and output 768p instead.

[CaptainCommando]

Most arcade stuff is 240p, yes. There are 24khz boards which output 384p. The OSSC will accept these and output 768p instead.

Do you know a board to output 24khz to see if I have one like this?

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it

[Fudoh]

Sega Model 2, Model 3. Some Midway boards (MKII I think).

[CaptainCommando]

Sega Model 2, Model 3. Some Midway boards (MKII I think).

I do have MK2 and UMK3 boards. So those play perfectly on OSSC but have issues on FM.
Both games are picky with brightness and contrast. They produce perfect image on one of my crts (the weaker quality BVM) but have brightness and contrast issues on my better quality BVM crt.

[Blair]

brightness and contrast issues on my better quality BVM crt.

I think I've heard that termination caps (on unused inputs?) help with brightness and contrast issues on BVM's, but that might not be your problem

[CaptainCommando]

brightness and contrast issues on my better quality BVM crt.

I think I've heard that termination caps (on unused inputs?) help with brightness and contrast issues on BVM's, but that might not be your problem

You got it mate. The better BVM 1416p I have needed those to eliminate vertical line noise on Irem M92 boards. I have this monitor for 2 years and I only discovered it 3 days ago. I had adjusted brightness and contrast with resistors in scart RGB lines, removed those and put terminator resistors in the monitor and signal became pure. The second BVM I have which is somehow newer model but with weaker image and far less image adjust knobs in front, has automatic 75ohm resistors on empty RGB sockets. The only boards that play better in that monitor is MKs.

[Wolf_]

On the subject of the gb player having problems I can not suggest the gbi low latency firmware strongly enough. It isn't emulation for all the purests out there, just a fan made/improved version of the gb player disc. You will need either a way to burn it to disc or the sd media loader ($20) for the gc to get it running though.

In terms of upscalers the ossc is king with 3 lines of latency vs 1.5-2 frames on the xrgb mini.

For displays pros go for 5ms or less response time but anything under 17ms is less than a frame and perfect for even the most hardcore player. It is important to check processing delay for different resolutions when shopping because it is not the same across the board.

Also be aware of your controller when measuring lag. For example the wiimote uses Bluetooth and will contribute to your total reaction time (more is worse) so if possible use the gc controller port for measuring response times on the wii.