2014 Update: Sony's losses DOWN from $5.7 to $2 billion!

[Op Intensify]

The M2 also would've been great to see, outside of Konami's use in arcade machines. Were there any unreleased games developed for it? Emulator?

There's some Youtube footage of Battle Tryst that seems to be emulated. I don't know any more than that.

I'm pretty sure that the only known unreleased game for the M2 is the original version of WARP's D2. Here's a page on it. They retained some ideas for the Dreamcast version, namely the occult elements and the terrorist attack on a plane in the opening.

[stryc9]

Good posts by everyone.

I wonder if they'll go back to cartridges now, or do they factor in the failure rate/ people buying multiple replacement consoles into the equation?

What has been said earlier about the Playstation brand getting tired and it's list of exclusives being boring, well it's just opinions, but for me it couldn't be truer.

Those Triple AAA and FPS releases wouldn't be issue if they were supplanted with a nice catalogue of arcade ports but this just hasn't happened, although the return of fighting games has provided some nice arcade style stuff, the lack of shooters has been a definite sticking point (and no, the PS1 emulation with it's awful input lag doesn't count).

I mean I look at my PS3 collection, and I've got under half the games I have for 360, and I got the J360 about 2 and a half years after the PS. And they are all fighters, that are available on 360 as well.

It's certainly nothing like the arcade port overload we got last gen on PS2..

The PS3 is a pretty boring console if you ask me and they need to change things up radically for this next gen one to get the image back on track and a decent, varied catalog that appeals to the same markets that the first two Playstations succeeded so well with. I think there is value in the suggestion of dropping the brand and coming out with something new.

Until then, I'm going back to the 16 bitters and to be honest there is a lot more chance of me picking up a NTSCJ Saturn or PC Engine CD than a new gen machine.

Heaps better libraries of games IMO

[louisg]

Part of that is just that arcades are dead. It's a reason that I don't think I'm going to be that excited about the next generation. I got so spoiled by the tight design of arcade games that when I play most console/computer games, they just feel sloppy, as if gameplay was the last consideration behind graphical glitz, scripted events and whatever substandard plot/dialog/acting they're forcing onto me. And a lot of the gameplay-oriented games have been forced onto download services instead of retail releases. Ugh.

But anyway.. this is straying from the topic..

Until then, I'm going back to the 16 bitters and to be honest there is a lot more chance of me picking up a NTSCJ Saturn or PC Engine CD than a new gen machine.

That's how I spent a majority of this generation. If you don't have a PCE CD, you really should get one. It's an amazing system. Though it doesn't have the sheer number of good games that the PCE does, the good ones are *really* good. Same goes for if you don't yet have a way of playing Saturn imports.

[Op Intensify]

Tight design is hardly exclusive to arcade games. Quake III is one of the most mechanically sound multiplayer games ever made. And I shouldn't need to mention all the amazing 8/16/32-bit games that didn't originate in arcades.

The problem has more to do with an incentive to appeal to a wider market of casuals and people who just got into gaming. Companies think they can do this by making either Angry Birds or shitty interactive movies.

[Friendly]

Those Triple AAA and FPS releases wouldn't be issue if they were supplanted with a nice catalogue of arcade ports but this just hasn't happened

The problem being: There aren't really (m)any new aracde games left to port (except for a handful of fighters). In most parts of the world, arcades have ceased to exist long ago.
Creating coin-op video games isn't really viable anymore.

[stryc9]

To be fair, I've had a lot of fun with the fighters this gen, as the online component is free with Sony and there has been the return of the greats like KOF, Street Fighter, MvC, as well as new stuff like Blazblue.
And admittedly these games jumped forward a lot further technologically than the fighters from the last generation, where there was a tendency to re-use old CPS2 and Neo sprites, at least from the two major hitters of the genre.

However, as well as the graphical leap, you also have the whole online fighting thing, which is obviously a big deal (when it works). I've had to train pretty hard to beat these experts, and I still get my ass handed to me all the time, it's great

You know I'll cave if PS4's got Street Fighter V and the online remains 'free'. That will always be the decider for me..

[Op Intensify]

Creating coin-op video games isn't really viable anymore.

What about NESiCA? Digital distribution is cheap, and the publishers get a cut out of the operators' collections. And games like Border Break have paid add-on items. There's no way we'd be seeing Crimzon Clover in arcades if not for NESiCA, and it's also put an absolute stop to the issue of Type-X piracy.

I'm pretty sure that Gundam Vs. and Senjou no Kizuna have remained commercially successful for years now.

[Skykid]

Skykid, you are now on my ignore-list; while I can still see topics created by you, all of your posts are automatically blocked from my view.

This is not a step I take lightly, but I feel you don't contribute content of enough intellectual value to justify tolerating your very low signal-to-noise ratio.
While you feel the need to comment on just about anything that is ever written in this forum, most of your posts demonstrate a rather limited understanding concerning a broad variety of subjects, whereas your constant provocations are just a waste of bandwidth and more importantly, time. Don't misunderstand me; I do very much enjoy thought-provoking ideas, but that's not the kind of provocation you incessantly engage in.
From my perspective, very little good has come out of talking to you (and I really tried). I can't (and don't want to) educate you; and asking you to "smarten up" would be akin to asking someone to grow a pair of wings- a matter of impossibility.

There are a number of intelligent, knowledgable, genuinely helpful and friendly people here whose input I value. This forum is much superior to most other video-game related boards in this regard. And since I would like to continue to enjoy this forum without you continuously lessening the experience for me, blocking you seems like the most sensible course of action; mentally ignoring someone simply doesn't work.

I may eventually unblock you to see if you have changed (though I don't really see any potential for that) or in case this measure proves to be too disrupting.

Ha ha ha, this just made my year.

[Ed Oscuro]

Skykid, you are now on my ignore-list; while I can still see topics created by you, all of your posts are automatically blocked from my view.

This is not a step I take lightly, but I feel you don't contribute content of enough intellectual value to justify tolerating your very low signal-to-noise ratio.
While you feel the need to comment on just about anything that is ever written in this forum, most of your posts demonstrate a rather limited understanding concerning a broad variety of subjects, whereas your constant provocations are just a waste of bandwidth and more importantly, time. Don't misunderstand me; I do very much enjoy thought-provoking ideas, but that's not the kind of provocation you incessantly engage in.
From my perspective, very little good has come out of talking to you (and I really tried). I can't (and don't want to) educate you; and asking you to "smarten up" would be akin to asking someone to grow a pair of wings- a matter of impossibility.

There are a number of intelligent, knowledgable, genuinely helpful and friendly people here whose input I value. This forum is much superior to most other video-game related boards in this regard. And since I would like to continue to enjoy this forum without you continuously lessening the experience for me, blocking you seems like the most sensible course of action; mentally ignoring someone simply doesn't work.

I may eventually unblock you to see if you have changed (though I don't really see any potential for that) or in case this measure proves to be too disrupting.

Ha ha ha, this just made my year.

[MX7]

Skykid, you are now on my ignore-list; while I can still see topics created by you, all of your posts are automatically blocked from my view.

This is not a step I take lightly, but I feel you don't contribute content of enough intellectual value to justify tolerating your very low signal-to-noise ratio.
While you feel the need to comment on just about anything that is ever written in this forum, most of your posts demonstrate a rather limited understanding concerning a broad variety of subjects, whereas your constant provocations are just a waste of bandwidth and more importantly, time. Don't misunderstand me; I do very much enjoy thought-provoking ideas, but that's not the kind of provocation you incessantly engage in.
From my perspective, very little good has come out of talking to you (and I really tried). I can't (and don't want to) educate you; and asking you to "smarten up" would be akin to asking someone to grow a pair of wings- a matter of impossibility.

There are a number of intelligent, knowledgable, genuinely helpful and friendly people here whose input I value. This forum is much superior to most other video-game related boards in this regard. And since I would like to continue to enjoy this forum without you continuously lessening the experience for me, blocking you seems like the most sensible course of action; mentally ignoring someone simply doesn't work.

I may eventually unblock you to see if you have changed (though I don't really see any potential for that) or in case this measure proves to be too disrupting.

Ha ha ha, this just made my year.

Indeed. I just copy pasted this post on my phone so I can own it forever <3

[I tried to figure out what is was you wrote that pissed him off so much since the last time he posted, but gave up. Any ideas?]

[stryc9]

The problem being: There aren't really (m)any new aracde games left to port (except for a handful of fighters). In most parts of the world, arcades have ceased to exist long ago.
Creating coin-op video games isn't really viable anymore.

Absolutely. Theres no denying this, yet games like Marvel v Capcom 3, Shin Naraion no Mago (that's spelled wrong), Eschatos, Bullet Soul, Strania, S&P2, and presumably the upcoming Ginga Force subscribe to the arcade ideal well enough for me. If these sorts of games keep coming out, I'll keep buying their new hardware, simple.

If they don't, then like I said it's back to 16/32 bit for me.

[Skykid]

Good posts by everyone.

I wonder if they'll go back to cartridges now, or do they factor in the failure rate/ people buying multiple replacement consoles into the equation?

What has been said earlier about the Playstation brand getting tired and it's list of exclusives being boring, well it's just opinions, but for me it couldn't be truer.

Careful there, you're in some danger of validating my posts as being in some way meaningful or worthy contributions to the topic.

We'll wait and see if Sony roll out a console with all the same hallmarks of the last several attempts. If they don't change their ways rather drastically, I expect to see a similar pickup rate to the Vita. I'm not excluding Microsoft from this equation, but by virtue of being in videogaming for a shorter time, they have less in the way of 'freshening up' to do.

If you don't have a PCE CD, you really should get one. It's an amazing system.

Damn straight.

[I tried to figure out what is was you wrote that pissed him off so much since the last time he posted, but gave up. Any ideas?]

It had to be the Sony fanboy disclaimer on the last page right? I don't know what the big deal is, if you have a hard-on for a corporate entity, just go with it. Everyone's coming out of the closet these days.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

We have an ignore function? o.O

Since when? Where?

If there is one and I'm just blind, Friendly should be still able to see Skykids posts when he logout so there is no need to quote him for Friendly. I assume that was the reason you quoted him, Ed...?

Anyway, Hirai has now more time to concentrate on his main job and creating a new, fresh and exciting Sony brand, hopefully.

Even though they made tons of huge mistakes from a consumer point of view, I don't wish the hard working guys at Sony to lose their jobs over the incompetence of a few lazy idiots on the top. Sony is in deep shit, I have no solution for that because I lack the bigger view that Hirai SHOULD have.

All I can say in regards of the TV section, I remember when I was a little kid and my parents wanted to buy a TV, even though they were more expensive, there was no question that if you buy a TV than it should be a Sony, simply because they had the reputation of creating stuff that was build for a lifetime enjoyment. Sony was the brand I remember as being THE consumer tech brand, you got a Sony product or you got shit, pretty much. At least that is what I remember from my childhood. Times have changed since then...

[stryc9]

To be honest, I don't know how anyone could be a fanboy of any of these current gen machines, they are definitively lacking any sort of discernible personality you would think would be the lynchpin of brand fanboyism.

Apart from the 360's obvious advantage on the STG front, there is nothing to be immediately excited about in terms of exclusives for either console, IMO.

I am admittedly pretty limited in my tastes, though

[Friendly]

We have an ignore function? o.O

Since when? Where?

If there is one and I'm just blind, Friendly should be still able to see Skykids posts when he logout so there is no need to quote him for Friendly. I assume that was the reason you quoted him, Ed...?

This board has no ignore feature; I am using Greasemonkey and a special script. If not for Ed's quote, I would not have seen the response, even when logged out.

[Skykid]

To be honest, I don't know how anyone could be a fanboy of any of these current gen machines, they are definitively lacking any sort of discernible personality you would think would be the lynchpin of brand fanboyism.

Maybe I should sig that instead!

We have an ignore function? o.O

No, but I believe someone invented a browser plugin that does the same thing. You can still see when someone has posted but it just hides the content. I tried it for a bit, but it's crap. If you're not privy to all aspects of a discussion your opinion is based on a smaller proportion of input. Even worse is when someone posts something saying "I just said that," but you can't and didn't see it.

^ Someone quote that for Friendly.

Back OT:

One thing we always forget as videogame 'lifers' is how younger generations have been weaned on a different type of media. Me trying to tell a teenager at work that Die Hard 4 is a steaming pile of shit for x amount of reasons is a hopeless argument: to him it was the quintessential action movie.

I see infants with ipods in their hands these days. In fifteen years the entire idea of a home console under the TV might be considered completely outdated.

[Ed Oscuro]

We have an ignore function? o.O

Since when? Where?

If there is one and I'm just blind, Friendly should be still able to see Skykids posts when he logout so there is no need to quote him for Friendly. I assume that was the reason you quoted him, Ed...?

This board has no ignore feature; I am using Greasemonkey and a special script. If not for Ed's quote, I would not have seen the response, even when logged out.

Meddling kids!

[Op Intensify]

Learned more about the 3DO M2.

- There are prototype development kits in the wild. This guy got a hold of one. There are also working emulators.

- There's an unreleased racing game, IMSA Racing. A beta version's ISO has been leaked and it plays on an emulator. Here's a video. As you can see, it was beyond anything the PS1 or Saturn were capable of graphically.

[apatheticTurd]

@Op Intensify: This forum thread by a 3DO employee who claims to have worked on the M2's development support might be of interest.

[Op Intensify]

It is, thanks!

Not surprised to learn that Trip Hawkins was pretty much out of his mind.

Someone uploaded the entire M2 press conference from E3 1995 on Youtube. It's hilarious when they show Virtua Fighter and Toshinden and then attempt to demonstrate the M2's superiority with a blonde bimbo karate-kicking a velociraptor in slow motion.

[Friendly]

To be honest, I don't know how anyone could be a fanboy of any of these current gen machines, they are definitively lacking any sort of discernible personality you would think would be the lynchpin of brand fanboyism.

Apart from the 360's obvious advantage on the STG front, there is nothing to be immediately excited about in terms of exclusives for either console, IMO.

I am admittedly pretty limited in my tastes, though

I like the PS3 hardware, I think it's well-designed, and for the reasons listed on the previous page of this thread I prefer it to the other systems of this generation. (Of course in order to unlock its full potential you need a secondary PS3 that is jailbroken, but that's another topic.) I am certainly no fanboy and I clearly see Sony's structural problems and the mistakes they made with PS3. Eating some humble-pie after ruling for two generations wasn't so bad for Sony.

Personally, I enjoyed the 8 and 16bit days more. Modern gaming bores me for the most part, though there have been a few gems for current gen system I wouldn't want to have missed; innovative and creative games that took risks (as opposed to stuff like Modern Warfare Part 256). Anyway, it's good to know that even if everything turns to crap now, there are enough quality titels created in the past 30 years to last a lifetime. Best part: You can actually own them because they are all physical (as opposed to digitally distributed and locked to one specific device).

[BIL]

The entire gaming industry can take a flying fuck at a speeding train for all I care, but Microsoft actually had the gall to whine about the public getting to see those staff training videos Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant did for them, so I am slightly more dismissive of them than Sony.

On topic, Sony's shitty d-pads have been wearing a callus into my left thumb for damn near twenty years now.

[Friendly]

The entire gaming industry can take a flying fuck at a speeding train for all I care, but Microsoft actually had the gall to whine about the public getting to see those staff training videos Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant did for them, so I am slightly more dismissive of them than Sony.

On topic, Sony's shitty d-pads have been wearing a callus into my left thumb for damn near twenty years now.

Use the cross-shaped d-pad cover included in this set and cry tears of joy
http://dx.com/8-piece-black-buttons-cap ... 644?item=1

[Skykid]

Adjusted thread title to encourage topical debate.

On topic, Sony's shitty d-pads have been wearing a callus into my left thumb for damn near twenty years now.

I think that we have seen the end of the Dual Shock to be honest. It hasn't been a very good controller for so long now, it would be beyond a joke for Sony to try and retain it for another generation. If they roll out the same pad again I'd be embarrassed for them even worse than I was with the PS3 - and that was pretty bad.

[louisg]

Not surprised to learn that Trip Hawkins was pretty much out of his mind.

"Why do they call you Trip?"

[neorichieb1971]

The dualshock is great as a pad. Its only FPS games that need something slightly more better. I admit the dpad is shite as well. But everything else is good.

The wavebird is my favourite pad.

Sony will be able to turn this shit around. PS4 will announce with claims it can overheat your HDMI leads because of the amount of polygons it can throw at your TV. Strip poker girls will be able to read your minds and the controller will have holographic displays coming out of it.

But, none of that will make up for the fact that 95% of the games will be regurgitated bs. Thanks for reading.

[Skykid]

The dualshock is great as a pad. Its only FPS games that need something slightly more better. I admit the dpad is shite as well. But everything else is good.

So it's got a shite d-pad and the analogs are no good for FPS's - but it's great?

Each to their own, it's always been a poor man's Super Famicom pad to me.

[null1024]

The dualshock is great as a pad. Its only FPS games that need something slightly more better. I admit the dpad is shite as well. But everything else is good.

So it's got a shite d-pad and the analogs are no good for FPS's - but it's great?

Each to their own, it's always been a poor man's Super Famicom pad to me.

I like the d-pad of the DualShock personally, but it's only been since recently. Most of my life, I hated that pad like crazy.
The SNES pad is definitely better [although, it has been a while since I've had a SNES pad around, hehe], but I wouldn't say the DualShock pad is complete shit.
And as for FPSes, I like having both sticks level with each other.

Definitely an acquired taste as a pad, and you could definitely do better [read: Saturn pad ].

[Obiwanshinobi]

Anybody who takes a joypad seriously as a controller for your average first person shooter hasn't got schooled at UT2004 or just about aby Tribes game.
The d-pad of DualShock2 is my d-pad of choice for shmups (I don't perform any better with any of my four Saturn pads). It may suck at "twisting" moves for all I care but I hardly ever play 1vs1 fighting games anyways (and I don't wanna go online to do so; no, thanks). The analogue sticks are good enough for Apocalypse, which is more than I can say about any other joypad's analogue sticks.
Currently I'm playing the first Burnout with a first-party 'Cube pad and it works a treat, but DualShock 2 wasn't any worse when I played Burnout 3: Takedown.

[null1024]

Anybody who takes a joypad seriously as a controller for your average first person shooter hasn't got schooled at UT2004 or just about aby Tribes game.

Well, yeah. Mouse+keyboard is the best option, no question. Try and play Quake 3 with sticks, hahahahahahahaha.
But for console FPSing, sticks with the same vertical position on the controller are best.