Why this forum hates touhou so much?

[Zengeku3]

...and better BGM and sound effects that don't sound like bubble wrap popping.

To be honest, that's one of the things I find that Touhou does really well. I personally find the music to be a more interesting aspect than the sound effects when it comes to STG and in some STGs you can hardly even hear the music because of all the explosions and gunfire going constantly going on. You have a point with the sound effects being pretty lame but i also have a hard time imagining what kind of sound effects you'd be looking for. Explosions and gunfire just wouldn't be very appropriate in a game about little girls firing paper amulets at other little girls.

In fact, the sound effects are actually pretty good at doing what they need to do. Especially with the later installments where you'll hear some sort of buzzing when you are close to killing something so you actually have an idea about when they are going to die.

Come again?

I think what he means is that the smaller hitboxes on ships and bullets in those games makes players able to survive things that they wouldn't be able to if the hitboxes of the bullets matched their sprites. Though i cannot say for sure of course. I can kinda understand that viewpoint. Crimzon Clover on its highest difficulty has no problems about shovering you with so many bullets that you can hardly see your ship.

[Aliquantic]

Not to mention you can fairly routinely fly through bullets in Ketsui or DOJ, and Mushi might even be worse at that... it's not guaranteed obviously, but running straight into a wall of bullets can work if you have no other option That seems to be a common quirk of bullet hell though and Touhou does have a few bullets that are smaller than they look (the white bubbles since PCB), or the occasional hitbox magic with Reimu, but it's usually a lot less blatant.

I'm not familiar with the technical differences, but Touhou uses a different sort of hit detection than Cave games, which are known to be pretty quirky since they're arcade games (checking for collisions every other frame for starters).

[DrInfy]

Crimzon Clover on its highest difficulty has no problems about shovering you with so many bullets that you can hardly see your ship.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Surviving situations like that seem more like luck than anything else.

[Gus]

Is that you, DrTrouserPlank?

[ancestral-knowledge]

r0flz0r !

[Skykid]

Why this forum hates so much touhou?

Easy:
Because the guy which posted before me don't like. If he liked Touhou would be in top 25 Shmups of All Time.

Man, you're mental.

[Zengeku3]

Crimzon Clover on its highest difficulty has no problems about shovering you with so many bullets that you can hardly see your ship.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Surviving situations like that seem more like luck than anything else.

Its certainly still a question of skill but I can understand where you are coming from when you say that you don't appreciate it too much.

[moozooh]

Breaking down my opinions

That is a pretty spot-on analysis, Blackbird.

A year or two ago I had a little Touhou marathon for a couple weeks where I tried out most of the games to see what the deal was

Interesting; do you still have the games installed? I could recommend a few pro scoring replays to you that you might find an entertaining watch as a scoring-oriented player.

[Drum]

Why this forum hates so much touhou?

Easy:
Because the guy which posted before me don't like. If he liked Touhou would be in top 25 Shmups of All Time.

Man, you're mental.

Nah, he has a point. There is a pretty big 'pointlessly contrarian' streak running through the board. I'm part of the problem.

[Skykid]

Nah, he has a point. There is a pretty big 'pointlessly contrarian' streak running through the board. I'm part of the problem.

You're right about that, that's not why I said it tho.
third_strike is under the impression that my opinion sways forum consensus, and likes to chime in every now and then to remind everyone that I've spoken the gaming gospel. I feel like I'm being stalked.

Regarding pointless contrarianism, I agree, although I don't mind reiterating for the third time that I don't see anything wrong with Touhou games, I could never figure out what all the hate was about either. Is just the general aesthetic that's lacking.

[AntiFritz]

Nah, he has a point. There is a pretty big 'pointlessly contrarian' streak running through the board. I'm part of the problem.

You're right about that, that's not why I said it tho.
third_strike is under the impression that my opinion sways forum consensus, and likes to chime in every now and then to remind everyone that I've spoken the gaming gospel. I feel like I'm being stalked.

Regarding pointless contrarianism, I agree, although I don't mind reiterating for the third time that I don't see anything wrong with Touhou games, I could never figure out what all the hate was about either. Is just the general aesthetic that's lacking.

I agree with third strike, people seem to follow your opinion.

[Drum]

Nah, he has a point. There is a pretty big 'pointlessly contrarian' streak running through the board. I'm part of the problem.

You're right about that, that's not why I said it tho.
third_strike is under the impression that my opinion sways forum consensus, and likes to chime in every now and then to remind everyone that I've spoken the gaming gospel. I feel like I'm being stalked.

Regarding pointless contrarianism, I agree, although I don't mind reiterating for the third time that I don't see anything wrong with Touhou games, I could never figure out what all the hate was about either. Is just the general aesthetic that's lacking.

Man, he is mental.

[Paradigm]

Touhou is a highly mediocre bullet hell series that gets more attention than it deserves. Meanwhile far better doujin 2D shooters go criminally ignored.

I also think it's humorous that ZUN thinks his games are quality enough to charge money for.

Touhou > MileStone

[Skykid]

Nah, he has a point. There is a pretty big 'pointlessly contrarian' streak running through the board. I'm part of the problem.

You're right about that, that's not why I said it tho.
third_strike is under the impression that my opinion sways forum consensus, and likes to chime in every now and then to remind everyone that I've spoken the gaming gospel. I feel like I'm being stalked.

Regarding pointless contrarianism, I agree, although I don't mind reiterating for the third time that I don't see anything wrong with Touhou games, I could never figure out what all the hate was about either. Is just the general aesthetic that's lacking.

I agree with third strike, people seem to follow your opinion.

News to me folks, if I had a penny every time someone on this forum said "For once, I agree with Skykid" I'd be sipping a piña colada on the beach earning 20% right now.

Man, he is mental.

Ha ha!

[Udderdude]

Udderdude's several step plan for improving Touhou

1. Make actual stages, with layouts and stuff. Similar in theme to Mushi Futari stage 4/5. No more floating over a void for the entire game.
2. Make some enemies besides fairies. Have some variety. Add a main villian/race of enemies that isn't a little girl in a dress.
3. Boss fights don't last 5 minutes anymore and remove the obviously "Inspired" patterns blatantly copied from other arcade shmups.
4. Non-retarded scoring system plz. I know some of the Turrhurrs have decent scoring systems but most are like .. wut.
5. Get one of the zillions of Turrhurr arrange guys to arrange the soundtrack so it doesn't sound like retarded MIDI in the actual game.
6. Remove the clunky dialogue scenes and replace with voice-overs similar to Futari, which can also be disabled.

[shmuppyLove]

Udderdude's several step plan for improving Touhou

1. Make actual stages, with layouts and stuff. Similar in theme to Mushi Futari stage 4/5. No more floating over a void for the entire game.
2. Make some enemies besides fairies. Have some variety. Add a main villian/race of enemies that isn't a little girl in a dress.
3. Boss fights don't last 5 minutes anymore and remove the obviously "Inspired" patterns blatantly copied from other arcade shmups.
4. Non-retarded scoring system plz. I know some of the Turrhurrs have decent scoring systems but most are like .. wut.
5. Get one of the zillions of Turrhurr arrange guys to arrange the soundtrack so it doesn't sound like retarded MIDI in the actual game.
6. Remove the clunky dialogue scenes and replace with voice-overs similar to Futari, which can also be disabled.

[O. Van Bruce]

1. What do you mean by stage lay out? develop...

2. ZUN is not exactly a pixel drawer so it's better as it is instead of watching some blurry enemies. Well, it's true that I would like more enemies though.

3. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

4. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

5. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

6. You just press CTRL on the dialogue...

[ZenErik]

Touhou is a highly mediocre bullet hell series that gets more attention than it deserves. Meanwhile far better doujin 2D shooters go criminally ignored.

I also think it's humorous that ZUN thinks his games are quality enough to charge money for.

Touhou > MileStone

I wouldn't say I agree with this, but I do somewhat.

I get much more enjoyment out of Illvelo and Radirgy Noa than I do from Touhou, but I enjoy some of the Touhou games I've played more than Karous and Chaos Field.

[Deca]

There's a lot I don't like about Touhou, it's pretty much all been covered by others in this thread. That said I revisited the series recently, played a bit of UFO to give it another chance. I managed to have fun with it, and I think it's good just as a change of pace to keep pushing your skill set. I feel like anyone serious about playing shooters can benefit from playing the series at least once in a while.

[Kollision]

Touhou > MileStone

Heresy

[Skykid]

1. What do you mean by stage lay out? develop...

2. ZUN is not exactly a pixel drawer so it's better as it is instead of watching some blurry enemies. Well, it's true that I would like more enemies though.

3. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

4. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

5. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

6. You just press CTRL on the dialogue...

Not a fair appraisal of udderdude's list tbh. You asked the question why the forum rags on Touhou, these are at least realistic possibilities. I don't think the 3 elements you wrote off have anything to do with taste, yet I would agree the polarising appeal of Touhou is an important factor in how people value it.

I mean, they're like shmups for little girls innit? (Forum Rage Mode Activated. )

Yotsubane performed a fatality on Zun with CC, but we should probably remind ourselves how long CC took to make versus the pile of Touhou wares.

[Zengeku3]

Udderdude's several step plan for improving Touhou
3. Boss fights don't last 5 minutes anymore and remove the obviously "Inspired" patterns blatantly copied from other arcade shmups.

I don't see why you would want the boss fights to be shorter. The stages in the game are messy, uninspired and needlessly prolonged waiting zones whose only purpose is for you to enjoy the music. Or something.

If the game's score system doesn't click with you then this is a serious problem. And in the case of MoF, there is no excuse for having such sluggish stage progression.

The bosses have always been the main attraction of these games so it doesn't make sense to complain about the length of the boss fights. It does however make sense to complain about how these bosses like to prolong themselves with trivial and easy nonsense in the form of attacks you seriously can't lose to and then right after that you get something that'll rape you.

[Bee Cool]

1. What do you mean by stage lay out? develop...

2. ZUN is not exactly a pixel drawer so it's better as it is instead of watching some blurry enemies. Well, it's true that I would like more enemies though.

3. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

4. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

5. THE GAME DOESN'T MATCH MY TASTES...

6. You just press CTRL on the dialogue...

So you think personal tastes aren't a valid reason for a person to prefer other games over Touhou?

Touhou defence force in full swing.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Crimzon Clover felt more like it was just trying to be flashy from what i played of it. Not exactly much substance though, and I didn't find it fun to play.

I would still buy it if it got on Steam though. but there's no way I'd bother importing the game.

[Naut]

I mean, they're like shmups for little girls innit?

DOJ is girly in the same way Touhou is girly tbh.

[Kollision]

I mean, they're like shmups for little girls innit?

DOJ is girly in the same way Touhou is girly tbh.

[Never_Scurred]

So, 4 pages later, is it safe to say that Touhou is the Nickelback of the shmups genre?

[Formless God]

Two cents

Toohoo's art is fine. It's pretty similar to mango art of the 90s, which I'd gladly take over the kawaii uguu bullshit that plagues everything these days. Deathsmiles. eXceed. Otomedius. Alternative Sphere. Trouble Witches. Fuck. That. Shit.
Toohoo's music is also fine. Obviously Till When, EoSD and nearly half of his 500-ish songs sound like piss, but some are simply magnificent and no amount of fan arrange will ever top them in quality. I've grown out of rock and metal, saaadly.
*cough*As for gameplay, scoring doesn't feel rewarding compared to, say, Ketsui, and stage design is ass, but the difficulty and boss fights are pretty nicely done. Overall it's neither groundbreaking nor horrible, just different from a lot of STGs.
So yes, I like it. As an STG.

UFO is shit though, convoluted trash.

It's not convoluted if I can blind 1cc it with zero memorization. Now one might say "1cc is too mainstream, I play for sk0r3". No, a score run should be the exact same deal but with blues instead. See, I was able to summon enough UFOs to fund all six stages without any UFO routes, I would only need to change all of 'em into blues and play with less lives, and a handicap on extends doesn't make things convoluted.

[Skykid]

I mean, they're like shmups for little girls innit?

DOJ is girly in the same way Touhou is girly tbh.

It's pretty similar to mango art of the 90s, which I'd gladly take over the kawaii uguu bullshit that plagues everything these days. Deathsmiles. eXceed. Otomedius. Alternative Sphere. Trouble Witches. Fuck. That. Shit.

What he said.

[Zengeku3]

@Formless
Didn't know you even had an account here. Well spoken nonetheless Formy-chan.

Though what do you mean, blind 1cc? I seem to recall you having quite some practice with the game before clearing. Unless you are referring to a clear of a lower difficulty.

PS: I also like how you're like, no comment on gameplay and then proceeds to talk about gameplay.