People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

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dave4shmups
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dave4shmups »

Cuilan wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:The problem for me with XBL would be that I'd have to pay for it anyway, because I would want to download some XBLA games as well as DLC for games like Fallout 3. I don't know if that would require a gold membership, maybe just silver or bronze.
You would only need a Silver membership for that (which is free). There is no Bronze.
Oh, very nice! :D
@Skykid, what didn't you like about Killzone 2? The game looks amazing. I can see complaints about the dialogue, since I've heard that every other word is "fuck".
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Skykid »

dave4shmups wrote:
Cuilan wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:The problem for me with XBL would be that I'd have to pay for it anyway, because I would want to download some XBLA games as well as DLC for games like Fallout 3. I don't know if that would require a gold membership, maybe just silver or bronze.
You would only need a Silver membership for that (which is free). There is no Bronze.
Oh, very nice! :D
@Skykid, what didn't you like about Killzone 2? The game looks amazing. I can see complaints about the dialogue, since I've heard that every other word is "fuck".
Everything looks like its great, but start playing it and you'll realise that the flaws of the original are beneath the surface. It's repetitive and boring, and the AI is annoying as hell.
Basically Guerilla are pretty average designers, and it's a very average game.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dave4shmups »

Does anyone know how well the PS3's doing over in Europe? For a while, IIRC, it was doing pretty well. I seriously wonder what you have to do to be a mod on XBL. Because it would be so much fun drop the hammer on some 13-year old punks cussing people out.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Skykid »

Some worldwide sales figures. Not sure of reliability (from wikipedia)

Wii: Worldwide: 52.62 million (as of June 30, 2009)

XBOX 360: Worldwide: 31 million (as of August 27, 2009)

PS3: Worldwide: 24.6 million (as of August 5, 2009)

According to this everyone is having a nice slice of the pie. I thought the Wii was even further ahead though.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by The n00b »

dave4shmups wrote:
Cuilan wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:The problem for me with XBL would be that I'd have to pay for it anyway, because I would want to download some XBLA games as well as DLC for games like Fallout 3. I don't know if that would require a gold membership, maybe just silver or bronze.
You would only need a Silver membership for that (which is free). There is no Bronze.
Oh, very nice! :D
@Skykid, what didn't you like about Killzone 2? The game looks amazing. I can see complaints about the dialogue, since I've heard that every other word is "fuck".
How about "it's a horrible clone of the Halo series?" The truth is that there would be no Resistance or Killzone series if Halo was on playstation 3. At least people make fun of Halo, Killzone 2 was pretty much forgotten one month after its release.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by neorichieb1971 »

FPS fans are on the 360 and PC. Every FPS will be forgotten on Ps3 just as every non FPS game will be forgotten on 360.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

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neorichieb1971 wrote:FPS fans are on the 360 and PC. Every FPS will be forgotten on Ps3 just as every non FPS game will be forgotten on 360.
Death Smiles, Raiden Fighters Aces, Raiden 4, Forza 2, UFC 2009, Gears of War series, Ninja Gaiden 2, and Project Gotham Racing 4 are going to be forgotten about? Some psychic vision you have there. Considering that POV has no basis in reality.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

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neorichieb1971 wrote:FPS fans are on the 360 and PC. Every FPS will be forgotten on Ps3 just as every non FPS game will be forgotten on 360.
But Killzone 2 deserves to be forgotten Rich, it's really turd.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dave4shmups »

Skykid wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:FPS fans are on the 360 and PC. Every FPS will be forgotten on Ps3 just as every non FPS game will be forgotten on 360.
But Killzone 2 deserves to be forgotten Rich, it's really turd.
Why? The only defects I can think of in the first one were graphical, and I've heard raves about Killzone 2's graphics. As I have about Resistance 2. So why are these games so forgettable? As far as rip-offs go, doesn't the whole Halo series rip off of Aliens, Starship Troopers, and other science fiction? The Killzone series rips off of Riefenstahl to be sure, but most video games rip off something. :?
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

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dave4shmups wrote:
Skykid wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:FPS fans are on the 360 and PC. Every FPS will be forgotten on Ps3 just as every non FPS game will be forgotten on 360.
But Killzone 2 deserves to be forgotten Rich, it's really turd.
Why? The only defects I can think of in the first one were graphical, and I've heard raves about Killzone 2's graphics. As I have about Resistance 2. So why are these games so forgettable? As far as rip-offs go, doesn't the whole Halo series rip off of Aliens, Starship Troopers, and other science fiction? The Killzone series rips off of Riefenstahl to be sure, but most video games rip off something. :?
No arguments with the graphics in either the first or second - the look was what convinced me to play.
But the game is hollow, try it and you'll see. It's a vacuous experience that feels all wrong when the world is so atmospheric. There's a trick missed with Killzone: everything looks right, but the design is full of flaws. Should have sold the graphics team to infinity ward - then we'd have a game!
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dave4shmups »

Gotcha. So, with the release of the slim-PS3, why in the world doesn't Sony just do backwards compatibility with emulation like Microsoft? I don't see any reason why they'd need to charge more for the system if they did, because it wouldn't have the emotion engine inside. Or do they just not care for some reason? :?:
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Cuilan »

dave4shmups wrote:Gotcha. So, with the release of the slim-PS3, why in the world doesn't Sony just do backwards compatibility with emulation like Microsoft? I don't see any reason why they'd need to charge more for the system if they did, because it wouldn't have the emotion engine inside. Or do they just not care for some reason? :?:
Main reason is probably because the PS2 is still selling. They make a good amount of profit on each PS2 sold, which helps offset the losses from the PS3 (at least a bit). And then there are other, lesser reasons : Sony thinks that most people these days don't care about BC, and their software-based PS2 emulator probably isn't working well enough yet.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dcharlie »

Killzone 2 thoughts in a nutshell (though really not sure this should be in the X360 thread, but hey...)

+ insanely good looking, good art style, some fantastic

+ very organic at points early in the game - shoot out those containers and let the explosive cannisters roll towards the enemy then detonate - you can, take out parts of the scenery to force people back - you can. etc. This however starts disappearing a bit as the game progresses

+ fantastic sonics - sounds incredible with a good sound system

+ rocket fly bys... the first time i saw a rocket come towards me i ducked. Again, other games have this but it looks especially good in KZ2

+ death animations very well done and pretty satisfying.

+ Multiplayer - at least initially - is fresh and fun.

- the straight line levels are awful (the bridge, the train) - you are funnelled down a one track set up and , although the game doesn't rely on this most of the time, introduces respawning enemies which leads to you getting stuck at various spawn spots leading to dash-of-hope to hit the next checkpoint trigger

- story is poor and the characters are largely awful and instantly forgettable. Rico possibly the most annoying game character ever created.

- too many hold/choke points where you are faced with an on rush of enemies or a point to protect. Yes, a lot of fps games fall into this trap but KZ2 falls into it over and over and over.

- final boss level is utterly terrible.

- once you've noticed that you are a midget, it's hard to unnotice it. Becomes annoying at a couple of bridge shoot outs where you aren't tall enough to see over the hand rail and not quite short enough to see under it.

- pointless and utterly terrible tank section, mech section not quite as bad.

- some destruction somewhat weird - you can take out huge chunks of a building one minute with your rocket launcher, but then other times you have to blow up a box that will then blow up the bridge etc. Again, it's organic one minute then tightly controlled the next. Not a massive problem really.

In short, the SP starts off well, but it seem to run out of steam pretty quickly. The game is definitely worth a look from the audio/visual point of view and it's a pretty fun MP game. SP feels more like COD than Halo in the end despite having the "organic" feel of Halo initiatially.

On topic : people who rebuy X360 - the reliability of the X360 is shockingly bad, but the thing is that lots of people have already built up big libraries and, more importantly, a large section of friends (at least in the US) have bought X360's too. Switching from X360 to the PS3 doesn't seem much of an option. I hope that MS don't fall into this trap again next gen.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by neorichieb1971 »

The n00b wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:FPS fans are on the 360 and PC. Every FPS will be forgotten on Ps3 just as every non FPS game will be forgotten on 360.
Death Smiles, Raiden Fighters Aces, Raiden 4, Forza 2, UFC 2009, Gears of War series, Ninja Gaiden 2, and Project Gotham Racing 4 are going to be forgotten about? Some psychic vision you have there. Considering that POV has no basis in reality.

Some of those games are only available in Japan and most people wouldn't have heard about them to forget about them. I stand by what I said, the games industry is shite right now. I could theoretically bypass every game coming out these days without blinking an eyelid. I only buy games to be disappointed really. The last games to really make me go WOW were in the last generation. Well, thats not quite true, I did almost go Wow with uncharted and wipeout. I almost went wow with SF4. But the fact is, they were just graphically more impressive games of the last generation. Which means that apart from uncharted and dead space, once I got past the graphics I didn't see anything to like anymore. So forgettable.

I like Miyamoto's visions quite a bit. He seems to find new and innovative ways to take something old and give it a fresh breeze of life. Sony and Microsoft are just making games look better.

I would like to see games that are like shmups. Really fast and frenetic with great fast gameplay with ultra cool graphics, but really easy to control. The graphics needn't be detailed if it meant slowing down the game below 60fps. Just give us some high addrenalin action with easy controls and some great animation. Its not always better to push the limitations of the machine as that takes away from creativity time and puts more emphasis on anti-bottle necking the system. You can make great games with limited budgets. Monkey ball is one such example.. Its fast, its got gameplay, its a great innovative idea but the graphics could have been done on any machine at the time. Rez was another... We don't need what we got and most of us are looking for something else even though we don't really know what it is.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dcharlie »

you know Richie, i quite enjoy your rants and whilst i'm sure they all ring true for yourself (as i've been through several bouts of game apathy) the SECOND you start saying things like this :

"I like Miyamoto's visions quite a bit"

you're basically off the friggin charts.

Miyamoto hasn't made anything actually good in an age.

Pikmin was okay, Pikmin 2 was a bit better than okay, Nintendogs was okay, Wii Music was fucking complete and utter garbage.

you say Nintendo / Miyamoto give you something new whilst Sony/MS give you the same thing reskined, yet in Wii Music the ONLY thing he gave you was a friggin Midi player with a Twat-a-ton waggle "play a long but not really" rhythm game that's not even that.

I agree theres a lot of shite this gen, but holding up Miyamoto THIS gen as an example to everyone else is not a great argument IMO.

There ARE great next gen games on X360/PS3 - it's just the wrong games get the focus.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Well I think my head was in the past when writing that. The last Nintendo console I bought was the Cube and the last game by Miyamoto was Mario Sunshine.

I was guessing Galaxy was good as well, maybe not. Perhaps Zelda was a disappointment as well, although it sounds like he had little to do with it going by your response.

Those games are still more inventive than shooting soldiers over and over. Well to me anyway.

You are right though, its a bit like really loving 80's music in the 00's for me. Everytime I hear something NEW thats remotely 80's, it ends up stinking of the 00's. I continue to buy games in search of something a little inspiring, making a stock pile of plastic landfill. I will wait until shooting soldiers gets boring and the games industry is reborn. You can officially put me in the waiting queue for a revolution. What I see is MS and Sony fighting out to make the best looking games. But KZ2 was supposedly poor (not played it) and every Sony game that has gone head to head with a pioneering 360 game has lost its credibility within a month. Thats why I hope Sony will wake up and make their own niche. I might like it as well. :)
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Diabollokus »

My main issue with most console FPS is the aiming system, Killzone 1 weapons just sprayed bullets, K2 were just as flawed. Beautifully presented though. Mechanically inferior to COD4/Halo3.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

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Everytime I hear something NEW thats remotely 80's, it ends up stinking of the 00's.
haha, i think i know what you mean - like seeing the new Bonk remake and it just not having the same art style that was part of the charm.

Revolution wise, there's always something interesting out there - for some reason Braid jumps out as something you might enjoy. Slightly odd art style, but pretty enough, coupled with a frustrating fiendish idea that (when it works) it REALLY works and does give plenty of "holy f**king sh*t!!!!" moments.

I'm sure you might already have seen it, but incase you haven't : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtSKkyJgFM

trailer doesn't give too much away and really only hints at what the game is about.

But anyways, there are lots of interesting games out there that work on whole new levels. It's a case of just finding them

I am hoping next gen that XNA/iphone/whatever style home coding is possible from the console itself , i'm personally hoping that the "revolution" is one of the consoles becoming the "next amiga" with an itunes style apps section where anyone who has an idea can try and get it out there. The revolution will be ideas and not tech driven :D
I would like to see games that are like shmups. Really fast and frenetic with great fast gameplay with ultra cool graphics, but really easy to control. The graphics needn't be detailed if it meant slowing down the game below 60fps.
you did try one of the Geometry Wars games right?
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

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neorichieb1971 wrote:Well I think my head was in the past when writing that. The last Nintendo console I bought was the Cube and the last game by Miyamoto was Mario Sunshine.

I was guessing Galaxy was good as well, maybe not. Perhaps Zelda was a disappointment as well, although it sounds like he had little to do with it going by your response.

Those games are still more inventive than shooting soldiers over and over. Well to me anyway.

You are right though, its a bit like really loving 80's music in the 00's for me. Everytime I hear something NEW thats remotely 80's, it ends up stinking of the 00's. I continue to buy games in search of something a little inspiring, making a stock pile of plastic landfill. I will wait until shooting soldiers gets boring and the games industry is reborn. You can officially put me in the waiting queue for a revolution. What I see is MS and Sony fighting out to make the best looking games. But KZ2 was supposedly poor (not played it) and every Sony game that has gone head to head with a pioneering 360 game has lost its credibility within a month. Thats why I hope Sony will wake up and make their own niche. I might like it as well. :)
Super Mario Galaxy is absolutely one of the greatest games in this generation, and it was done by Miyamoto.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dcharlie »

Super Mario Galaxy is absolutely one of the greatest games in this generation, and it was done by Miyamoto.
for some reason, my brain blots out Super Mario Galaxy despite the fact i've played it twice in two languages and throughly loved it.

Though i didn't think it was particularly revolutionary, it's incredibly well executed and insanely fun.

Zelda was just too long in the tooth though - 14 hours in before things really start moving was just too much.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Geometry wars is not a AAA title. It lacks the adventure part of gaming.


How about something like SMB with gun turrets? Running around a maze in a tron fashion, blowing the shite out of everything that moves. With PS3 graphics something like Tron Legacy could be done in realtime or thereabouts. It could be fast. You could have space harrier influenced levels.. How would that look with PS3/360 graphics engine :shock:

See it doesn't take 5 mins to come up with a great idea, taking something that had its roots buried in the 80's, but bringing it smack bang up to date in the 00's. The game would feel arcadey, it would work well online and most of all it wouldn't look boring. You could have "matrix" style movie soundtrack when things get heated up.

Surrounding graphics could borrow from Bladerunner. UFO's that drop power ups, TV screens the size of buildings showing other areas where your foes might be hiding.

Or if you want to go Cheapo style like GW's, how about Bomberman Volleyball? Lots of bomber men playing volleyball with a bomb, when the bomb touches the ground it detonates. Hudson could do periodic updates to allow extra animations so that their reactions to being blown up can be changed keeping the game fresh and inviting. How hard can that be to make?


I've just taken 2 minutes to come up with a game plan of something that I might like to see. All the tools already exist for such a game. It would be easier to make than KZ2 or Gears of War.

Am I the only one that thinks these games could be fun? I just bought Outrun online and God of war on psp for someone. After 15 minutes of initial amusement they played their other PSP that was hacked and played NES roms. The PSP however is so over rated as a 3D platform due to the controls.. yuck.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dcharlie »

Geometry wars is not a AAA title. It lacks the adventure part of gaming.
Geometry Wars Galaxies adds more elements, but anyways -

I'm not sure why games -have- to be AAA to be considered worthwhile anyways - the game you describe certainly doesn't sound like it would be AAA either in terms of scope, appeal etc ! ;)
See it doesn't take 5 mins to come up with a great idea
it's too loose of an idea! there's some bones, but not a lot of meat - what would make it playable? you even fall back into the fail-boat by starting to day dream about how it'll look on next gen consoles rather than worrying about how the power of the new machines would make new as-of-yet-unavailable gameplay mechanics possible.

you also seem to have described a generic action game template for next gen!

without meaning to offend, there's nothing that you've described that would seperate that design from X number of bog standard action games. Bionic Commando would pretty much fit your design brief and it's pretty much garbage.

You need to figure out what it was about the 80s games that made them so special.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Lordstar »

[quote="dcharlieI am hoping next gen that XNA/iphone/whatever style home coding is possible from the console itself , i'm personally hoping that the "revolution" is one of the consoles becoming the "next amiga" with an itunes style apps section where anyone who has an idea can try and get it out there. The revolution will be ideas and not tech driven.[/quote]

I hope this is true somewhat ture for the next generation of home consoles. There estimating that the next gens games are going to rival budgest of movies. So there will be a lot less games coming out for a lot longer period of time. Kinda like a very long infancy in a console. So I think the boldest ideas and the underdog games are really going to outshine the torrent of EA sports sims and generic easy safe options and sequels.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dave4shmups »

dcharlie wrote:
Super Mario Galaxy is absolutely one of the greatest games in this generation, and it was done by Miyamoto.
for some reason, my brain blots out Super Mario Galaxy despite the fact i've played it twice in two languages and throughly loved it.

Though i didn't think it was particularly revolutionary, it's incredibly well executed and insanely fun.

Zelda was just too long in the tooth though - 14 hours in before things really start moving was just too much.
I agree regarding Zelda. But that's the problem I've had with all of the 3D Zelda games, waaay too many fetch quests until you actually get to fight enemies. In the 2D Zelda's, you were able to start fighting enemies almost immediately. And the Wii controls for the "wolf" character were sloppy, IMO.

As far as the number of games that are released, I think that will stay fairly consistent-the fact that games are on discs now means that they can be mass produced in a way that simply wasn't possible 20 years ago.

I agree that the PSP stinks for portable games, and what in the world was Sony thinking releasing a $250 hand held system in the middle of a global recession? :?

Again, this is why I would choose the Wii, as a serious gamer. It's got the Virtual Console, it's got plenty of traditional rail shooters, and it's got plenty of bloody hardcore games like MadWorld and No More Heroes. And it has that legendary Nintendo durability.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by szycag »

everyone's laughing at you
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Taylor »

I'm a "serious gamer" and I still haven't felt the need to replace the batteries in my Wii-Remote from the first time they ran dry.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Elixir »

dave4shmups wrote:I agree that the PSP stinks for portable games, and what in the world was Sony thinking releasing a $250 hand held system in the middle of a global recession? :?
think carefully.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by Skykid »

Elixir wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:I agree that the PSP stinks for portable games, and what in the world was Sony thinking releasing a $250 hand held system in the middle of a global recession? :?
think carefully.
Indeed, there are some time scale issues here.
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Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by neorichieb1971 »

dcharlie wrote:
Geometry wars is not a AAA title. It lacks the adventure part of gaming.
Geometry Wars Galaxies adds more elements, but anyways -

I'm not sure why games -have- to be AAA to be considered worthwhile anyways - the game you describe certainly doesn't sound like it would be AAA either in terms of scope, appeal etc ! ;)
See it doesn't take 5 mins to come up with a great idea
it's too loose of an idea! there's some bones, but not a lot of meat - what would make it playable? you even fall back into the fail-boat by starting to day dream about how it'll look on next gen consoles rather than worrying about how the power of the new machines would make new as-of-yet-unavailable gameplay mechanics possible.

you also seem to have described a generic action game template for next gen!

without meaning to offend, there's nothing that you've described that would seperate that design from X number of bog standard action games. Bionic Commando would pretty much fit your design brief and it's pretty much garbage.

You need to figure out what it was about the 80s games that made them so special.
Simplicity! Undo what we done.

If I decribed Fzero on the SNES era before it came out. I would say a spaceship like craft going round a circuit with jumps in it. You can't explain in a paragraph or two what the features the game will have. All the games borrow elements from what went before.

I will try to give an example from a different perspective -

SMK - SNES. When it came out it got poor reviews by people who just couldn't control it. But when people clicked that the slide aspect of the game should be used almost as an art form people started raving about it like its the next coming.

5 or so years later Super mariokart 64 came out. People just expected 3D polygons doing the horse work, but keeping the game to its roots. Nintendo didn't do that, they made a game that FELT completely different. Why can't someone make a AAA game today that took that playability from SMK and supe it all up to todays standards?

Its taking something old, suping it up and repackaging it as new. Its what the oldschool crowd wanted in the first place right? Powersliding in 1080p with tight tracks sounds appealling to me. The make your own track style game on Ps3 thats coming out looks more like SMK64.


If you make a game look AAA, you can get todays crowd to overlook some other aspects of the game. If you made a NDS style mariokart and put it on the wii, people would just say "oh its that old stuff again" never to give it a chance.

There is a window to make something marketable thats old. Presentation is the key I think. Its no good keep saying "well, we will poor 150 million into Gear of war 3 but only 500,000 into ((Richies REZ type game))". People wouldn't even hear about it.

I also do not know where BC came from. I've seen videos of it. It has neither the art direction, feel or control system i'm thinking of. I'm not even talking about a game that has a human figure as the main character.

What i'm trying to achieve is leap frogging 80-90's playabilty over this war game FPS craze right now. Without the big budgets supporting a different perspective, you can pretty much say that FPS and sports will stay at the top forever from now on.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
dcharlie
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:18 am

Re: People who keep on buying XBOX 360's....

Post by dcharlie »

What i'm trying to achieve is leap frogging 80-90's playabilty over this war game FPS craze right now. Without the big budgets supporting a different perspective, you can pretty much say that FPS and sports will stay at the top forever from now on.
i guess i'm just confused - there's a lot more to this gen than FPS games and sports games, at least... i'm seeing more than that.

for F-zero style gameplay coupled with an update of a 90s game, try out Wipeout HD (Fury if possible)

Here, have a peek : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR5m-mzHvMg

specifically tuned back to play like Wipeout 2097 before the series went a bit wayward, looks the party, presentation is excellent, gameplay is as close to the older games as it can be etc.
I also do not know where BC came from.
i threw that in because it seemed to fit your description of what you were looking for in a game - the description you gave sounded like the generic template of most of the poorer next gen games: take older game, make nice 3d engine, similar goals, throw in Matrix style music etc.

but i think i understand more what you mean now... in which case, then are you trying out the stuff on XBLA/PSN which includes a spruced up version of the NES BC?

XBLA and PSN are littered with older game ideas brought more up to date.
(Richies REZ type game))".
well, Rez HD got made for XBLA and i think we'll see Rez 2.
"I've asked 2 experts on taking RGB screenshots...."
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