"Wahhh, this shmup is too short, it's only 1 hr"

[devilmanozzy]

WTF, Gradius V is a long game, and its not easy. I cryed my way to level 5 so the rock pushing boss of hell could laugh at me. He had to been using cheats. That game also has loops which I guess even by his logic would be like 80min X 50 loops. Yeah, thats short.....................................!

Who is this lame guy anyways? What does he want from the scrolling shooter games? I like to have 8 levels of fair death and it lasting 40 mins to a hour if perfect. Music should be good and interesting (Darius and gradius does that well) and interesting art in the levels. Story?....... nothing personal but story is you made it through the game alive......there you go. If you want story, go watch a movie.

[lgb]

the problem with this whole situation is that they have every right but go about it the wrong way

Manic shmups are a niche and no matter what happens the best you're going to get from a reviewer is "this game is probably too hard for most and is for Fans Of The Genre Only"

this is exactly where the typical argument blows up in a reviewer's face, had anyone cared to tag him for it

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3175925&p=4

this is the public being lenient on the genre, aka an "understanding" or even a "good" article

[doctorx0079]

I'd like to see a shmup with fetch-quests and backtracking.

It's called Sigma Star Saga.

Too bad it sucked.

I can tell what they were going for with SSS, but they failed badly, albeit grandly. It feels like two totally different half-games smushed together, neither one of them finished. The best thing about that game are the BEAUTIFUL character designs, which deserve to be in a better game.

[Enhasa]

"Wahhh, this shmup is too hard, it's taking 10 hr"

Wow that thread is fucking awesome, it's a real rogues gallery!

They don't make threads like these anymore.

[Observer]

Good god, that thread was awesome. No further commentary.

Ah, again the struggle against the mainstream reviews. Someone should make a template for them. Did anyone notice none of these reviews talk about the freaking mechanics? No mention to the fairies in Raiden, no proper mention of any scoring tips, no jack shit. If it's not chaining and it's there and clearly visible, forget it. Something like medalling, Dimahoo and others are out of reach. Most of the time you hear them trying to sound that they know the deal and start throwing names for the sake of throwing names. "Yeah, I play Raiden a lot when I was a kid." Yeah, so did I and I knew jack shit of how it worked until I researched more about it years ago. I played Thexder on the MSX too but I won't be mentioning that in every freaking shooter review.

Here, let me make the template of the average review:

"_______ (game title) is too short. You can beat it in less than an hour and that's it. The ending is bland. The storyline is not too good. This game is very hard. This game is impossible. Too retro. Graphics are ugly, not enough browned, bloomed next-gen fluff. Space Invaders era is over, go play some real shooters like Geometry Wars. These things from the 19th century are way too old. You only have 5/6/7/etc. stages. You just shoot. It's too retro. Boring. lol, poor of everyone who buys this. Not enough value for your money. Did I mention it's short? Did I mention it's RETRO? And why do I have a score counter up there? Where are my cutscenes? R-Type this, Gradius that. Ikaruga is THE best.

3/10 =( "

Etcetera. Exchange the order of the sentences, modify, alter and voila, you got yourself a schmukmup review. Any new mechanics? Scores? Ship weaponry? Rank? Grazing? Item collection? Not bombing? 1cc? What the hell is that? Who needs it? I just want to see the ending and proceed to the next mammoth. Sushihime-sama Futanari, Cho Pon Capi Dai-Tou-Hou, Ketsumint and Armodon Polite Buttraider are just blocks on my neat game-focused Jenga. Who wants to go back to them and keep playing it after you saw the ending, which you obtained one hour ago after you purchased it????

At this point we can only laugh or attempt to scold the reviewer.

[cj iwakura]

I'd like to see a shmup with fetch-quests and backtracking.

It's called Sigma Star Saga.

Too bad it sucked.

I can tell what they were going for with SSS, but they failed badly, albeit grandly. It feels like two totally different half-games smushed together, neither one of them finished. The best thing about that game are the BEAUTIFUL character designs, which deserve to be in a better game.

Yeah, it had flaws, but I enjoyed it enough for an experimental game.

Interesting plot, too.

[Ed Oscuro]

which sd loli will our hero get to shag? tune in next time on sigma star saga.

Afterwards: Tell all: I was an evil purple loli brothel madam!

[undamned]

Credit feeding and then calling a game too short is like saying Myst is lame because after you know all the correct choices it only takes you like 10 minutes to complete.
-ud

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, Cyan has been using that argument on us for years. "Play Uru Online and get four NEW ten square meter Ages before we shut the game down again!" Myst just seems kinda content-thin compared to Riven, anyway. RealMyst rules though.

[Taylor]

Sushihime-sama Futanari

I would play this.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

I remember that some games did use the ultimate deterrent to using otherwise unlimited continues. Blaster Master (platform shmup) and Fester's Quest (maze shmup), both by SunSoft for the NES, kept all of the current inventory of weapons and such but started the player at the very start of the game each time they continued.

Still other ways of deterring unlimited continues include resetting the score to 0 (if one cares about score), or starting at the beginning of a level instead of the last spot where a turn was lost.

The main thing is, shmups are supposed to be short, IMHO. That way, more than one game can be played in a single gaming session. I still enjoy many older shumps over the newer/manic ones, so my examples below are all from older/classic shmups:

So what if, after I've learned the game, ThunderForce III only takes about 25 minutes to complete? Then after I've finished ThunderForce III, maybe I can play M.U.S.H.A., that only takes about 20 minutes to complete. Afterwards, perhaps I can play Twin Cobra, that takes a bit over 30 minutes to get to as far as I can get on one credit (stage eight). Oh, and in the case of Twin Cobra, the game does loop and get harder when finished, so that's another way that the otherwise short shmup game can be extended--by allowing the player to loop the game rather than just ending it. If I still haven't had enough action, then maybe I can finish up with Gaiares, where I still can't get past the 6th stage on a single credit.

In contrast, there are games of other genres that sit on the shelf for months without being played, due to their stubborn unlock systems to make the game longer than it actually would be if everything is available. Need For Speed Underground II is a perfect example of that--having to drive around town to find the next race, having to complete a certain number of races to unlock other sections of town... so then playing that game is either play a single race and then I'm done with it, or else I'm in for a multi-hour gaming session playing race after race, but still stuck playing the same game. I also don't like getting stuck playing the same game for multiple hours just to find out I am only x% done with the entire game.

In the case of reviewers, though, there has to be some way the game designers could send a message to the player/reviewer who just credit feeds to the end, by not showing the ending and instead just giving them a blank screen with something like the following:

Improper end of game! You lost <x> ships total and continued <y> times. Without continuing, you would have only made it to stage <z> on a single credit. Please try again without using continues, thank you.

[Aru-san]

In the case of reviewers, though, there has to be some way the game designers could send a message to the player/reviewer who just credit feeds to the end, by not showing the ending and instead just giving them a blank screen with something like the following:

Improper end of game! You lost <x> ships total and continued <y> times. Without continuing, you would have only made it to stage <z> on a single credit. Please try again without using continues, thank you.

Then they'll just bitch about how the game nags you to complete the game with one credit and slap the "for dedicated fans only" label on it.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

which sd loli will our hero get to shag? tune in next time on sigma star saga.

Afterwards: Tell all: I was an evil purple loli brothel madam!

Sounds like something that you'd find on the front cover of National Enquirer and all those other nonsense weekly rags. It's comical to see old folks just poring over page after page of that crazy shit in the local grocery stores. Some of those stories are fucking laughably insane along with the usual black and white photoshopped pics as "proof". ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[cj iwakura]

which sd loli will our hero get to shag? tune in next time on sigma star saga.

Afterwards: Tell all: I was an evil purple loli brothel madam!

Sounds like something that you'd find on the front cover of National Enquirer and all those other nonsense weekly rags. It's comical to see old folks just poring over page after page of that crazy shit in the local grocery stores. Some of those stories are fucking laughably insane along with the usual black and white photoshopped pics as "proof". ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Always fun to read how many of those articles are the result of a 'source' or a 'close friend"(all of them).

[doctorx0079]

which sd loli will our hero get to shag? tune in next time on sigma star saga.

Afterwards: Tell all: I was an evil purple loli brothel madam!

Sounds like something that you'd find on the front cover of National Enquirer and all those other nonsense weekly rags. It's comical to see old folks just poring over page after page of that crazy shit in the local grocery stores. Some of those stories are fucking laughably insane along with the usual black and white photoshopped pics as "proof". ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Always fun to read how many of those articles are the result of a 'source' or a 'close friend"(all of them).

My mom tried reading that for a while, then gave up.

[microcosm]

"Wahhh, this thread bump is too soon, it's only 1 yr."

Computers, and machines in general, are a huge step forward for humanity -- they can automate tedious and repetitive tasks. Let the game itself respond to those reviews, by showing cu(n)t-scenes that are progressively more irritating and insulting to any player who overuses continues.

Let them play their 50-hour epics the way games are meant to be played, without save states, spare lives or a pause button.

[Jockel]

--

Another Icycalm sockpuppet account?

[ROBOTRON]

Sorta reminds me of Tecnosoft's BLAST WIND...I went through a lot of trouble to get it and as soon as I started getting into it....it was over. But it was probably a direct port of some arcade game which are primarily designed to munch quarters and not so much depth.

It is what it is...watcha gonna do?

[Otai]

Shmups are meant to be played over and over again. This fact is never caught on most people's mind. Even me, a casual shmup player realize this. Playing in multiple times means it does not need to be long, unless clearing every modes available (such as story mode, arcade mode, arrange mode, boss rush, etc.). In my opinion, single loop game within 1 time gameplay should be not more than 40 minutes.

Everyone is entitled to their playing styles and we should respect them, not throwing rebuttals. I consider 1cc a game at default setting would be an achievement proving standard hardcore shmup skills, which is more than actual clearing.

[Koa Zo]

Sorta reminds me of Tecnosoft's BLAST WIND...I went through a lot of trouble to get it and as soon as I started getting into it....it was over.

I really enjoy the length of Blast Wind. It is a great game to just get a quick fix without having to devote too much to it.
Yeah, the default difficulty is quite easy, but that is fine with me.
And don't forget it has branching paths which is kind of a novelty.

The biggest gripe about Balst Wind in the inability to orientate the screen to tate.

and I agree with Otai, 40 minutes is perfect for a shmup.

[gameoverDude]

I have a couple ideas:

* Make the remaining ship bonus a percent of the player's end score like 5%-10%. If someone continues on the final boss, this amount would be dismally low- but that's an incentive to improve.

* Add an "Emergency Mission" feature like the gun game Razing Storm. Example: If a game has 5 stages, then the player should be required to prevent the 4th boss from timing out. If the 4th boss does time out, the game would go to a bad ending.

Gradius V is a little longer than it needs to be. After finishing a 70-80 minute game, I don't really feel like going through it once again. I'll third what Otai said about 40 minutes a loop.

[microcosm]

--

Another Icycalm sockpuppet account?

God, I hope not -- insomnia.ac is an arseholes' paradise. (A plural noun, although few retain posting permissions.)

[Shelltoon]

A lot of these reviews (and I'm sort of guilty of this myself when I wrote a Raiden IV review on my typepad, which I regret) miss the point of these games. It's not just enough to credit-feed to see the end. The purpose of a shmup is to master it. It's not like Gears of War where you play it once and spend the rest of your time on multiplayer, or a game like Final Fantasy where you play through a linear storyline, beat it once and call it a day. Shmups have more replay value than most of these paid "critics" realize.

[Jockel]

really?

[Cers]

really.

[ShmupSamurai]

bkk wrote:
I'd like to see a shmup with fetch-quests and backtracking.


It's called Sigma Star Saga.

Am I the only person who liked that game/or thought it was actually good?

[The Expanding Man]

I tried playing golf on the weekend.

Man, that game sucks. I beat it in 4 hours. All I had to do was take 16 shots per hole.

WTF - Tiger Woods gets paid so much money for that????????

[ShmupSamurai]

I tried playing golf on the weekend.

Man, that game sucks. I beat it in 4 hours. All I had to do was take 16 shots per hole.

WTF - Tiger Woods gets paid so much money for that????????
I tried playing golf on the weekend.

Man, that game sucks. I beat it in 4 hours. All I had to do was take 16 shots per hole.

WTF - Tiger Woods gets paid so much money for that????????

And that has WHAT to do with shmups?

[Aguraki]

I tried playing golf on the weekend.

Man, that game sucks. I beat it in 4 hours. All I had to do was take 16 shots per hole.

WTF - Tiger Woods gets paid so much money for that????????
I tried playing golf on the weekend.

Man, that game sucks. I beat it in 4 hours. All I had to do was take 16 shots per hole.

WTF - Tiger Woods gets paid so much money for that????????

And that has WHAT to do with shmups?

with shmups not much,with OP everything.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

bkk wrote:
I'd like to see a shmup with fetch-quests and backtracking.


It's called Sigma Star Saga.

Am I the only person who liked that game/or thought it was actually good?

I played it not too long ago and i found that the battle system been a shmup was quite a novel thing which for a person who genrally hates most Jrpg battle styles i found it quite refreashing. But since you get too overpowered towards the middle of the game, it too became a grind.

Personally i think the RPG part was that let it down, sure the story was good but the world it was set in was very substandard, just generic looking space stations for towns and generic maze like planets as the dungeons of which there was too few in number and required back tracking.