Shooting Game Tournament 2008 Theme Weeks and possible Rules

[Rob]

Capcom week should be changed to CPS-2 hardware week.

Progear would obviously win. GW was picked last year, MM counter stops, no one wants to play Dimahoo seriously. The winner, Progear, could be put in Cave week for actual vote competition.

[moozooh]

There aren't enough tourney-type Cave games to warrant a separate week, I'm afraid, unless you want it to be something like ESPRa.De. — Dangun Feveron TA — Progear (and nothing else).

But I thought DF timeattack was already being shortlisted for the caravan week?

[P_HAT]

Again, I think we should have a 8-bits week. And were's Tumiki Fighters on the doujin week?
EDIT: In the case of a hardware week, it should be the Neogeo week.

Nononno, pls, no 8-bit games.
Neo-geo week?
bad idea.
Even CPS2 a better idea

[Rob]

There aren't enough tourney-type Cave games to warrant a separate week, I'm afraid, unless you want it to be something like ESPRa.De. — Dangun Feveron TA — Progear (and nothing else

Yeah, one of the reasons to reduce games to 3.

[lgb]

I forgot Progear was published by Capcom, but I think it's more deserving of Famous Manic Week. Also, I didn't mention 1944: The Loop Master because no one seems to like that game very much, though I'm not sure why. I didn't mention U.N Squadron because it's supposed to have some scoring exploit (supposedly on the final boss?). Is Strikers 1945 Plus the one for Neo-Geo?

1. Sure, have it your way. It qualifies for both sides.
2. I don't know either. I've never heard anything about it.
3. I wouldn't know about that either. I don't play U.N. Squadron for score.
4. Yep.[/quote]

But MX7 actually gave me a somewhat more fresh idea: we've already had themes by subgenres and developers, how about hardware platforms? So, for instance, Capcom week should be changed to CPS-2 hardware week. How about that? Ever thought about Toaplan hardware week?

Good idea. Just know that if a Cave week is in this, Hotdog Storm will probably be chosen. Just a heads-up.

1941
19xx
Chariot
Varth
Carrier Air Wing
Forgotten Worlds

How does that sound? ^_-

Great! 1941 is always welcome. Though, we really should give Mars Matrix a chance, Giga Wing was done last year...

LGB: I don't really want 5-game choice suggestions, especially when I'm not 100% sure I want 5 games to be available choices during voting weeks :-/

5 seems like a solid number. If you'd like 3 games a week instead:
--------
=CARAVAN WEEK=
-Seirei Senshi Spriggan
-Final Soldier
-Nexzr Special

=DOUJIN WEEK=
-Rally Raid
-nomltest
-Ultimate Stage

=CAPCOM WEEK=
-19XX
-Carrier Air Wing (either one is fine with me)
-1941/Varth

=TAITO WEEK=
-Gun Frontier
-Mega Blast
-Rayforce

="FAMOUS" MANIC WEEK=
-Progear no Arashi (if it isn't under Capcom Week)
-Mars Matrix (if it isn't under Capcom Week)
-Batsugun

Yes? No? If you say so... Is this post going through? Edit: Yes it did, ignore this sentence.

[Icarus]

=CARAVAN WEEK=
-Seirei Senshi Spriggan
-Final Soldier
-Nexzr Special

With the exception of Final Soldier, aren't the other two CD-based games? Doesn't that disqualify them immediately? :p
I doubt Caravan Week will work to be honest, since there's a distinct lack of actual decent caravan games. Feveron TT, Recca TT and Macross 2 are the best choices here.
If only Pink Sweets was emulated. :p

=TAITO WEEK=
-Gun Frontier
-Mega Blast
-Rayforce

Gun Frontier? As much as I like the game - no. Slow, plodding, no scoring system to speak of.
Rayforce, Twin Cobra 2 and something else. (Shame G-Darius is difficult to emulate properly.)

=DOUJIN WEEK=
-Rally Raid
-nomltest
-Ultimate Stage

Hmmm. Drop nomltest and Ultimate Stage, put in parsec47 and something else (Uwabami Breakers? PatriotDark Extra? Haven't tried Xed yet so can't comment there).

="FAMOUS" MANIC WEEK=
-Progear no Arashi (if it isn't under Capcom Week)
-Mars Matrix (if it isn't under Capcom Week)
-Batsugun

Batsugun Special, not vanilla Batsugun.

[mikwuyma]

Rob: I was also thinking of reducing the game choices to three, but I thought that might be too extreme for some people.

I'd rather keep Caravan week for the middle because I think a week of short, 5-10 minute bursts of gaming would make fairly relaxing week.

The problem with having Cave, Raizing, and Psikyo weeks is what I would actually include in them. Also, a little developer variety wouldn't hurt :-/

I'm guessing...

Cave:

Progear
Esp.rade
Dangun Feveron

Psikyo:

Strikers 1945 I or II
Gunbird 2 (or 1 for a less strict scoring system?)
I'm having trouble thinking of a third game that isn't Strikers, Dragon Blaze, and is good, but I'm not the Psikyo fan you are Rob.

Raizing:

Battle Garegga
Mahou Daisakusen
Battle Bakraid? (anal scoring, barf)

Moozooh: That might work, Progear, 19xx, and Mars Matrix or some other cps2 game. I'd rather get the number of choices and what weeks I'm going to throw out finalized before I consider adding a cps2 week.

Taito week: You guys are probably right, two of my favorite Taito games, G-Darius and RayStorm, aren't eligible candidates because they have fairly hefty requirements when played in MAME. I could always include RayForce in famous manic week/games that don't suck week/whatever the hell the final week is going to be called.

Gekirindan would work if we had an easy games week

Icarus: The Game Paradise would also work, the graphics problem in mame hardly prevents the game from being playable, since you just look
at the bigger image anyways.

I thought Batsugun had emulation problems.

[Enhasa]

Theming by hardware instead of developer is similar but somewhat more interesting so why not?

Let's just cut all the crap and reduce the number of game choices each week to 1! Then we could just post the list of games now, the people who think those games suck could drop out, and we might just vaguely have something resembling a bitch-free tourney.

[moozooh]

Batsugun and some other Toaplan titles have missing sound at the moment, iirc.

[KennyMan666]

Alright, time for me to drop my opinions on the list of doujins in the first post.

Rally Raid, Kamui and Baroque Shooting aren't freeware, so shouldn't that invalidate them already?

I've tried Yalkina, and I don't think it's very good. Doesn't seem to have much of a scoring system. I'd vote for not including it.

nomltest and parsec47 are both endless, so I'm not sure either is a good idea.

Xed I actually hadn't tried before, and it was really good! Thanks to... whoever suggested it.

So, if you were to ask me, I would say the following five for doujin/indie/freeware week, in some sort of preference order:

- Uwabami Breakers
- Twin Seeds
- Xed
- Ultimate Stage
- Psyche Metal the Bleeding

Also, Eco Fighters is a must for a Capcom Week :D

Edit: Hm, didn't try PatriotDark. Downloading.

[Icarus]

Icarus: The Game Paradise would also work, the graphics problem in mame hardly prevents the game from being playable, since you just look
at the bigger image anyways.

I thought Batsugun had emulation problems.

Game Tengoku is interesting, though at present there is sprite doubling in Time Attack mode for me (MAME+ 0.116). Could get annoying if it occurs for other people, too.

Batsugun has graphical corruption in stage1 and end of stage4.

@KenyMan666: Baroque has a Time Attack demo, which, LOL, also qualifies it for Caravan Week. :p

[mikwuyma]

To whoever suggested Neo-Geo week, no, most Neo-Geo shmups aren't that great, and one of the best, Blazing Star, has a horrible scoring system (that, and it was picked in STGT '06).

Enhasa: MACAW TOURNEY GO! And yeah, you're right about the game choices, unless if something like Zing Zing Zip is picked. If I end up having a theme week by hardware, what else other than CPS2 week could work?

Kennyman666: Could you link me to Yalkina? A scoring system based on destroying enemies isn't exactly a bad thing either. And thank Sikraiken for Xed.

Icarus: Yeah, that's the graphics glitch I was talking about. It's really a minor annoyance at worst, and the game has a great time attack mode IMO (I know sikraiken agrees with me on this). I'll try out the Baroque demo later today. If Kiken or someone else already linked to it, then I missed the link.

[Shatterhand]

Again, I think we should have a 8-bits week. And were's Tumiki Fighters on the doujin week?
EDIT: In the case of a hardware week, it should be the Neogeo week.

Nononno, pls, no 8-bit games.
Neo-geo week?
bad idea.
Even CPS2 a better idea

I would love a 8-bit week. Either that or Pre-85 week like Rob suggested. People crying about Star Force was fun.

MSX week should have Aleste Gaiden on there for shits and giggles (and more shits as people die from the realization that yes, the Aleste name isn't cruise control for cool)

Aleste Gaiden isn't bad, it's just that's boring, easy, short and not very cool. Oh well, maybe it's bad indeed.

Edit: EVEN BETTER! We should have a NES week. Recca, Zanac and.. something else. Gradius, Over Horizon, Crisis Force, anything would do it.

[P_HAT]

afaik
-nomltest and all Kenta Cho game = 100% random.

Baroque's Time Attack mode a really strange idea for week O_o
Damn, i still think what 1 game fro caravan week i not-so good idea, but it just me.

and, once again - no console week = fail
we can put some cheap ps2 shmups for it, lol.
Like SnS2/XIIStag/etc.

also if team = 7 members, at least 3 of them have ps2 + bunch of games.

[KennyMan666]

Mike: YalkinaSTG. And remember, this is your god when it comes to finding doujin links.

Also, I tried PatriotDark, and it's definitely good. Don't think it's freeware, though. Shootthecore has it listed as a demo, and the download site says something along the lines of three released stages.

[Herr Schatten]

Psikyo:

Strikers 1945 I or II
Gunbird 2 (or 1 for a less strict scoring system?)
I'm having trouble thinking of a third game that isn't Strikers, Dragon Blaze, and is good, but I'm not the Psikyo fan you are Rob.

As much as I'd love to play Gunbird 2, why not just make it Strikers week then?

Four games to pick from and they are all considerably different. If we agree on a shortlist of five games, we can add a Sonic Wings (Special or Limited would be the top choices).

[Icarus]

Also, I tried PatriotDark, and it's definitely good. Don't think it's freeware, though. Shootthecore has it listed as a demo, and the download site says something along the lines of three released stages.

Yes, the demo is what I'm referring to. The three stages are pretty well designed, and Extra is like Mushi Futari Ultra, it has great scoring depth with the different score systems and secret spots, and it has more than enough challenge.

The only problem is, you need to clear one of the other modes to unlock Extra (not that difficult really).

[lgb]

=CARAVAN WEEK=
-Seirei Senshi Spriggan
-Final Soldier
-Nexzr Special

With the exception of Final Soldier, aren't the other two CD-based games? Doesn't that disqualify them immediately? :p
I doubt Caravan Week will work to be honest, since there's a distinct lack of actual decent caravan games. Feveron TT, Recca TT and Macross 2 are the best choices here.
If only Pink Sweets was emulated. :p

1. I'd say no. It's about as easy to find a PC-Engine .iso as it is to find a PC-Engine ROM. Not to mention that they're very small (usually under 50mb, with .mp3 soundtrack)
2. Aye, and it's a shame; there's a lot of fun to be had in 5 minute spurts. I decided against adding Recca in because that would make all 3 of them naxat games, and I wanted to see at least 1 Hudson game. I decided against the other two because I heard "Carivan" and thought "Carivan Shooting Collection" and "Summer Carnival". Bah, purist talk. Dangun Feveron would be great, as long as we didn't count the DM collected. Well, we could, but it's hard to tell how many you have after 999.
3. Very true. Maybe it'll happen someday. I very much liked Recca, and Recca becoming "true" bullet hell is always a must see.

=TAITO WEEK=
-Gun Frontier
-Mega Blast
-Rayforce

Gun Frontier? As much as I like the game - no. Slow, plodding, no scoring system to speak of.
Rayforce, Twin Cobra 2 and something else. (Shame G-Darius is difficult to emulate properly.)

1. I just thought Gun Frontier would be an interesting idea. Scoring systems other than shooting everything aren't exactly "required", are they?
2. Twin Cobra 2 seems a bit easy; I made it to stage 6 on just 2 credits. Does Rayforce, Return of the Invaders, and Akkenvader suit you better? I really can't think of anything else besides RF, TC2, and RotI that has a scoring system. (And Gekirindan, but that's also a bit easy.)

=DOUJIN WEEK=
-Rally Raid
-nomltest
-Ultimate Stage

Hmmm. Drop nomltest and Ultimate Stage, put in parsec47 and something else (Uwabami Breakers? PatriotDark Extra? Haven't tried Xed yet so can't comment there).

PARSEC sounds like fun, but nomltest should be here. Sure, it goes on forever, but we're only playing for one week, which is good for a game as such. A month is a different story...

Uwabami Breakers might do well, but it may fall under the same category as Touhou for some; it just doesn't work with everyone. This has already been said, but PatriotDark requires you to beat the game. A file with Extra unlocked or bust. (Haven't tried Xed either.)

="FAMOUS" MANIC WEEK=
-Progear no Arashi (if it isn't under Capcom Week)
-Mars Matrix (if it isn't under Capcom Week)
-Batsugun

Batsugun Special, not vanilla Batsugun.

I thought it was already clear, with the fact that Batsugun's even there anyway.

Of course, this is just me. Obviously, I prefer things that someone else may not. That's why this topic is here, to weed out the differences and come to mutual agreement.

I thought Batsugun had emulation problems.

Batsugun has graphical corruption in stage1 and end of stage4.

Has that been a problem before? It only seems to affect the background. I can see the first and second stage enemies/bosses and bullets as fine as any other stage. Then again I haven't done so well in stage 4, blame that on the fact I never play it.

[sikraiken]

Dangun Feveron would be great, as long as we didn't count the DM collected. Well, we could, but it's hard to tell how many you have after 999.

It shows it on the high score board. What does counting disco men have to do with anything anyway?


Also, Xed would be a great selection for Doujin week.

[lgb]

It does? I thought Time Attack didn't have a scoreboard? I never got a scoreboard. Bah, must have missed it or something.

Well, it seems that counting your Max Hits and your coin chain seems important.

[MX7]

It does? I thought Time Attack didn't have a scoreboard? I never got a scoreboard. Bah, must have missed it or something.

Well, it seems that counting your Max Hits and your coin chain seems important.

Sounds like you've never scored higher than the lowest default score.

[lgb]

In Time Attack? I'm sure I have! Maybe I should try again to eliminate my doubts. In the main game, that's a different story. I'm not too fond of enemy bullets going under mine...

[Icarus]

1. I'd say no. It's about as easy to find a PC-Engine .iso as it is to find a PC-Engine ROM. Not to mention that they're very small (usually under 50mb, with .mp3 soundtrack)

There's also the problem of running it. :p

Not many people has access to MagicEngine (the full version), or fancy the idea of installing Daemon just to run something for a week. Consider your audience - if it can be easily set up without having to install this program, that program and rotating your PC so it faces Mecca, then so much the better.

1. I just thought Gun Frontier would be an interesting idea. Scoring systems other than shooting everything aren't exactly "required", are they?
2. Twin Cobra 2 seems a bit easy; I made it to stage 6 on just 2 credits. Does Rayforce, Return of the Invaders, and Akkenvader suit you better? I really can't think of anything else besides RF, TC2, and RotI that has a scoring system. (And Gekirindan, but that's also a bit easy.)

True, but the game is irritating for score, and save for the inquisitive that attempt suicide tricks, many people will have identical scores. The game isn't exactly complex with it's calculations.

Okay then, how about Rayforce, Metal Black and Akkenvader?

PARSEC sounds like fun, but nomltest should be here. Sure, it goes on forever, but we're only playing for one week, which is good for a game as such. A month is a different story...

Uwabami Breakers might do well, but it may fall under the same category as Touhou for some; it just doesn't work with everyone. This has already been said, but PatriotDark requires you to beat the game. A file with Extra unlocked or bust. (Haven't tried Zed either.)

"Should be here"? Both games are endless, both games feature scoring systems (although one may feel more familiar to players than the other, being parsec47 is like Feveron), both games can be played in short bursts.
If anything, make the shortlist big enough to list 4 games, and put them both in. :p

RE PatriotDark: You mean this file? Put it in with the main game .exe. I think it holds the high scores too, so back up your old ones just in case. Unlocking Extra isn't even hard anyway, I think you can clear Easy and still unlock it (I quickly did this on Normal on a fresh install).

Just tried Xed. It's actually quite good (though it exits the program when I try to write a replay file).

I thought it was already clear, with the fact that Batsugun's even there anyway.

Six and two threes. I think Special is better for a scoring comp than vanilla Batsugun, but that's just me.

Has that been a problem before? It only seems to affect the background. I can see the first and second stage enemies/bosses and bullets as fine as any other stage. Then again I haven't done so well in stage 4, blame that on the fact I never play it.

Dunno. Whether it's a problem or not depends on who's playing it. I think the stage4 glitch clears up when you reach stage5 anyways, so it could be okay. I use the Saturn version though, and I'd imagine those with the PCB would use that.

[lgb]

1. I'd say no. It's about as easy to find a PC-Engine .iso as it is to find a PC-Engine ROM. Not to mention that they're very small (usually under 50mb, with .mp3 soundtrack)

There's also the problem of running it. :p

Not many people has access to MagicEngine (the full version), or fancy the idea of installing Daemon just to run something for a week. Consider your audience - if it can be easily set up without having to install this program, that program and rotating your PC so it faces Mecca, then so much the better.

1. Now that's a more valid argument. However, DaemonTools is very small and installs in about 3 seconds, even on an older computer like mine. You just simply load the .iso (or cue sheet) in the virtual disc, and done. Better to do lone .isos without cue sheets, as you would have to install a program to convert the .mp3s if you don't have one already, or if the package doesn't include any such of converter. The actual game .isos are far easier to get than the full packages, anyway.
2. I already said somewhere in this thread that the 5 minute timer can be bypassed easily. It's actually written on the main site, as well.

1. I just thought Gun Frontier would be an interesting idea. Scoring systems other than shooting everything aren't exactly "required", are they?
2. Twin Cobra 2 seems a bit easy; I made it to stage 6 on just 2 credits. Does Rayforce, Return of the Invaders, and Akkenvader suit you better? I really can't think of anything else besides RF, TC2, and RotI that has a scoring system. (And Gekirindan, but that's also a bit easy.)

True, but the game is irritating for score, and save for the inquisitive that attempt suicide tricks, many people will have identical scores. The game isn't exactly complex with it's calculations.

Okay then, how about Rayforce, Metal Black and Akkenvader?

Sounds like a plan. I just didn't think anyone wanted to play Metal Black this time, because of those bonus stages that everyone seems to hate. What was I thinking.

PARSEC sounds like fun, but nomltest should be here. Sure, it goes on forever, but we're only playing for one week, which is good for a game as such. A month is a different story...

Uwabami Breakers might do well, but it may fall under the same category as Touhou for some; it just doesn't work with everyone. This has already been said, but PatriotDark requires you to beat the game. A file with Extra unlocked or bust. (Haven't tried Zed either.)

"Should be here"? Both games are endless, both games feature scoring systems (although one may feel more familiar to players than the other, being parsec47 is like Feveron), both games can be played in short bursts.
If anything, make the shortlist big enough to list 4 games, and put them both in. :p

Sorry for not making myself clear; I had meant to replace Ultimate Stage with parsec47. I'd personally like 5 games in a voting list, myself.

RE PatriotDark: You mean this file? Put it in with the main game .exe. I think it holds the high scores too, so back up your old ones just in case. Unlocking Extra isn't even hard anyway, I think you can clear Easy and still unlock it (I quickly did this on Normal on a fresh install).

Then we're good to go there, if PatriotDark is picked. But that's another story.

I thought it was already clear, with the fact that Batsugun's even there anyway.

Six and two threes. I think Special is better for a scoring comp than vanilla Batsugun, but that's just me.

I would think so too. Advance Batrider was played during its week.

Has that been a problem before? It only seems to affect the background. I can see the first and second stage enemies/bosses and bullets as fine as any other stage. Then again I haven't done so well in stage 4, blame that on the fact I never play it.

Dunno. Depends on who's playing it. I think the stage4 glitch clears up when you reach stage5 anyways, so it could be okay. I use the Saturn version though, and I'd imagine those with the PCB would use that.

1. Very true, maybe it's easier if you tate your monitor before hand? I've actually never played Batsugun tate'd. Maybe I should.
2. But you always have those who don't have access to the Saturn version or a PCB. Isn't the PCB Batsugun Special very rare?

[Kiken]

Rally Raid, Kamui and Baroque Shooting aren't freeware, so shouldn't that invalidate them already?

The demos are all freeware. Rally Raid offers the first 3 levels of the game, Kamui the first 2, and Baroque Shooting's demo is a Time Attack of the first stage. All of these are adequate for scoring competition (especially if we're considering Caravan Modes).

[Icarus]

1. Now that's a more valid argument. However, DaemonTools is very small and installs in about 3 seconds, even on an older computer like mine. You just simply load the .iso (or cue sheet) in the virtual disc, and done. Better to do lone .isos without cue sheets, as you would have to install a program to convert the .mp3s if you don't have one already, or if the package doesn't include any such of converter. The actual game .isos are far easier to get than the full packages, anyway.

And now we're getting into the complexities of running an ISO - audio conversion, format cross-conversion etc. Do you think it's fair to inflict this on people who might not have done it before? :p

PS: If we are forced to have iso files in Caravan week, shortlist Alzadick. :p

Sorry for not making myself clear; I had meant to replace Ultimate Stage with parsec47.

Then we are in agreement there. (Ulitmate Stage isn't anywhere near as good as the others.)

Then we're good to go there, if PatriotDark is picked. But that's another story.

And why wouldn't it? It's doujin Cave. ^_-

2. But you always have those who don't have access to the Saturn version or a PCB. Isn't the PCB Batsugun Special very rare?

Then they'll have to use MAME. :p
And the Special PCB? Only about as rare as the vanilla one, and then it can be romswapped.

[lgb]

And now we're getting into the complexities of running an ISO - audio conversion, format cross-conversion etc. Do you think it's fair to inflict this on people who might not have done it before? :p

PS: If we are forced to have iso files in Caravan week, shortlist Alzadick. :p

1. No I don't! This is why your argument's good. I just want to see a Summer Carnival game other than Recca. But again, I say it's not even worth it to get a full package. It requires nothing but 5 minutes. And if you want music, get the game itself.
2. So it's Alzadick everyone's after? I can see why.

Then we are in agreement there. (Ulitmate Stage isn't anywhere near as good as the others.)

True. Still can be fun at times, though.

And why wouldn't it? It's doujin Cave. ^_-

From what I hear about STGT's infamous drama, Cave is a touchy subject... still open to opinion obviously, but a touchy subject.

Then they'll have to use MAME. :p
And the Special PCB? Only about as rare as the vanilla one, and then it can be romswapped.

The cheap way out! Okay, I'm kidding there. I would think it's near impossible to get the Special version other than the Saturn. I don't expect people to romswap; I had expected everyone to use the Saturn version or Mame, actually.

Let's try the previous quote only this time.

[moozooh]

Seeing Xed, PatriotDark and Twin Seeds all in one week would really make my day. :)

it exits the program when I try to write a replay file

Sounds like you're having a read-only attribute set to your Xed folder, and when the game tries to write a new file in there, Windows denies it, and the game crashes, not knowing what else to do.

[freddiebamboo]

Just tried Xed. It's actually quite good (though it exits the program when I try to write a replay file).

Same here. It is good, though not sure if it's better than Patriot Dark.

[maxi]

Yes, Metal Black is very good, but those bonnus stages make the score system bad.
An Atari 2600 week also is a good idea. We can play River Raid or Laser Gates.