in terms of shmups, i know that ISO and TAC spent 50,000yen practicing mushi futari in the space of one month. if that's a 50yen arcade (you would assume so) that's 1000 credits of play in 30 days; ie playing an average of 30 runs a day, every day. SYO played ketsui for up to 4 hours a day, every day, to achieve 400+mill 2-ALL on ketsui within one year. ben-shinobi's 25+mill on radiant silvergun took 1000+hours logged on his saturn. maybe it's possible there are some people who can learn quicker. but it's plain to see that most records are set from huge hours of practice.
Yes your statement about spending huge hours is true. But that sort of thing is almost a given when you want to leech every last point for score. I mean if you want to go for 700M+ in DDP, for example, particularly in an arcade setting, you would have to spend tons of time in any case.
However, it was mentioned here sometime ago here that it took TAC about 150 credits to clear DOJ. Apparently this was mentioned in his arcadia high scores. I find it rather difficult to believe though. However, there was also a weblink with a TAC high-score and a similar note in front of it (presumably from arcadia) so I am not sure. Maybe the learning speed does vary significantly from player to player.
practicing progear on my PSP at work paid off. tonight on mame on my first try, i finally earned the first extend during the level 3 boss unfortunatley i was so excited about it, i died right at the beginning of level 4. had about 4.5 mil by the end of the credit.
to jpj & bill : well credit feeding why not, but when a game has parts that are a lot harder to learn than others (I guess all games are like that), you don't want to waste time on those other parts : not only not playing stage 1 and 2 every time you want to have a try at stage 5 and 6, but also being able to do a certain 30 second part hundreds of times without having to play any other parts at all. So I'm quite sure save state practice is much more time efficient than credit feeding like Japaneses do. They probably "waste" a LOT of time. Any of you knows how much time it took players to get something like 500 or 600M at DDP in arcades ?
And yeah, playing the first stages in each score run is a pain in the ass when they are so easy, I agree with you bill. I think that's the second worst flaw of the whole shmup genre, although I think Mushihimesama and futari ultra repair this by having hard enough first stages (not sure if they're still hard at all when you're able to play stage 4 and 5 though).
Icarus wrote:
Which is how people should be playing anyway. Some derive fun from maximising score, some from just playing. What is important is that you yourself enjoy your approach to the game, otherwise it becomes less fun and more a chore.
Sage words!
Here is some more inspiration:
Michael Jordan wrote:
“Just play. Have fun. Enjoy the game.”
“I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”
i agree prometheus, they could be quicker with save-states etc. but also take into account that a lot of shmups receive a japanese home port within a year or so. and like eoj has said ISO spent 80 hours practicing stage 3 only of ikaruga easy mode, in preparation for the appreciate dvd.
regarding ddp scores of 700m - i think it took WTN about 5 years (on and off). indeed the C-S record was set by a player in 2003 (same guy as the new ketsui record i think)
I doubt any of them know. I certainly have no idea how long I've put into DDP so far. Not even a good ballpark figure.
PROMETHEUS wrote:So I'm quite sure save state practice is much more time efficient than credit feeding like Japaneses do. They probably "waste" a LOT of time.
It's only a waste if they weren't having fun doing it. Maybe time efficiency isn't necessarily a good thing? I've probably put a few hundred hours into DDP (very roughly) and still generally suck, but am still having lots of fun with the game.
Edit: I noticed something else, a personal advantage to full runs every time. After a really good, adrenaline pumping run. Stages 1 and 2 are a good cool down, then stage 3 is a good rewarm-up before you start getting into the thick of things again =) If I just focused on grinding practice out on stage 5 I wouldn't be able to play nearly as long in a given session. I'd either get too frustrated or too hyped up on endorphins, and either way end up having to do something else for a while.
Last edited by Arvandor on Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Indeed you could not care about being time efficient in your practice. But I do. Besides like I said a couple of times I hate replaying the easy stages in each run, and in DDP this means a whole lot of stages because of its 2 loops game design. Also I just have much more fun playing the hard parts over and over again instead of playing the game linearly from stage 1 and waiting to reach the fun, hard places.
About 2 1/2 months.I spent most of my gaming-time that period playing Ikaruga on a TATE CRT Monitor.When I chained all the way to chapter 4.Good memories, indeed.It happened 6 years ago.
Then I put the GD in the shelf and hours later dodonpanchi smiled at me.I havent 1CC Dodonpanchi yet but it will happen one of these days.I know it.Then Ill maybe touch Ikaruga again and ~kill~ chapter 5.
bullet_happy wrote:About 2 1/2 months.I spent most of my gaming-time that period playing Ikaruga on a TATE CRT Monitor.When I chained all the way to chapter 4.Good memories, indeed.It happened 6 years ago.
Then I put the GD in the shelf and hours later dodonpanchi smiled at me.I havent 1CC Dodonpanchi yet but it will happen one of these days.I know it.Then Ill maybe touch Ikaruga again and ~kill~ chapter 5.
This post proves 'decenbt' should be your own standard, which shows you should just play how the hell you like. Some people would say getting OK at one shmup isn't decent, but that doesn't mean Bullet Happy doesn't have a point. If you feel fine after doing alright at one, or after 1CCing 20, what ever as you like it.
Except I guess that sometimes setting ypour goals low might prevent advancing.
Personally I rarely use more than one credit, but some times a 3 credit feed breaks the pain of hitting a 'wall'.
The trick is getting really philosophical about 1cc vs credit feeding. That way you can amuse yourself for hours over the existential questions of what "really" playing a shmup means, and lose sleep over that time you used two continues instead of restarting like a champion.
Then you are "decent" at shmups. Dodging bullets and shooting seems trite by comparison.
escadrille wrote:The trick is getting really philosophical about 1cc vs credit feeding. That way you can amuse yourself for hours over the existential questions of what "really" playing a shmup means, and lose sleep over that time you used two continues instead of restarting like a champion.
Then you are "decent" at shmups. Dodging bullets and shooting seems trite by comparison.
Exactly. Like I do. And then when you sit down to actually play shmups rather than spending hours on here thinking them over you realise just how utterly turd you are at playing them!
unfortunatley i was so excited about it, i died right at the beginning of level 4. had about 4.5 mil by the end of the credit.
