Sega Saturn vs Playstation

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:24 am

DC906270 wrote:yes, i bought it recently off this forum

If you don't want it, sell it.

CIT wrote:But regardless of what a system can do theoretically, it's still down to the programmers to get the job done, and in practice we somehow still have many titles (especially shooters) where the Playstation version is better.

DoDonPachi.

GateofThunderforceIII · Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:31 am

^^ And lack of input lag. Just try Darius Gaiden, Rayforce and Sengoku Blaede to name a few. Crisp, responsive controls on the Saturn and dull and slow on the emulated compilations.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:24 am

Spartacus wrote: Sengoku Blade, Gun Frontier, Batsugun, Battle Garegga, Blastwind, Game Paradise, Hyper Duel, Metal Black, Planet Joker, Steam Hearts, Kingdom Grandprix, Radiant Silvergun

ARGH! I want a SS!

Spartacus wrote: Gaia Seed, Marchen Adventure , X2: No Relief, Toaplan Shooting Battle, Two-Tenkaku, Stahlfeder, Meta-Ph-List u.X.2297, Air Grave, EOS: Edge Of Skyhigh, Shooter: Space Shot, Starfighter Sanvein, Time Bokan: Bokan to Ippatsu too, Time Bokan: Bokan Desuyo!, Kyuiin, Geppy-X: '70s Robot Anime, Gatchaman, Dezaemon Kids!, Dezaemon Plus, 3D shooting Tsukuru

Ok, I have havent heard of any of these and i thought i had a decent
PSX collection for Shmups, are any of these worth trying?

Harlequin

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:08 am

Harlequin wrote:
Spartacus wrote: Sengoku Blade, Gun Frontier, Batsugun, Battle Garegga, Blastwind, Game Paradise, Hyper Duel, Metal Black, Planet Joker, Steam Hearts, Kingdom Grandprix, Radiant Silvergun
ARGH! I want a SS!

Say no to Planet Joker, and Steam Hearts.

Harlequin wrote:
Spartacus wrote: Gaia Seed, Marchen Adventure , X2: No Relief, Toaplan Shooting Battle, Two-Tenkaku, Stahlfeder, Meta-Ph-List u.X.2297, Air Grave, EOS: Edge Of Skyhigh, Shooter: Space Shot, Starfighter Sanvein, Time Bokan: Bokan to Ippatsu too, Time Bokan: Bokan Desuyo!, Kyuiin, Geppy-X: '70s Robot Anime, Gatchaman, Dezaemon Kids!, Dezaemon Plus, 3D shooting Tsukuru
Ok, I have havent heard of any of these and i thought i had a decent
PSX collection for Shmups, are any of these worth trying?

The only good ones are Toaplan Shooting Battle and Starfighter Sanvein. The rest you can forget about it.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:20 am

Fighter17 wrote:Say no to Planet Joker, and Steam Hearts.

Done!

Fighter17 wrote:The only good ones are Toaplan Shooting Battle and Starfighter Sanvein. The rest you can forget about it.

Done!

Cheers!

Harlequin

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:24 am

The Bokan games aren't bad, if you're able to not take your shooters too seriously once in awhile. That said, though, the first one is available on Saturn as well, while the second (Desu Yo) is PS1-only. The others on that list (that I've played) are "okay" at best.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:07 am

Gatchaman is good, though you'll need to crank up the difficulty.

Cotton is Cotton, which is good.

Geppy-X is long-winded and not terribly interesting unless you really enjoy giant robot anime.

Two-Tenkaku lets you fight Shiva as a final boss...or was it Buddha...either way, that's the only redeeming feature.

Air Grave and Stahlfeder are generic...with Air Grave having some aggrevating sections.

Something that needs to be said about Gatchaman and the Time Bokan series is that they have a great visual style that's not too serious.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:55 am

CIT wrote: But regardless of what a system can do theoretically, it's still down to the programmers to get the job done, and in practice we somehow still have many titles (especially shooters) where the Playstation version is better.

True, for games released on both platforms, it's pretty even. I daresay that even the games that didn't turn out so good (like Soukyugurentai and Thunder Force V) were simply due to poor porting efforts).

What's better looking than Akumajo Dracula X?

SOTN is a tough pick because of the numerous 3D special effects that it employs. The closest resembling game would be Taromaru and it was released earlier and probably looks a little less impressive. In terms of purely the 2D sprite aspects, Astal and Princess Crown have it easily beat.

Hmm, but don't you also feel most of the games that got later ports (for Taito Legends, Psikyo Collections, etc) are still best enjoyed on Saturn, because of tate-options, lowres display, extras, etc?

Yeah, but nobody asking this question would really care much about these "minor" aspects. In addition, given that most of these games don't have extras (at least good enough to be worth getting) and PCBs are so cheap and accessible nowadays, it's probably more worth a player's while to just get the board for real accuracy.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:33 pm

Thanks guys!

So i am checking out:

Toaplan Shooting Battle, Starfighter Sanvein, Time Bokan: Bokan to Ippatsu too, Time Bokan: Bokan Desuyo! and Gatchaman, the rest im flushing

I do like cutemups so i might check them out!

Harlequin

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Jeeze you guys are making it so hard for me right now.

I just had to tell my wife NOT to get the Sega Saturn @ Vintage Stock for an Xmas gift for me. Its only $50 for a complete setup which is cheap enuf. But the games are another $50 & up to $200 & Ive just gone thru over $600 in the last couple of months with SNES & N64.

But I want, I want, I want! So no more talking about good games, ok!? Just talk about the bad ones. Please...

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:18 pm

doodude wrote:Jeeze you guys are making it so hard for me right now.

Just wait until we use our right hands and some baby oil.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:32 pm

Damocles wrote:Gatchaman is good, though you'll need to crank up the difficulty.

IIRC the only "difficulty" settings that game has are "Normal" (where it takes a whole bunch of hits to kill you, and you can get energy restoring items) and "Hard" (where one hit instantly ends your game, and basically requires you to get through the whole game without getting hit once). Basically it has "Off" and "Max" with nothing in between - IIRC neither setting actually alters what enemies shoot or anything like that, just how many hits you can take.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:54 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
doodude wrote:Jeeze you guys are making it so hard for me right now.
Just wait until we use our right hands and some baby oil.

PM sent!!! ( just kidding... sort of... )

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:33 pm

There's entirely too much Saturn fanboyism in this thread.

I love my Saturn, and have 60+ games (all Japanese imports) for it, but this idea that there aren't as many good shooters for Playstation, or that it somehow can't handle 2D as well is rubbish.

saturn can do 2D easier, look at any capcom fighter, esp any one that has vs in the titles.

this is untrue, only hardcore Hyper Duel fans would be interested in the differences offered by the Saturn version. This myth that it is 'x10' better serves only to fuel the high prices/collector craziness that currently surrounds it.

ok now this I really don't get, did you play them both? more than a minute?

the music alone is worth it to me but the graphix are better not to mention the hold feature for firing in mech form is better also.

On a side note, saturn vs psx......... STILL going on after all his time. Don't know weather to shake my head or be a little happy over it. Both have alot of great shit on them. And something tells me if you actually care enough to argue over this..... you have both or have owned both at some point in time and had alot of fun with it. both are dirt cheap now, there is no reason not to own both if you really care THAT much to lose sleep over this. Get a saturn for like 30.00 and mod it then get a cheap ass psx or save for a import PS2.

there is shit like batsugan, hyper duel, RSG, Battle Garrega, along with better ports (for all the STV stuff like souky), darius gaiden ect on sat.

psx, well there are some psikyu titles better on psx, then dodonpachi, gradius gaiden ect.

they are both good, but if I had to choose just one I'd go with my saturn. but i'm a sega fanboy and love 2D stuff so I find myself playing my saturn alot more than my ps1 library. still how could I NOT have gradius gaiden and arcade perfect dodonpachi's..... I own both.

Mwhahahahahahaha..... PWN'ed fo' life.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:50 pm

Strider77 wrote: saturn can do 2D easier, look at any capcom fighter, esp any one that has vs in the titles.

Hold on there. While it's true most Capcom fighters were better on the Saturn, a few of them, including the Vs. titles you mentioned, "cheated" by using the 4m RAM expansion for help. A few of the ones without expansion on the Saturn still had missing frames. Of course, the Saturn ones with the expansion are still the preferred versions, but it's worth mentioning that they were helped at bit.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:20 pm

BrianC wrote:Hold on there. While it's true most Capcom fighters were better on the Saturn, a few of them, including the Vs. titles you mentioned, "cheated" by using the 4m RAM expansion for help. A few of the ones without expansion on the Saturn still had missing frames. Of course, the Saturn ones with the expansion are still the preferred versions, but it's worth mentioning that they were helped at bit.

It's not Saturn's fault that the PlayStation wasn't designed for/never had expansion memory availible.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:05 am

Hold on there. While it's true most Capcom fighters were better on the Saturn, a few of them, including the Vs. titles you mentioned, "cheated" by using the 4m RAM expansion for help.

LOL... cheated. That is a first, and that's saying something since this debate is about a decade or more old now.

the saturn's hardware is by nature better at 2D, now weather a programmer was good enough at using it is a diff story.

there is no reason dodonpachi shouldn't have been just as good on the sat, but there are games that came out better on sat that should've been doable on PSX but weren't as good either (samurai showdown 3 on psx had no excuse to look that bad, it could've been done better even on psx). but if we are looking at hardware and that's it.... the saturn was made for it. i don't consider the 4 meg ram cart as cheating, if the psx had a 4 meg ram cart then i'd say that would count also.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:05 am

I havent seen any mention of it so I have to assume that unlike the SNES where you can adjust the US version to play imports, you cant do this with the Sega Saturn or the PS2, correct?

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:16 am

the saturn can be modded easily or just buy a cart converter, one that has the extra ram built in to make things easier also.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:37 am

Is this what you mean by an import card?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Import-SEGA-SATURN- ... dZViewItem

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:49 am

yes that's the 4 meg ram cart, the official one. it works but a US system would have to be modded for that to work.

they make 4meg/converter combo units also. just be sure it's one with the 4 meg cart built in and not the 1 meg if you go that route.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:51 am

Just get a JP system.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:35 am

Limbrooke wrote: It's not Saturn's fault that the PlayStation wasn't designed for/never had expansion memory availible.

LOL... cheated. That is a first, and that's saying something since this debate is about a decade or more old now.

the saturn's hardware is by nature better at 2D, now weather a programmer was good enough at using it is a diff story.

I wasn't saying that it was the Saturn's fault that the PSX never had expansion, nor was I saying that the PSX is better at 2D than the Saturn. I was saying that while the Saturn is better than the PSX at 2D with or without the expansion, the actual abilities of the system aren't reflected by the expansion.

I had the word "cheated" in quotes for a reason. How else was I supposed to say that the Saturn used something extra that enhanced the capabilities of the system and that the 2D abilities, while still great, aren't the same without it? I feel the 4m pack or a cart that has 4m built in is essential for the Saturn, especially for games like Vampire Savior.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:01 am

especially for games like Vampire Savior.

i would say in the psx's case that is even more true, that's why i thought it was funny is all.

DC906270 · Post by **DC906270** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:45 pm

the music alone is worth it to me but the graphix are better not to mention the hold feature for firing in mech form is better also.

yes, but the actual game plays near enough the same, like i said only hardcore Hyper Duel fans would appreciate the differences, for a casual play, MAME gives you 95% Hyper Duel goodness, no need to seek out the Saturn version

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:58 pm

well if you don't care about buying it, an extra gameplay element, beefed up graphix, or better music then yeah it sux on saturn. oh wait I forgot that it had the arcade version to.

seriously if you are just gonna play everything on mame then why post in here. hyper duel is better on the saturn and cost about the same if not less than the PCB. if you are just gonna download for free then why bother talking about it in a psx vs sat thread. besides I paid 49.99 brand new for mine.

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:24 pm

The best thing I like about the Saturn Hyper Duel is the visual pleasure the case artwork and game manual give me. I understand that not everybody gets that feeling and not everyone is willing to pay for it, but I get such a kick out of it I wouldn't do it any other way even if it happened to be the worst version to have. I'm always willing to work a few extra hours if it means that I can actually hold something in my hand and sincerely appreciate it.

Fighter17 wrote: Say no to Planet Joker, and Steam Hearts.

I'll admit to liking Steam Hearts. Divine Sealing on the Megadrive is the only other console shooter like it that I can think of. And while Steam Hearts disappoints with the nippleless breasts (and the mad slowdown at times), I found the whole raping the bosses thing kinda kinky! And I don't blame the boss ladies for being so upset about that wimpy looking Blondia Varady getting the honors! They were probably hoping for a real man with hair on his back or something! But his sister Falla is one tough cookie and she seemed to relish doing all the muscle work. I've heard two trains of thought about Falla. One is that she's a hermaphrodite and that would give Steam Hearts a bit of an Aliens flavoring. 'Cause I remember when Hicks was bragging about that Octurian Poontang he had and when someone reminded him that his was a male he said "It dont matter when its Octurian baby!" LMFAO

Fighter17 wrote: The only good ones are Toaplan Shooting Battle and Starfighter Sanvein. The rest you can forget about it.

I'll be honest and say that I found Toaplan Shooting Battle to be a bit disappointing. I mean I've played Tiger Heli and Twin Cobra (Kyukyoku Tiger) on so many other consoles that I guess I was hoping to see some huge graphical updates or something, but it's just same old same old. It's cool to own though, but just cause it's in short supply.

Damocles wrote: Two-Tenkaku lets you fight Shiva as a final boss...or was it Buddha...either way, that's the only redeeming feature.

I don't think it was Buddha, Buddha helps you in the game and certainly wouldn't be the end boss. Your ship can launch a flaming Buddha area bomb, now I've seen everything! LOL. The part of the game that got my attention the most was when I was fighting a large TV boss. There was some king of program on the TV and I as trying to figure out if it was a news program or what the heck I was watching while it was shooting at me. And of course if you dawdle too long just trying to watch it, these gigantic hands come out from the side of screen and try to smash your ship with a backhanded slap!

Damocles wrote: Something that needs to be said about Gatchaman and the Time Bokan series is that they have a great visual style that's not too serious.

I agree. I thought the Time Bokan series had terrific visuals and though I don't know any of the characters, I found them very amusing in the game anime. In Gatchaman, the characters don bird masks and capes before heading into battle. LOL I've never seen Battle of the Planets, but the catch phrase "Sometimes one, sometimes five; the white shadow that moves unseen..." actually makes some sense playing the game.

Harlequin wrote:
Spartacus wrote: Gaia Seed, Marchen Adventure , X2: No Relief, Toaplan Shooting Battle, Two-Tenkaku, Stahlfeder, Meta-Ph-List u.X.2297, Air Grave, EOS: Edge Of Skyhigh, Shooter: Space Shot, Starfighter Sanvein, Time Bokan: Bokan to Ippatsu too, Time Bokan: Bokan Desuyo!, Kyuiin, Geppy-X: '70s Robot Anime, Gatchaman, Dezaemon Kids!, Dezaemon Plus, 3D shooting Tsukuru
Ok, I have havent heard of any of these and i thought i had a decent
PSX collection for Shmups, are any of these worth trying?
Harlequin

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:20 pm

Excellent links Spartacus, thanks for the info...

Post by **spadgy** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:14 pm

doodude wrote:Excellent links Spartacus, thanks for the info...

Yes - incredibly helpful. So much I still need to invest in...

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:38 pm

Spartacus wrote:Shooter: Starfighter Sanvein
http://www.netjak.com/review.php/832

Wow... that's a pretty terrible review of Sanvein... maybe you should try reading one by somebody who actually understood how to play the game...:
http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy.com ... index.html