XRGB-mini Framemeister

[RushJet1]

I don't know if it's somewhere else in this thread, and I've looked but there are 200+ pages, so here's my problem:

Composite output on the Genesis to the XRGB-mini has colors flicker all over the place. I have both a model-1 and model-2 Genesis, and both exhibit the same behavior. I have a video of this in action (the title screen shows it off best). Please excuse the actual color temps as the settings were messed up when I recorded this, but it happens even when the colors look correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TUhzbCml3s

Any ideas why it does this with the XRGB? If I hook it up to my TV, the colors are fine but then it looks way uglier + more input lag than HDMI, so the XRGB is better.

The Framemeister picks up the finer details on how bad Genesis composite picture quality is. You need to get an RGB SCART or JP21 cable. If you go the SCART route, you'll need to get a SCART adapter for the Framemeister. If you go the JP21 route, it will work with the adapter that comes with the Framemeister.

Now the Framemeister does have some inherent flicker in solid colors, but it's nowhere near as bad as in that video.

I bit the bullet and bought a JP-21 RGB cable for my model 1, and it turned out well. Setting horizontal scaling to 17 makes the dithering/transparencies mostly work as intended.

Sorry for bad phone camera quality, will capture with elgato later:

"Auto" H-scaling

H-scaler at 17

My camera really butchered the bottom shot though, so again I'll get more direct footage later.

[FBX]

I bit the bullet and bought a JP-21 RGB cable for my model 1, and it turned out well. Setting horizontal scaling to 17 makes the dithering/transparencies mostly work as intended.

Sorry for bad phone camera quality, will capture with elgato later:

"Auto" H-scaling

H-scaler at 17

My camera really butchered the bottom shot though, so again I'll get more direct footage later.

Well the transparencies were a gimmick that relied on the poor quality of the composite cable. I myself prefer razor sharp pixels, and I don't mind the transparencies being reveled to be alternating lines of pixels. The vast majority of the Genesis library doesn't rely on such a gimmick, and so I get a lot more enjoyment being able to see sharp detail. The scaler settings for that are H_Scaler = 4 and V_Scaler = 6.

[RushJet1]

I bit the bullet and bought a JP-21 RGB cable for my model 1, and it turned out well. Setting horizontal scaling to 17 makes the dithering/transparencies mostly work as intended.

Sorry for bad phone camera quality, will capture with elgato later:

"Auto" H-scaling

H-scaler at 17

My camera really butchered the bottom shot though, so again I'll get more direct footage later.

Well the transparencies were a gimmick that relied on the poor quality of the composite cable. I myself prefer razor sharp pixels, and I don't mind the transparencies being reveled to be alternating lines of pixels. The vast majority of the Genesis library doesn't rely on such a gimmick, and so I get a lot more enjoyment being able to see sharp detail. The scaler settings for that are H_Scaler = 4 and V_Scaler = 6.

A lot of games use dithering in some form though, and look ugly to me without any blurring. I will probably keep it at 17.

[FBX]

I bit the bullet and bought a JP-21 RGB cable for my model 1, and it turned out well. Setting horizontal scaling to 17 makes the dithering/transparencies mostly work as intended.

Sorry for bad phone camera quality, will capture with elgato later:

"Auto" H-scaling

H-scaler at 17

My camera really butchered the bottom shot though, so again I'll get more direct footage later.

Well the transparencies were a gimmick that relied on the poor quality of the composite cable. I myself prefer razor sharp pixels, and I don't mind the transparencies being reveled to be alternating lines of pixels. The vast majority of the Genesis library doesn't rely on such a gimmick, and so I get a lot more enjoyment being able to see sharp detail. The scaler settings for that are H_Scaler = 4 and V_Scaler = 6.

A lot of games use dithering in some form though, and look ugly to me without any blurring. I will probably keep it at 17.

To each their own. I prefer seeing every little detail of dithering. You could on higher quality CRTs and arcade monitors, so it doesn't bother me to see it now.

[austin532]

I bit the bullet and bought a JP-21 RGB cable for my model 1, and it turned out well. Setting horizontal scaling to 17 makes the dithering/transparencies mostly work as intended.

Sorry for bad phone camera quality, will capture with elgato later:

"Auto" H-scaling

H-scaler at 17

My camera really butchered the bottom shot though, so again I'll get more direct footage later.

Well the transparencies were a gimmick that relied on the poor quality of the composite cable.

Thank you. Glad someone else agrees with me. It's so obvious this was the case and I don't know why people insist on arguing about it. The color bleed and blur of Composite would blend the two pixel colors together to either create a color the system was not capable of outputting or create a transparency effect.

[RushJet1]

Here's the capture from my Elgato:

https://youtu.be/sq2wb4XSQpw

Interestingly the Elgato makes the scanlines look terrible on darker colors - guess its compression algorithm isn't preserving that very well, because it looks great on my TV.

Since H_Scaling is at 17 transparency effects look correct.

One thing that keeps happening since I got this cable is the video will jump back 2 frames every few seconds. This is most noticeable when running - you can see it (at 60fps) in the video at 33 seconds just after Sonic jumps into the tubes. This happens both with video capture and on my TV, and in both Sonic 1 and 2.

edit: fixed the above by putting SYNC_TIME back to "3"

[FBX]

edit: fixed the above by putting SYNC_TIME back to "3"

It's a known error in the Framemeister's programming. Sync_Time beyond 3 will turn off auto sync and revert to frame skipping like emulators do.

At any rate, you've got all sorts of overscan and pixel garbage. You might should consider downloading my profiles from my web page. They mask off all the overscan areas, and offer 4x and 5x scale versions for both 256 and 320 modes of the Genesis. You can always change the H and V_Scaler settings back to the way you like.

[hipstir]

FBX,

Have you had a chance to look at the scanline issue with 480p content? Specifically xbox. Thanks!

[rayik]

Got the mini in today. Connected a Sega Genesis and used FBX's GEN5X320 profile. Took a bit to get mini set right with the profile. Was blown away by the great picture once I set hdmi output to 1080p and zoom to on. Tried same profile with two other 240p systems: Atari Jaguar and an rgb modded US Turbografx 16. I don't remember the picture ever looking so good.

Thank you FBX for making the profiles.!

For anyone with a turbogrfax16 or PC engine, I recommend the TGezRGB rgb mod here: http://www.lowbudgetify.com/turbografx- ... e-rgb.html along with Tim Worthington's jailbreak fix here: http://etim.net.au/av-driver/pcebars/. The TGezRGB rgb modworks with the CD attachment.

Looking forward to spending tweaking the picture. Initial impression is that the mini's settings are not very intuitive. With FBX genesis profile the three 240p systems I tried look just perfect. Thank you again FBX

[FBX]

FBX,

Have you had a chance to look at the scanline issue with 480p content? Specifically xbox. Thanks!

Sorry I had gotten sidetracked. I'm currently developing a suite of PSP profiles specifically using the PSPgo's Component output. I will get back to that as soon as I finish up with the PSP. Give me a few days on that.

[Valandil]

Hello everyone! I have a quick question hopefully you can help me. For some reason when I go to the Framemesiter "Sync Set" menu to adjust the Sync level the option is greyed out (stuck on 9) and I can't adjust the sync level manually. I tried turning sync mode to auto and off and still nothing.

I'm on the latest FW 2.02 using FBX profiles on a ps2 through the official sony component cable playing PS1 games.

Have any of you had this issue before or know what I'm doing wrong that doesn't let me change the sync value?

Thanks a bunch in advance guys!

[Fudoh]

Sync Level adjustment is only available for RGB signals. Do you have problems with your component signal ?

[Valandil]

Sync Level adjustment is only available for RGB signals. Do you have problems with your component signal ?

Oh man that sucks. Yeah I've been having problems specifically playing Lunar on PS2, when the screen scrolls horizontally I get this shimmering in the top of the screen that gets really annoying. Actually the guys from My Life in gaming mention this problem in their Playstation episode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7fCTHu99bk), on 11:48 while talking about playing physycal discs on a PS3, they mention that due to uneven scaling done by the PS3 playing PS1 physical copies can cause shimmering with screen scrolling, my issue is identical playing Lunar but the odd thing is that it happens when I’m using the Framemeister on a PS2 over component; playing it in the PS3 (HDMI or the same component cables) comes out without any shimmering at all.

This is specifically playing Lunar and doesn’t seem to happen with other games I’ve tried. It happens when using the framemeister in either 720p/1080p. I use FBX profiles but for this I've tried with different settings including default, unfortunately the results are the same. I've also tried on 2 hdtvs I have at home making sure none of them is doing any extra/unnecessary processing to the image.

I've researched on this and narrowing down the options it looks like it could be the sync level (at least that's what I think), unless you guys have a better theory. The video mentions that this shimmering is because "Scaling is uneven, meaning that pixel shape is inconsistent across the screen which can cause shimmering issues with screen scrolling".

Thanks for the response Fudoh! Any idea you (or anyone here) may have to fix this will be greatly appreciated!

[Fudoh]

I've researched on this and narrowing down the options it looks like it could be the sync level (at least that's what I think)

no, that's not it. You adjust the sync level if you get complete dropouts in between gameplay.

I'm not sure what you're seeing or how it could only affect a single game. Have you checked how the H_SCALER settings affects what you're seeing ?

[FBX]

Yeah I've been having problems specifically playing Lunar on PS2, when the screen scrolls horizontally I get this shimmering in the top of the screen that gets really annoying.

Is it the very top line of graphics? I do know that the PS2 has some problems with certain games, where the top line of graphics shimmers. This cannot be fixed though, only hidden from view. Let me know if this sounds right or you are experiencing the issue from a much larger portion of the top of the screen.

[austin532]

Valandil, have you tried adjusting the H and V Scaler settings? Since Lunar is a 240p game the H should be either 4 or 5 and V should be 6 or 7. If you are using FBX's profiles be sure to use the one called PS1PS2PR as it's optimized for playing PS1 games on PS2. Also it's important that you turn on Zoom and leave the Zoom settings at their default values. Also make sure the Image mode is set to Picture for best results. Be sure to leave Sync Mode on Auto as turning it off will cause the image to stutter when the image is scrolling.

[FBX]

The PSPgo profiles suite is finished!

Code: Select all

Note: Set the PSP to expect 16:9 AR for all modes below:


PSP3XNPR = Native PSP In-game 3x mode Progressive.

PSP4XPPR = PS1 4x mode Progressive. (suggested scanline INTs of 70, 127)

PSP5XPPR = PS1 5x mode Progressive. (Suggested scanline DECs of 127, 80, 127)

PSP4XNPR = (Framemeister set to 16:9 AR) Native PSP In-Game 4x mode Progressive. (Fills the screen!)

PSP4XPIN = PS1 4x mode Interlaced (suggested scanline INTs of 70, 110)

PSP5XPIN = PS1 5x mode Interlaced 

Also of important note is that I now do all my profiling via DVI 1920x1080 mode. This is because of the already mentioned issue of HDMI 1080p mode incorrectly converting colors in RGB mode. I recommend everyone that is using 1080p profiles make the switch to 1080p DVI. This will get rid of overblown greens and dulled reds for example.

If you've not made the switch, you will likely need to hook your Framemeister into a PC monitor so you can see to navigate to 1920x1080 DVI mode. This is because DVI mode defaults to something like 1024x768 when you first make the switch, which will cause the screen to go blank on most HDTVs. Once you set the resolution to 1920x1080, you can then hook the Framemeister back up to your HDTV and it will work with no problems (and finally correct color output).

[austin532]

I am able to switch to DVI 1920 x 1080 just fine on my TV.

[FBX]

I am able to switch to DVI 1920 x 1080 just fine on my TV.

I can't assume that will be the case for everybody, since mine could not handle the default 1024x768, yet my PC monitor could.

One other thing I need to mention for the PSPgo profiles: For PS1 gaming, the Interlaced mode profiles are recommended. You get a sharper picture for PS1 gaming from that mode's profiles.

[Guspaz]

Here's some irony: I used to have a TV that would *only* accept 1024x768 from a computer, even though it was a 720p (1366x768) panel

[FBX]

Profiles updated:

Fixed all four XBox profiles to have uniform scanlines when applied.

[Andyp]

Hi, I have been having the same flickering screen issues with PAL ps1, ps2, GameCube and mega drive!

My other consoles work fine. Snes, pc engine, Saturn and dreamcast.
I have bought new RGB cables as I was using cheap ones but this hasn't made any difference!

Will the FBX Profile make a difference and is there a link to them? I've tried searching.

Thanks

Andyp

Not so hard to find, here they are: http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... ofiles.zip

Note that these are only for NTSC systems... They worked for me (i'm on PAL too), but you need to adjust the zoom settings to fit the screen.

Thanks for the profiles but they haven't made any difference! No picture at all until I turn Sync off

I had the PS1 working ok then tried it a few days later and back to the same flicker. Its driving me mad! I'm inputting via RGB Euro Scart

I have uploaded a short clip to Youtube - https://youtu.be/mqIbA7ScmVY

Thanks, Andy

[FBX]

Hi, I have been having the same flickering screen issues with PAL ps1, ps2, GameCube and mega drive!

My other consoles work fine. Snes, pc engine, Saturn and dreamcast.
I have bought new RGB cables as I was using cheap ones but this hasn't made any difference!

Will the FBX Profile make a difference and is there a link to them? I've tried searching.

Thanks

Andyp

Not so hard to find, here they are: http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... ofiles.zip

Note that these are only for NTSC systems... They worked for me (i'm on PAL too), but you need to adjust the zoom settings to fit the screen.

Thanks for the profiles but they haven't made any difference! No picture at all until I turn Sync off

I had the PS1 working ok then tried it a few days later and back to the same flicker. Its driving me mad! I'm inputting via RGB Euro Scart

I have uploaded a short clip to Youtube - https://youtu.be/mqIbA7ScmVY

Thanks, Andy

Wow that's really messed up. I've never seen that happen on a Framemeister. Possible reasons:

1. Your TV has something it doesn't like about the Framemeister.

2. Your Framemeister is screwed up.

3. Something wrong with your cables.

It can't be the consoles because you get that flickering in multiple different ones.

[Andyp]

The cables are new from Retro Gaming Cables

I've tried it on another tv and same issues.

Works perfect on PC engine, Snes, Saturn and Dreamcast!

Just the PS1, PS2, GC and MD that flicker!

Sounds like I should send it back!?

[rtw]

The cables are new from Retro Gaming Cables

If it's this company: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/, open the connectors and check that it's soldered correctly. A friend of mine got his cable with 3 loose connections.

[axlblazeadam]

The cables are new from Retro Gaming Cables

I've tried it on another tv and same issues.

Works perfect on PC engine, Snes, Saturn and Dreamcast!

Just the PS1, PS2, GC and MD that flicker!

Sounds like I should send it back!?

It would be a real real real big coincidence if all your PS1, PS2, GC and MD cables from Retro Gaming Cables are defective.

Probably the Framemeister itself (i know you don't want to hear that).

Did you try to hook up the systems without the Framemeister? Even just to check if it flickers too?

[Andyp]

Yes! No flicker when hooked up to scart on tv!

[axlblazeadam]

Yes! No flicker when hooked up to scart on tv!

Then it's most likely that it's your Framemeister or the Framemeister settings with those consoles.

You probably tried various settings, but did you try to completely reset the Framemeister?

[Valandil]

no, that's not it. You adjust the sync level if you get complete dropouts in between gameplay.

I'm not sure what you're seeing or how it could only affect a single game. Have you checked how the H_SCALER settings affects what you're seeing ?

Is it the very top line of graphics? I do know that the PS2 has some problems with certain games, where the top line of graphics shimmers. This cannot be fixed though, only hidden from view. Let me know if this sounds right or you are experiencing the issue from a much larger portion of the top of the screen.

Valandil, have you tried adjusting the H and V Scaler settings? Since Lunar is a 240p game the H should be either 4 or 5 and V should be 6 or 7. If you are using FBX's profiles be sure to use the one called PS1PS2PR as it's optimized for playing PS1 games on PS2. Also it's important that you turn on Zoom and leave the Zoom settings at their default values. Also make sure the Image mode is set to Picture for best results. Be sure to leave Sync Mode on Auto as turning it off will cause the image to stutter when the image is scrolling.

Thanks guys, I tried adjusting the H_SCALER and V_SCALER and couldn't really notice a change in the shimmering/stuttering that I'm seeing, I went to both extremes and the issue was still showing. It's on the very top of the screen maybe 1-1.5 inches that I see this happening but you are right FBX the top line looks to shimmer more noticeably. I noticed that it also happens when scrolling vertically although with much less frequency.

I'm using FBX profiles and I'm certain to be following the instructions (1080p display, PS2PSCOM profile which gives H=4 V=7 with display area -1 and zoom enabled). Do you think that this is being caused by the PS2, cables or Framemeister? Maybe getting RGB cables and/or a PS1 could get rid of this?

I know that it's hard to imagine what I'm seeing on my end with my poor description, unfortunately I don't have a capture device. I tried getting a video with my cellphone but it doesn't really come through; in the video from My Life in Gaming you can briefly see this stutter/shimmering. Minute 11:49 - https://youtu.be/f7fCTHu99bk?t=11m49s that's what I'm seeing. Any additional ideas/theories on why this might be happening and how to get rid of it? It's really strange that so far Lunar is the only game I'm seeing this on, I tried FFVI also for the playstation with the same setup and it shows perfect.

Thanks again for the help and your ideas!

[FBX]

My web site appears to be inexplicably down right now. For those needing access to my profiles in the mean time:

http://filetrip.net/dl?by5bKdFdct

Edit: Web site back up. No idea what that was all about.