GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

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BIL
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Re: GamerGate

Post by BIL »

I've little interest in Allison Rapp. But as a schadenfreude enthusiast, I will say that given her job she showed remarkably poor judgement tweeting some of the things she did from her public account. I've read her thesis and while saying it "promotes child porn" is extremely misleading*, it is an inherently hot potato and referring to it in this context:

Image

(article in tweet)

is a profoundly bad idea for a PR employee of a "family friendly" company in any cultural climate - let alone one as bellicose as this. "Handing a loaded assault rifle to a chimpanzee" bad. Done out of arrogance, conviction or innocent stupidity, I don't care. As Joe Pesci remarked in Casino I would not trust her with cup of fuckin coffee.

(edit to above: or, given she joined the company in 2013, leaving the tweet unburnt and continuing to use the account. Still incredibly foolish).

*the apparently trendy cause of paedophile apologism is one of the few things about this bunfight I find really disturbing. I'm not sure she is of the same truly depraved ilk of VIRPED/co and enablers, however.
Last edited by BIL on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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opt2not
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Re: GamerGate

Post by opt2not »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Pretty typical, at this point.

We're at such a weird time, where gamers and game journos basically hate each other.
I've always hated game journalists, if you can even call them that.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by evil_ash_xero »

opt2not wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:Pretty typical, at this point.

We're at such a weird time, where gamers and game journos basically hate each other.
I've always hated game journalists, if you can even call them that.

Back in the olden days, they weren't professional either, but came across like actual gamers. Like you could relate to them. Now it's just a bunch of moral grandstanding, and sneering at those of us who didn't drink the Kool-Aid.
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Bananamatic
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Bananamatic »

goddamn i hate those people
nothing but smug, self righteous posting on twitter acting like hot shit 24/7 and getting upset over everything

that alone should get her fired from being a PR rep, especially in such a huge company
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Re: GamerGate

Post by louisg »

BIL wrote:I've little interest in Allison Rapp. But as a schadenfreude enthusiast, I will say that given her job she showed remarkably poor judgement tweeting some of the things she did from her public account. I've read her thesis and while saying it "promotes child porn" is extremely misleading*, it is an inherently hot potato and referring to it in this context:
There were a lot of eyebrow-raising posts saying stuff like "don't hate on men who like kids" and "this kind of legal bullshit pisses me off"-- and here's the "legal bullshit" in question:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/06/us/califo ... ?hpt=hp_t2

So, uh, yeah. I dunno. That combined with the thesis and a handful of other posts are kinda setting off NAMBLA alarms for me, even though I'm honestly undecided when it comes to cartoons and possession laws (whatever helps protect real-life kids from predators the best is the best policy IMO, and it's not a topic I've looked into much). It sounds like what eventually happened is that Wayne Foundation found out about her stance, contacted Nintendo, and that was that. Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone in the role she was in would expect *not* to be fired for this.

On the other hand, I think it's a bit hypocritical for people who are into loli anime BS to suddenly be concerned about cartoon images of underage relationships. My personal taste is I find all that stuff kinda gross and weird (I really wish Deathsmiles hadn't been translated! D:).

Here's the Wayne Foundation.. seems legit..?
http://waynefdn.org/about-twf/
https://www.facebook.com/thewaynefoundation
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Re: GamerGate

Post by ryu »

On the other hand, I think it's a bit hypocritical for people who are into loli anime BS to suddenly be concerned about cartoon images of underage relationships.
People believe Rapp is in support of real life relationships with real prepubertary (for some "minor") children.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by louisg »

ryu wrote:
On the other hand, I think it's a bit hypocritical for people who are into loli anime BS to suddenly be concerned about cartoon images of underage relationships.
People believe Rapp is in support of real life relationships with real prepubertary (for some "minor") children.
Yeah, and honestly if you read the tweets, that's not a far-fetched conclusion to come to given how they were phrased and everything.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

Some guy cancels Wii U game in response to Rapp's firing.

All this is so ridiculous I can't help but chew the popcorn.

I thought women were wily torturers of the men who go to great lengths to pander for their affections, human powerhouses capable of carrying and then giving birth to other humans through ungodly agonising pain, maternal soldiers cradling both children and husbands simultaneously, all the while ready to deal a poison tongue to any gender that happens to put a dent in their day.

I must have missed the memo where men have in fact reduced them to feeble, helpless and subservient slaves, dragging them around by the hair for laughs and freely fucking them over the workplace photocopier to the jeers and cheers of onlooking male colleagues.

This entire Gamergate thing is only as real as the parties who credit it with some kind of meaningful direction. Really it's just a house of cards built from children and adult-babies bullshitting over social media to fill the empty cavity where their brains used to be, ignorant entirely of the world at-large and problems far bigger than an ass in spandex.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPOla9SEdXQ

Tropes vs Women in Video Games Season Two: More of the Same AKA prequel to 'Strategic Butt Coverings' teh movie


This episode: Be disgusted that women have asscheeks.

It's lewd and unnatural, all of it! If you even so much as fire your MALE GAZETM at an "exaggerated hipsway" ever again you had better wash your eyes out with soap you dirty birdy.
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BIL
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Re: GamerGate

Post by BIL »

Juanita's played-out tbh. Hucksterism worn thin, down to the bone. 3:

Much more amusing are the antics surrounding her recent kickstarter. The expression "weaponised charity" has been hurled at the shitlords, unironically. :wink:

As in, women who literally don't have a bucket to shit in getting charity is bad because naughty naughty neckbears are doing the donating.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

Thats nothing. I just cancelled ten games you didn't know about. Phil Fish would be proud!
Whats obnoxious about this piece is not just the faux-virtue signalling but the overuse of the made up verb 'tweet'. Holy fuck, if Twitter isn't the perfect punishment for these egotists. What kind of narcissist is willing to carry a portable harassment tool around with them around all day just so they can constantly remind the rest of the world how progressive they are? It must be like living in a never ending Halo match, having that thing go off in your ear every second. Only way for Twitter to be redeemed now is if it turns out to be some sort of eugenics tool and after it collects enough data it will decide whose phone to detonate.
Skykid wrote:I thought women were wily torturers of the men who go to great lengths to pander for their affections, human powerhouses capable of carrying and then giving birth to other humans through ungodly agonising pain, maternal soldiers cradling both children and husbands simultaneously, all the while ready to deal a poison tongue to any gender that happens to put a dent in their day.

I must have missed the memo where men have in fact reduced them to feeble, helpless and subservient slaves, dragging them around by the hair for laughs and freely fucking them over the workplace photocopier to the jeers and cheers of onlooking male colleagues.
Men’s greatest weakness is their facade of strength, and women’s greatest strength is their facade of weakness.

Anita's video: illustrates a 'trope' competently, uses made up terms like 'male gaze' and 'objectification' though - the former term now used to control male sexual agency via shaming and demonisation. Anita wants to eradicate male sexual agency [6:08] which I'd argue might be a bit more harmful to people than ogling cartoon tits. Cartoons can't be objectified, they are already objects. When we jerk it to Lara Croft or whatever you sick fucks are into nowadays, we anthropomorphise them.

In lighter news - Play Asia April Fools:

Image
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BIL
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Re: GamerGate

Post by BIL »

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:Play Asia April Fools
:lol:

listen & believe, owch! lovin' the rice burn! ImageImageImage

The stalwart DPRK News Service had it right! As usual!

Image

NUKE SAN FRAN AND ANNEX HONG KONG ALREADY
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Skykid
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

That April Fool is the best thing Play Asia have ever done, assuming they're responsible for it?
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qmish
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Re: GamerGate

Post by qmish »

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:Its 2014 and people still read RPS?
It still has some nice articles on relatively unknown games and/or indies (like that Devil Daggers post) from time to time, but comment sections is poison.

I'll alway respect them for this

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/0 ... -the-body/
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/0 ... -the-mind/
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/0 ... -the-soul/
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Re: GamerGate

Post by system11 »

Oh wow. Play-Asia I love you.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

system11 wrote:Oh wow. Play-Asia I love you.
I only just twigged:

Softer

Joining

Watchdog


:lol:
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e_tank
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Re: GamerGate

Post by e_tank »

ryu wrote:
On the other hand, I think it's a bit hypocritical for people who are into loli anime BS to suddenly be concerned about cartoon images of underage relationships.
People believe Rapp is in support of real life relationships with real prepubertary (for some "minor") children.
by ppl you mean neo-nazi white supremacists (warning: link to pro-racism news site) who go around targeting feminists? look i get it, it was clearly her own loud mouth that ultimately got her canned, but come on this was a hit job by a bunch of openly racist & misogynist right wingers. if they hadn't slapped a giant fucking target on her back and blown the gg dog whistle in order to get morons who are incapable of thinking for themselves to pounce on her, her outside activities would've probably flown under the radar at nintendo.

i don't agree with all of her views nor will i lose sleep over this brat getting fired, what really bothers me is how easily a bunch of truest in the sense of the word monsters were able to lie and manipulate so many so easily in order to do their bidding. this episode really paints gg in a bad light, it's supposed to be against attempting to get ppl fired for having views deemed problematic and against media censorship / forcing political views down other ppls throats, those who did this in the name of gg did so against those values. *sigh* in the end i guess gg is a lot like the republican party, while not all republicans are racists and/or misogynists, if you are one you're probably a republican..


on a lighter note loooooove that play-asia april fools day prank, that shit is pure gold
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

Gamergate doesn't really exist. It isn't a tangible thing. It's just a few proactive antagonists acting supertroll the way they always have that are keeping the phantom alive.

Those guys do this for sport. If it wasn't game related it would be something else.
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Durandal
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Durandal »

e_tank wrote:
ryu wrote:
On the other hand, I think it's a bit hypocritical for people who are into loli anime BS to suddenly be concerned about cartoon images of underage relationships.
People believe Rapp is in support of real life relationships with real prepubertary (for some "minor") children.
by ppl you mean neo-nazi white supremacists (warning: link to pro-racism news site) who go around targeting feminists? look i get it, it was clearly her own loud mouth that ultimately got her canned, but come on this was a hit job by a bunch of openly racist & misogynist right wingers. if they hadn't slapped a giant fucking target on her back and blown the gg dog whistle in order to get morons who are incapable of thinking for themselves to pounce on her, her outside activities would've probably flown under the radar at nintendo.
I don't really see what GamerGate actually had to do with it, they called for her dismissal on grounds of 'supporting pedophilia' or some such, and she got fired for moonlighting. GamerGate called for the takedown of Gawker because of constant breaches of ethics, but it was Hulk Hogan who slamjammed them in the end. There's not alot of proof GamerGate was directly responsible for these things happening even though they called out for it. The argument goes that GamerGate 'snitched' her out, although I wouldn't say that condemning someone because he 'snitched' someone else for breaking the rules exactly gives you the moral high ground. At most it makes the other person an antfucker.
i don't agree with all of her views nor will i lose sleep over this brat getting fired, what really bothers me is how easily a bunch of truest in the sense of the word monsters were able to lie and manipulate so many so easily in order to do their bidding. this episode really paints gg in a bad light, it's supposed to be against attempting to get ppl fired for having views deemed problematic and against media censorship / forcing political views down other ppls throats, those who did this in the name of gg did so against those values. *sigh* in the end i guess gg is a lot like the republican party, while not all republicans are racists and/or misogynists, if you are one you're probably a republican..
Who lied and manipulated who? Was it Kotaku for leading everyone to believe Rapp got fired for being a woman when Nintendo themselves stated otherwise?
I can't say firing someone for their personal views is a good thing, although putting someone with controversial opinions who also moonlights as a camgirl in a position of PR and marketing for a company with a strong family-friendly image isn't exactly the smartest thing to do from a business standpoint. Going after someone for 'supporting pedophilia' isn't exactly the same thing as going after someone for merely disagreeing with you either. A professional PR person would have kept his personal life and his job seperate, and would rather avoid causing controversy if it doesn't end up being profitable in some way.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Skykid wrote:Gamergate doesn't really exist. It isn't a tangible thing. It's just a few proactive antagonists acting supertroll the way they always have that are keeping the phantom alive.

Those guys do this for sport. If it wasn't game related it would be something else.
I dunno about that one. Many people, myself included, didn't care whatsoever about this stuff, until it started infringing on our hobby. I'm a really apathetic guy, who will avoid shit like this at almost every turn. But they're hitting me where I live.

Also, Play Asia are amazing. I have some recent shipments from them, that have those DOAX3 Are you beach body ready? stickers. Brilliant. :D

For being based in Hong Kong, whoever is writing this stuff, has an excellent grasp of English and Western humor.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
Skykid wrote:Gamergate doesn't really exist. It isn't a tangible thing. It's just a few proactive antagonists acting supertroll the way they always have that are keeping the phantom alive.

Those guys do this for sport. If it wasn't game related it would be something else.
I dunno about that one. Many people, myself included, didn't care whatsoever about this stuff, until it started infringing on our hobby. I'm a really apathetic guy, who will avoid shit like this at almost every turn. But they're hitting me where I live.
But I'm in the same boat as you. This entire circus of entities - many of whom couldn't care less about gaming except as a banner for public flogging - is completely bemusing to me. But having rationality doesn't constitute being an antagonist. You're not out to denigrate women or ethnic minorities in-between your gaming rounds, you just have a position of sanity.

"Gamergate", unlike Watergate, is not really a tangible thing. It's neither akin to a political party singing from the same hymn sheet or a worthwhile scandal. It's just some guys here being jackasses, some guys there being jackasses, and a whole bunch in the middle wondering what the fuck is going on.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by mamboFoxtrot »

^ I feel this about almost every "movement" lately. None of them have any real appointed leadership, and as such just all end up being dominated by loudmouth nutters with utterly incompatible ideologies, waiting to be picked by the opposing side as evidence of their Obvious Wrongness.

Not sure if this goes here or "Shitstorm of the Week", but controversy around the Siege of Dragonspear expansion pack for Baldur's Gate recently exploded. Review sections on GOG and Steam are getting flooded, most of them being the extreme 1 or 5 stars variety, trying to "balance the others out".

http://www.craveonline.com/entertainmen ... r#/slide/1

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/0 ... the-point/

While the anti-GG line focuses solely on the complaints surrounding one trans npc, the other side complains of the writing being mediocre, with out-of-place memes, drastic personality changes to some existing characters, and also feeling that the trans character is handled clumsily and doesn't make a lot of sense in a world with gender-bending magic (+ the fact that there are no negative dialogue options with her). Also, lots of complaints about bugs and extreme linearity. Unless they have been deleted, the number of reviews that bash the game solely for the trans character and other "SJW bullshit" seems to have been somewhat, but not entirely, exaggerated. On the flip side, I have seen comments from neutral or anti-GG people saying that the writing/sjw-stuff and bug complaints are also exaggerated.

I haven't started playing the original BG games yet, so I don't really have any need of an opinion on this yet, but if I did, I'd probably feel a little bit like this poor hapless GOG reviewer: (though, a "right to know" is kinda pushing it)
Mechanor33 wrote:I don't own this game and i can make a review of it ! How much of the reviews before mine are from true owners and players of this game ? GOG what are you going to do to stop this scandalous campaign against this game ? Who are the wrong ones ? The good or the bad reviews ? I'm a neutral customer and i have the right to know the truth without paying 20 bucks !
However, even with a site like Steam where you need to be an owner of the game, it's hard to tell which reviews are being honest, and which are being excessively positive or negative for the sake of politics. Honestly, while I'm not going to bother calling myself pro- or anti-GG, I do find the review-bombing (not just for this, but the other times this has happened) a bit ironic, given the "ethics in gaming journalism" tagline. I guess that just goes back to these movements being amorphous clouds of only vaguely-defined "ideals" that many self-proclaimed members do not fully believe or understand.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

From that Crave article:
Our take:

It's odd that in a fantasy game featuring giant ogres and dragons, the appearance of a transgender character is where so many draw the line in terms of realism. While complaining about the game's writing is one thing, this clear attempt to damage its success as a result of it including a transgender NPC is very disappointing and, considering it is being staged by a group that supposedly champions developers' artistic freedom, quite ironic.

Given that Mizhena is a minor NPC in the game and can be completely overlooked, that the exchange between her and the player is what has inspired so many to leave such negative user reviews, strongly suggests that those who are angered only believe in developers' artistic freedom when those developers are creating things that they personally agree with. Also, considering that GamerGate presents itself as a movement fighting against a culture of outrage all too willing to feign offence, it's also curious that the movement cannot take a joke at its own expense.
What they don't understand is that the reaction is reactionary. It's not that they're taking offence to a trans character, they're taking offence to the Social Justice movement manifesting itself politically in the content of their games.

If this character had appeared prior to Gamergate and all this third wave feminist insanity, nobody would have batted an eyelid. I don't care about a LGBT character being in a game, but I don't like the idea that the inclusion is based on politics rather than creative flair.

The issue now is that everything in gaming that represents trans, homosexuality or feminism in any way is going to be perceived as an attack regardless of the intent. Who's to know if the inclusion of an LGBT element is ever going to be honest creativity when the climate is so edgy? To gamers this kind of character is seen as an act of hubris, and not included for the sake of good writing.

The public are speaking. A violent vocal body may be demanding the inclusion of diversity in gaming, but they remain a minority voice no matter how loud they shout. The response to Baldur's Gate being an all out destruction of its sale prospects is clear as a bell: your target audience aren't fucking interested. They're not interested in Anita Sarkeesian's input, the SJW brigade's doctrines or feminist totalitarianism. They just want well made games with stuff to kill and the occasional hot piece of ass to distract them from their adventuring. If they want change, it will be the majority asking for it. Until then these developers are living dangerously by pandering to the minority.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by BulletMagnet »

Skykid wrote:I don't care about a LGBT character being in a game, but I don't like the idea that the inclusion is based on politics rather than creative flair.
I can understand this position, but I think it's worthwhile to ask whether both can be happening at the same time, i.e. (reasonable) calls for more diversity in character rosters might get a creator to say "hm, character abc might actually work better as an xyz" to an extent he might not have thought of otherwise. No such decision is made entirely in a vacuum, so should designers who elect to respond to the overall climate in such a way be automatically denounced as "compromised" or "pandering" or the like?
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Skykid »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Skykid wrote:I don't care about a LGBT character being in a game, but I don't like the idea that the inclusion is based on politics rather than creative flair.
I can understand this position, but I think it's worthwhile to ask whether both can be happening at the same time, i.e. (reasonable) calls for more diversity in character rosters might get a creator to say "hm, character abc might actually work better as an xyz" to an extent he might not have thought of otherwise. No such decision is made entirely in a vacuum, so should designers who elect to respond to the overall climate in such a way be automatically denounced as "compromised" or "pandering" or the like?
Like I said, had this inclusive diversity occurred prior to Gamergate, there would be no backlash.

The problem is the social justice/third wave feminist movement is now officially toxic. People hate it and everything it represents. It's doing a huge disservice to minority groups by making them the principal of white knighting that they have no vested part of. The war is being waged on YouTube - the largest possible internet battleground - and the social justice gang are getting battered from all sides. They're losing the opinion game so seriously it practically constitutes abuse in itself.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by louisg »

e_tank wrote:this episode really paints gg in a bad light, it's supposed to be against attempting to get ppl fired for having views deemed problematic and against media censorship / forcing political views down other ppls throats, those who did this in the name of gg did so against those values. *sigh* in the end i guess gg is a lot like the republican party, while not all republicans are racists and/or misogynists, if you are one you're probably a republican..
Yeah, I've noticed none of these sides (if you can call them that) have any real principles. People talk big about one stance only to do the opposite whenever it suits them. It'd almost be funny if it weren't hurting people.

BTW I really think everyone should read Jon Ronson's book on internet shaming. It's politically neutral and is fascinating.
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ZellSF
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Re: GamerGate

Post by ZellSF »

Beamdog has released a statement addressing the only point I care about: Minsc should not be referencing a shitty internet flamewar.

Now I can continue my yearly playthroughs of the Baldur's Gate series without being reminded of any of this.
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Re: GamerGate

Post by evil_ash_xero »

e_tank wrote: this episode really paints gg in a bad light, it's supposed to be against attempting to get ppl fired for having views deemed problematic and against media censorship / forcing political views down other ppls throats, those who did this in the name of gg did so against those values. *sigh* in the end i guess gg is a lot like the republican party, while not all republicans are racists and/or misogynists, if you are one you're probably a republican..

Dude, just go to some actual GG hangouts, and see the vibe for yourself. You're going to get the wrong idea, on one or two big news stories.

For one, GG keeps getting referred to as "right wing". And while there are some major players who are right wing (Milo, Jim), there are those who are on the left (Sargon, TotalBiscuit and pretty much ALL the Europeans). Actually, there have been some surveys, and there are more people on the left, than the right, in GG.

I'm on the left, for example.

Also, if you can actually say that GG has harassed, or done more damage than all the radical SJWs out there....you are either not paying attention, or are turning a blind eye.

It only seems that people think things are "getting out of hand", or whatever, when some SJWs lose a job, or has bad sales. Everyone else are just shitlords, an got what was coming to them, I guess.
Skykid wrote:
Like I said, had this inclusive diversity occurred prior to Gamergate, there would be no backlash.

The problem is the social justice/third wave feminist movement is now officially toxic. People hate it and everything it represents. It's doing a huge disservice to minority groups by making them the principal of white knighting that they have no vested part of. The war is being waged on YouTube - the largest possible internet battleground - and the social justice gang are getting battered from all sides. They're losing the opinion game so seriously it practically constitutes abuse in itself.
This is true. And it's sad too. Because now, everytime something like that is introduced in a game, or a comic, or a movie, you're just so suspicious of what the reasons were.
When I would read something like Sandman: A Game of You, or Enigma, back in the day...I thought the writers were tackling stuff about homosexuality, and transgenderism, for story purposes. Also, we hadn't heard about it 24/7, so it was interesting.
Now, I just see a bunch of writers virtue signaling (whether they are or not).

However, with Milo being such a big hero to GG, and to so many anti-SJWs...I guess that doesn't mean that it makes them hate actual gay people. Just the politics getting shoehorned in, awkwardly, all the time.

Like making Iceman gay. :roll:
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Opus131
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Re: GamerGate

Post by Opus131 »

I hated their "enhanced" (but not really) editions and i think this is a fitting end for what is essentially a scam company.
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Opus131
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: GamerGate

Post by Opus131 »

Quick reminder why gaming "journalism" is a cancer and why it should be extirpated for the good of this medium:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-dark-souls ... in-1553664
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