XRGB-3

[Konsolkongen]

Just a quick update. I didn't manage to fix the sound problem so i added two phono outputs to the back of the console. It doesn't look pretty but it works fine.

[Chacranajxy]

Hmm.... so when I try to use my Saturn over RGB on this thing, I get no signal as soon as I turn it on. I dunno what that means.

Edit: nvm. Workin' perfectly after changing a setting.

[Fudoh]

What kind of Saturn are you using ? Still looking for somebody with the same problem as with my Saturn unit (posting on top, one page back)...

[Konsolkongen]

Did you try another Saturn?

[Fudoh]

I tried my other Hitachi model, but it's the same exact model (v2). I'll get a model 1 Hitachi soon and test again with this one...

[Konsolkongen]

There are many different versions of model 2. I would guess that the problem only happens with certain models. My first model 2 Saturn was a VA9 but i'm pretty sure the one i have now is VA5.

Still, your two Saturns could easily have identical hardware, just pointing out that there is probably about 10 different Saturn motherboards (my model 1 is VA0)

EDIT: I think it's more likely that the problem lies with the XRGB3. It seems that the different consoles works very differently on our XRGB-3's. I can't get a decent 480p picture from my PS2, but you can. My SNES has sound issues, but yours and Artemios doesn't. And your Saturn seems to have some strange issue that neither of ours does...?

Could you try your Saturn directly to your TV with the same game to check if the problem lies with the console or the XRGB-3?

[Chacranajxy]

Oh, right. My Saturn is a Skeleton Saturn, and it's not exhibiting the problem you're having, Fudoh. Not sure if the display used matters, but I'm using this on the Asus VH236H (which is like... the best small monitor for gaming, for serious.)

[Konsolkongen]

I think i've figured out why the sound is breaking up when using my SNES. I think that the 60Hz modification performed on a PAL SNES will force the console into PAL60 instead of NTSC like the SEGA consoles. The picture looks great but i think the XRGB3 is having a little problem with PAL60 and that could be why the sound is breaking up.

This is only speculations, but it makes the most sense to me

[Fudoh]

Unlikely, because there's no such thing as NTSC vs. PAL60 once you use RGB. Also NTSC and PAL60 are running at the same frequency, so there's no reason why it should affect the sound. Just guesses from my side of course...

[Konsolkongen]

Isn't the PAL signal a higher resolution than NTSC, 576 vs 480 lines, or am i all wrong here? I also wanted to try the XRGB-3's composhit inputs so i connected my SNES and it was all Black and White, isn't that because its PAL and the XRGB3 wants NTSC? I'm not really into this stuff since i'm always using RGB...

[Fudoh]

PAL50 yes, PAL60 no, they're all 15.75khz and so the resolution is locked to the frequency and 60Hz results in 480 lines. PAL60 just uses a different color carrier frequency compared to real NTSC, but - as told - that's not relevant on RGB signals.

[Konsolkongen]

Ok thanks for the explanation

[CrackLtd]

Any progress on the menu translation project?

[Artemio]

None at all. I don't think it is an active project.

[RGB32E]

On the front Game input of the XRGB-3, are pins 11 (+5VDC) and 16 (+1VDC) used? I'd like to build a DB25F to JP21 adapter so that I can use my Sony PVM-2030 cables on that input.

Whoops, I checked Micomsoft's site, and the info is listed (http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-3_spec.htm):
21-pin RGB input multi -
Signal Pin No. Signal Pin No. Signal Pin No.
1 AUDIO L 8 GND 15 R/PR
2 NC 9 C-sync 16 NC
3 GND 10 NC 17 GND
4 GND 11 NC 18 GND
5 AUDIO R 12 NC 19 G/Y
6 NC 13 GND 20 B/PB
7 GND 14 GND 21 GND



I'm glad that the XRGB doesn't use those pins, as the PVM monitor doesn't use voltage switching either!

[Fudoh]

Hey Michael,

nice to see you over here! Remember that you can also use the DSub15 in the back to input RGBs sources - comes in very handy if you have more than one RGB source which require different XRGB settings. I've got my Saturn running on the back port while the front port is available for temporary systems like the PCE.

And as a general note: when I recently did a little comparison of the PSP upscaling capabilities I (re-)discovered that the back LEFT D-Terminal port acts a bit different from the front one, especially for D2 (480p) sources. The massive problems with noise which I have on the front D-Terminal port with PS2 480p games are nearly gone on the back port. This might be different from one XRGB-3 to the next though....

Fudoh

[darthcloud]

I just got a Panasonic G15 46" and while I'm surprised by how well it handle 240p (Compared to my old LCD which was very blurry) it's still not perfect. (I don't know how to call this but there is some "Distorsion" between moving sprites and background)

I tried my XRGB-3 on the VGA port and the picture is perfect exept that I get some underscan (Black bar on top and bottom).

My XRGB is in B1 mode so I know most picture adjustment feature are disabled but Is there any way to remove those black bar?

I don't think this come from the TV because a tried my laptop on 640x480 and I don't see those black bar on top and bottom and the xrgb can output a full blue screen without bar before you powerup yours systems. Unfortunately the TV don't have vetical size ajustment like computer monitor does :S.

Some pic of what I get:

N64


XRGB Menu


Laptop on 640x480


Thanks

[Fudoh]

Unfortunately the underscan is part of the image already. On some system there's hardly any (PS1) and on some system it's much mor serious (PS2). No way to change that in B1 mode.

[darthcloud]

Unfortunately the underscan is part of the image already. On some system there's hardly any (PS1) and on some system it's much mor serious (PS2). No way to change that in B1 mode.

Ok thanks, that what I tough.

Also, thank you for your XRGB-3 setting guide, I was able to get my SNES (which has a lot of waviness in the top of screen) to show properly by adjusting the AFC setting to 0.

Btw, is the xrgb-3 still the best device for 240p RGBS => HDTV? Does any new product worth take a look?

Thanks

[Fudoh]

Btw, is the xrgb-3 still the best device for 240p RGBS => HDTV? Does any new product worth take a look?

nothing in sight.

[RGB32E]

Hey Michael,

nice to see you over here! Remember that you can also use the DSub15 in the back to input RGBs sources - comes in very handy if you have more than one RGB source which require different XRGB settings. I've got my Saturn running on the back port while the front port is available for temporary systems like the PCE.

I recall seeing on your site that the DSUB input accepts RGBS sources with the latest FW. So, are most all of the picture adjustments stored per input? So, for the AFC, LPF, and other compatibility related settings can be stored with the input?

And as a general note: when I recently did a little comparison of the PSP upscaling capabilities I (re-)discovered that the back LEFT D-Terminal port acts a bit different from the front one, especially for D2 (480p) sources. The massive problems with noise which I have on the front D-Terminal port with PS2 480p games are nearly gone on the back port. This might be different from one XRGB-3 to the next though....

Fudoh

I'll have fun checking out the various idiosyncrasies with this unit! I am concerned that the video output will be noisy via the XRGB-3... using the Kramer FC-14 on my XBR8 yields zero picture noise, though soft. Only four more days till my brand new, friend delivered XRGB-3 arrives from Japan!

[RGB32E]

I just got a Panasonic G15 46" and while I'm surprised by how well it handle 240p (Compared to my old LCD which was very blurry) it's still not perfect. (I don't know how to call this but there is some "Distorsion" between moving sprites and background)

I tried my XRGB-3 on the VGA port and the picture is perfect exept that I get some underscan (Black bar on top and bottom).

My XRGB is in B1 mode so I know most picture adjustment feature are disabled but Is there any way to remove those black bar?

I don't think this come from the TV because a tried my laptop on 640x480 and I don't see those black bar on top and bottom and the xrgb can output a full blue screen without bar before you powerup yours systems. Unfortunately the TV don't have vetical size ajustment like computer monitor does :S.

Some pic of what I get:

N64


XRGB Menu


Laptop on 640x480


Thanks

How are you connecting the N64? If via RGB, what mod method are you using? I haven't built a usable amp for this system yet, so I have the basic dim RGB and would like to know which mod works best with the XRGB-3.

Also, have you tried connecting RGB directly into the PC input (instead of the XRGB). I think that should work with your set if you have the proper sync splitter? The LM1881 alone is not enough, since it outputs composite sync + vertical sync, and consumer panasonic plasmas don't seem to accept composite sync, just the commercial models. Though if my experience with the VX100 holds true to your experience, the PC input will display the image via 15.75kHz RGB, but tries to perform diagonal edge enhancement on motion (static screen looks perfect). Is this true for your G15 (hence, XRGB-3 a better solution)?

[Fudoh]

So, are most all of the picture adjustments stored per input? So, for the AFC, LPF, and other compatibility related settings can be stored with the input?

yes, they are.

I'll have fun checking out the various idiosyncrasies with this unit! I am concerned that the video output will be noisy via the XRGB-3... using the Kramer FC-14 on my XBR8 yields zero picture noise, though soft.

not in general. The XRGB-3 is very sensibel to certain noise levels in the original signal. And I don't mean visible noise. On my XBR5 I can't tell my PCE's RGB quality from my PS1's RGB quality. The XRGB-3 on the other hand loves the PS1's signal, but kinda hates my PCE's signal. I sure am glad that I don't have more RGB systems anymore - it's stressful enough to get all the current systems to perform flawlessly.

Only four more days till my brand new, friend delivered XRGB-3 arrives from Japan!

sounds good. I'm looking forward to your testruns with various systems. You're one of the few users who has a bunch of different systems, the skills to do the proper changes to their RGB signals AND the will to do it to achieve the best possible results. Even Markus over here - while a great technician - is kinda lazy when it comes to testing his own system with his XRGB-3.

[gundamalpha]

I have a problem running XRGB3 on B1 mode with my HD Ready plasma. The unit shows it's outputting 1024 x 768 but the TV shows 640 x 480 instead.. I tested it with my monitor at it displayed at 1024 x 768 as well

[Fudoh]

There's is no 1024x768 in B1 mode. Maybe a bad flash of the B1 bank ? Are you able to change resolutions as supposed in B0 mode ? You can try to reflash the B1 firmware.

EDIT: I once had troubles with the B1 mode when B0 was set to a certain resolution (though it should not affect the B1). Try cycling through the resolutions using the front buttons while you're in B1. The LEDs on front will change accordingly.

[darthcloud]

I just got a Panasonic G15 46" and while I'm surprised by how well it handle 240p (Compared to my old LCD which was very blurry) it's still not perfect. (I don't know how to call this but there is some "Distorsion" between moving sprites and background)

I tried my XRGB-3 on the VGA port and the picture is perfect exept that I get some underscan (Black bar on top and bottom).

My XRGB is in B1 mode so I know most picture adjustment feature are disabled but Is there any way to remove those black bar?

I don't think this come from the TV because a tried my laptop on 640x480 and I don't see those black bar on top and bottom and the xrgb can output a full blue screen without bar before you powerup yours systems. Unfortunately the TV don't have vetical size ajustment like computer monitor does :S.

Thanks

How are you connecting the N64? If via RGB, what mod method are you using? I haven't built a usable amp for this system yet, so I have the basic dim RGB and would like to know which mod works best with the XRGB-3.

Also, have you tried connecting RGB directly into the PC input (instead of the XRGB). I think that should work with your set if you have the proper sync splitter? The LM1881 alone is not enough, since it outputs composite sync + vertical sync, and consumer panasonic plasmas don't seem to accept composite sync, just the commercial models. Though if my experience with the VX100 holds true to your experience, the PC input will display the image via 15.75kHz RGB, but tries to perform diagonal edge enhancement on motion (static screen looks perfect). Is this true for your G15 (hence, XRGB-3 a better solution)?

Currently it's connected using S-video but I'm going to do this mod soon:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:n64rgb-ntsc

Will let you know how it look like.

Btw my snes is connected using RGB and the back RGB "D2" (VGA) input and the picture is amazing! (Once I got the right AFC setting)

Unfortunately the G15 only suport HV and Sync on Green, I might try to build a little CSync and Green combiner to see how RGB look like but I don't think it will be better than the other output. Composite Video and S-Video input does show a nice 240p with some distortion between background and moving sprite, however 240p over component video look like shit (lol) I got a lot of flickering in the picture and it's unplayable for me. So I guess RGB will propably look as bad as the component video.

By the way their some contradiction in the manual about the supported sync frequencies, one page say 31khz the other 15khz, don't know which is right but I guess this TV only support 31khz.

Would like to get a professional set but look like panny is slow releasing Neo panel 12UK series under the 50" size....

[Artemio]

How are you connecting the N64? If via RGB, what mod method are you using? I haven't built a usable amp for this system yet, so I have the basic dim RGB and would like to know which mod works best with the XRGB-3.

I ended up using the PC Engine amps. When I tried building the N64 ones they never worked properly for me.

The unit shows it's outputting 1024 x 768 but the TV shows 640 x 480 instead.. I tested it with my monitor at it displayed at 1024 x 768 as well

You probably mention this because the XRGB-3 always does 640x480 when in B1 mode, it just displays the configured resolution for B0 mode. I bet that is the source fo the confusion.

[RGB32E]

How are you connecting the N64? If via RGB, what mod method are you using? I haven't built a usable amp for this system yet, so I have the basic dim RGB and would like to know which mod works best with the XRGB-3.

I ended up using the PC Engine amps. When I tried building the N64 ones they never worked properly for me.

Which NEC amp design? Are you referring to the Gamesx amp, or the Baku amp?

OR


If you're using the gamesx amp, do you use composite SYNC for VIDEO or the sync signal? I would imagine that you'd only be amplifying the red, green, and blue signals, right? I have an extra gamesx amp built and I'll pop it in my N64 tonight and see if that's a solution.

Also, do you get the vertical lines when using the amp on the N64, or is that just an issue with the NEC systems?

[lynchesque]

What are the diffences in scanline emulation between the XRGB-2, 2+ and 3?

Can you turn it off on all models?

[Fudoh]

Can you turn it off on all models?

Yes, you can.

2 has on/off only (100%)
2+ has 100/75/50/25%/off
3 has linear setting in 255 steps.