Ketsui - Arcade and X360 Arrange

[ratikal]

Stage 4 and 5 is when shit gets real. There are some areas you really gotta practice in order get through. Don't be afraid to bomb too, I think the stage end bonus for bombs is pretty low anyways, and I doubt you'll be making the Tsuujou loop anytime soon. Just take it one step at a time!

[AliceMargatroid]

I will, although I am playing this due to mere boredom. I will probably focus on certain other games when the emulation is completed.

My biggest problem is bombing. I don't want to further lower my already poor score so I always try not to bomb which almost always makes me lose lifes when I still have 2 or 3 bombs in stock.

My second problem is ragequitting. Whenever I lose a life in stage 1 or 2 I immediately restart the game. That's why my "Played" Count is at 242 while my "Time" count is at ~9 hours. Simple math tells me that I restart Ketsui every 2.231 minutes.

My third problem is that I dislike scoring systems which can be abused at some points. In this case it is the hard-to-time C+A massive multiplier gain. I am able to pull it off now, but I simply dislike it and it makes me hate the scoring system sometimes.

The fourth and not so bad problem is that I just got "Umineko no Naku Koro ni". It will take some time before I will pick up my training again.

[RNGmaster]

My second problem is ragequitting. Whenever I lose a life in stage 1 or 2 I immediately restart the game. That's why my "Played" Count is at 242 while my "Time" count is at ~9 hours. Simple math tells me that I restart Ketsui every 2.231 minutes.

Use savestates to practice the later stages.

[gs68]

Hell yeah!


Arcade
gs68 - 61,728,002 - 1-5 - Panzer Jager - 360

I finally learned how to nail the 1-up in Stage 3.

[Jaimers]

Jaimers - 224,826,722 - 2-4 - Tiger Schwert - MAME

Completely fell apart after 1-4. Also 3 lives before the 2-4 boss.
I think I can at least 2-ALL the Tsuujou loop, we'll see how it goes.

[x91]

2 months off lol

first time up to 300 mil. Dunno if I can 2-ALL in July...


Also made it to ura loop 2 times in the last 2 months. THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS GAME IS ABOUT. Nearly impossible to complete, but quite fun. Greater challenge, greater reward XD

IXI signed is my score. Oh yeah, never mind WC.'s ura loop ALL, haha

x91 - 306,411,749 - 2-5 - Tiger Schwert

[Jaimers]

Jaimers - 271,951,108 - ALL - Tiger Schwert - MAME

First Tsuujou 2-ALL of this game!

[moozooh]

Wtf, you're both insane!

[malik11]

Also made it to ura loop 2 times in the last 2 months. THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS GAME IS ABOUT. Nearly impossible to complete, but quite fun. Greater challenge, greater reward XD

I have to agree, in a way. I've played both second rounds in training, and I find that it's hard to learn to score well in tsuujou/omote, because of the bullet cancelling/suppression. It's funny that tsuujou/omote is the opposite of the first round in that you increase your multiplier more by being further away from enemies rather than closer, because more suicide projectiles are generated that way. The feeling of it is strange, because it's frequently easier to destroy enemies when you're close to them.

Congratulations to Jaimers. I think I'll hold congratulations to x91, pending conclusion of progress/prospects. I will just say that it's already very impressive, thus far.

Congratulations to Sapz, by the way, for your nice work. I knew you were always the better player, and thanks nonetheless for the encouragement. Kudos to you.

[RNGmaster]

Jaimers - 271,951,108 - ALL - Tiger Schwert - MAME

First Tsuujou 2-ALL of this game!

If you didn't save the .inp and you're not going to post this on YT, I will go the the Netherlands and kill you with a giant glass 10 chip.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

From another topic on another board,

"and apparently the .inp didn't do what it should do goddammit"

"ShmupMAME 3.0b. Apparently the hard reset thing doesn't work as it kept my input but didn't restart the game. >_>"

"Yeah that thing only works in 2.2 unfortunately."



So, he did record a .inp, but it screwed up, so he gets to do it again if he wants to upload. But Jaimers is really good at these games, so we'll get a working 2-all .inp sometime.

[emphatic]

So, he did record a .inp, but it screwed up, so he gets to do it again if he wants to upload. But Jaimers is really good at these games, so we'll get a working 2-all .inp sometime.

Really looking forward to that.

[x91]

It's funny that tsuujou/omote is the opposite of the first round in that you increase your multiplier more by being further away from enemies rather than closer, because more suicide projectiles are generated that way. The feeling of it is strange, because it's frequently easier to destroy enemies when you're close to them.

Yes, in omote loop, you have less retaliation, and it is easier to suppress most of the projectiles in enemies' explosion. But something different is, the amount of suicide bullets is determined by the vertical height of the enemy when destroyed(before suppressed by you, of course), this works for both loops. So if you destroy them higher on the screen, the more retaliation you may get(or chips?)

Thus in the second loop, Tiger Schwert has an annoying problem: It's firepower doesn't focus straightforward. This makes it harder to blast enemies off as early as possible to 'save' those bullets/chips. Get close then away will do, but for the slower heli, wow... sometimes it can be very dangerous.

In ura loop you have to keep the combat style of 1st loop, or get packed by those blue ones, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.

I suppose this should be in the strategy board?...

[Siren2011]

I just realized something. If one were to find out how many chips each enemy in the game dropped, by multiplying the amount of each enemy's chip potential by the number of times that specific type of enemy makes an appearance, then add the results together (assuming they're all 5 chips), then that would technically be, if not the maximum score you could get in the game, then a good estimation, wouldn't it? (Of course, counting keeping all of your lives and bombs even after fighting DOOM, boss and mini-boss "part" destruction, and taking into consideration the falling counter at each boss battle.) I sure as hell couldn't pull it off --at least not in the foreseeable future-- but someone around here might be able to.

But sometimes it's near impossible (even after pausing a superplay on youtube) to keep track of the number of chips coming out of some destroyed enemies before your ship vacuums them up. For one, there are, more often than not, way too many chips on screen to tell. Second, the appear and leave way too fast. You'd have to isolate each enemy (in some sort of debug or practice mode?), kill them up close, and somehow slow the frame rate down to get a better idea of how many chips they drop, especially grand finale finisher for the large battleship in stage 3. I wouldn't be surprised if in some secretly accessible mode on the arcade board it mentions how many enemies of each type are in the first loop, second loop, etc.

[Sapz]

Well, that's not quite how Ketsui's scoring works to my knowledge; most of the points in a stage are generated by destroying enemies with lock shot, which gives you the point value of the enemy you destroyed multiplied by your middle (3 digit) counter at the time of destruction. The chips themselves don't really give points, they're just there to raise your two counters for the most part. Aside from that, neither of the second loops feature chips at all - each spawned suicide bullet adds 1 to both counters, with Ura counting sealed suicide bullets and Tsuujou requiring the bullets to remain unsealed to be counted.

It's more complicated than just chip counting, unfortunately.

[Aliquantic]

In addition, the value of the multiplier is decreased when you use lockshot to destroy things (by a certain percentage depending on the exact enemy), so your total score depends heavily on your route through the stage, and it's also possible to "trick" the system with something known as empty lockshot, which gives you "extra" chips at no multiplier cost, screwing up the maths even more. Plus everything Sapz said

We know SPZ... I mean SPS has got pretty close to the scoring ceiling already, and there are videos for 250-260m in the first loop if you're curious to see something close to the theoretical max. And while I'm here...

Aliquantic - 110,280,756 - 1-ALL - Type A - MAME

[Siren2011]

Both of you are awesome. I was scratching my head all this time trying to figure out the scoring system, and you just lay it out for me.

So let's see if I really understand now. I would love any corrections and clarifications.

1.) The stage multiplier is constantly fluctuating, because using your lock shot not only depletes it, but it's possible to earn a higher number than the amount you had before you killed seven or so enemies. This doesn't happen in every case, though.

2.) Based on what Sapz just said, killing an enemy while your stage counter is at 999 will get you a lot more points than killing said enemy with a counter of 211. So basically I need to find the spots where I need to use regular shot only to raise my stage counter, so I can earn more points from destroying shit.

3.) The overall multiplier counter keeps all of your chips combined. It can only increase.

4.) Destroying a boss will multiply its point value by the overall counter.

5.) Aside from the points you earn from destroying a boss, a bonus round tallies up your remaining ship and bomb stock and converts them into points. Moreover, all of your chips of every value earned in the stage are also of importance; the number of specific chips (1-5) multiplied by how many you collected, are then added together. This also contributes to the bonus score.

We know SPZ... I mean SPS has got pretty close to the scoring ceiling already, and there are videos for 250-260m in the first loop if you're curious to see something close to the theoretical max.

They are the same person?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JmYxO4CNZU

If that's Sapz, then he's got mad skill. Props, man. Props. Did CAVE approach you to make a superplay DVD? That would explain the disclaimer at the right of the video.

[tinotormed]

...They are the same person?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JmYxO4CNZU

If that's Sapz, then he's got mad skill. Props, man. Props. Did CAVE approach you to make a superplay DVD? That would explain the disclaimer at the right of the video.

Take it easy, yo. They're both different.

[malik11]

I agree with x91 that this should be in the strategy section.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 18#p711518

[Sapz]

Hahaha, I wish I was as good as SPS. My score's a relatively measly 203m.

And yes, I think that's the gist of the scoring system. The end-of-stage bonuses, if I remember correctly, are (final overall counter*[total lives remaining*500 + bombs remaining*50]). This is doubled in the Ura loop.

EDIT: Whoops, that's in the ST too. Missed it.

[x91]

Okay... omote ALL finally.

2-5's underground base is totally a disaster... lost 3 lives, bombed heavily, and a lot of point loss. Naked clear. Never been in that area before almost ruined this run.

I know give it some practice can help me score better... I think I'll take a break however



x91 - 328,055,213 - Omote ALL - Tiger Schwert - PCB

[Sapz]

Congrats, man! Very badass score.

[omgdmp]

omgdmp - 80,343,035 - 1-5 - Panzer Jager - MAME

Im having so much fun with this game.
Getting close to 1cc but second part of stage 5 is really being a bitch.

[Enhasa]

Enhasa - 85,675,693 - 1-5 - Tiger Schwert - MAME

Wow this board is full of killers, not even top 50.

To be honest, I just played this game to hear the stage 5 music while actually playing.

[iconoclast]

iconoclast - 122,237,268 - 1-ALL - Tiger Schwert - MAME

I wanted to loop this before adding my score to the mix, but eh. Replay here.

[moozooh]

Wow this board is full of killers, not even top 50.

Or so it seems! But in fact it's just full of duplicates. KAI, Jaimers, TonK, and who knows how many other people have more than one entry.

[omgdmp]

omgdmp - 93,867,886 - 1-5 - Tiger Shwert - MAME

Slight improvement.

[Bananamatic]

Bananamatic - 89,824,107 - 1-ALL - Tiger Schwert - MAME

I tried to score for once

[man9child]

New (old) arcade mode score.

man9child - 95,020,562 - 1-5 - Tiger Schwert - 360

I set this back in December or so before I took a break and never posted, biting it on Evacaneer. I haven't been able to top the mid 80's since.

[javel]

Javel - 127,388,624 - 1-ALL - Tiger Schwert - MAME