Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[jdubs]

If I had the room, I'd go with an NEC XM29.

-Jim

[robneal81]

Lawfer recently got an Ikegami. I don't know if it's worth the effort. It's quite similar to a BVM-D series and that's certainly easier to pick up than an Ikegami. Get in touch with him, if you want to hear more about the Ikegami.

VGA is easily transcoded to 480p, so even if RGBHV is no option, this shouldn't stop you.

If you only want 480p/VGA (and not 15khz support) why not look at PC monitors instead ? Mitsubishi did a 22" 4:3 screen back in the days. Diamondtron. One of the, if not THE best PC CRT ever released. Component to VGA transcoding is also easy.

If you go larger, no matter if you chose a PVM, or a tri-sync arcade chassis or a NEC, Hantarex, Barco or something similar - these are all presentation displays, not editing displays, so the quality is nowhere near what you get from a desktop PVM or BVM set.

This said, I think 20" is a waste for 480p. 480p can look gorgeous and should be displayed as big as possible.

Thanks for your response. In all honesty, 99% of all my 480p content (VGA or component) will be played through my plasma TV. There's just a few specific cases where 480p would come in handy on my RGB monitor. In fact, most of what I play is 240p anyway.

Quality is what I care about most, so I don't think a presentation display is what I'm looking for.

If I had the room, I'd go with an NEC XM29.

-Jim

Thank's for the suggestion. I wonder how that compares to the PVM.

[Fudoh]

The NEC 29" CRTs offer about the same quality as the better 29" PVMs (2950QM) for 15khz or the 29" PGMs for 31khz. The PGMs are pretty nice for VGA and likely easier to find than a 29" NEC. Nec is what you get when you want 15 and 31khz on the same screen.

[robneal81]

Nec is what you get when you want 15 and 31khz on the same screen.

That's actually what I was hoping for. I guess I'll keep my eyes out for an NEC.

[philexile]

I remember seeing a few of those NECs at work on the conference floor. They were slated for the junk heap and I keep asking the IT guy about it and he was going to get me one, but they've all disappeared since. Probably in a warehouse somewhere awaiting disposal.

robneal81, call around to advertising or editing agencies in NYC. You may have some luck getting one for next to nothing if they still have them sitting around.

[Ed Oscuro]

Welp, maybe the recycling folks will be smart enough to throw them on some site for sale. or not. usual worthless IT people right?

[jdubs]

Nec is what you get when you want 15 and 31khz on the same screen.

That's actually what I was hoping for. I guess I'll keep my eyes out for an NEC.

Someone had a few that he was selling in Boston. He posted on shmups a little while back (a month or so?).

-Jim

[noonan2678]

Nec is what you get when you want 15 and 31khz on the same screen.

That's actually what I was hoping for. I guess I'll keep my eyes out for an NEC.

Someone had a few that he was selling in Boston. He posted on shmups a little while back (a month or so?).

-Jim

Huh, remember who? I happen to be in Boston and would likely check this out too...

[jdubs]

Here's the ad:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45529

-Jim

[scancity88]

Hi all,

I came across this thread when searching for info on the service menu for the Sony PVM-L4 series monitors, many thanks to those who have given tips on how to find it and access the geometry controls etc! I have a PVM-20L4 myself and whilst snooping around the service menu (and after thinking I'd bricked the thing with 'aging mode') I came across the SYS > SIGNAL sub menu which has a couple of options to turn on or off '1080/48i' and '720/50p'. Does anyone know what these options do exactly? I'm pretty sure these monitors have no multiformat support but am intrigued as to why there are HD signal options lurking in the service menu!

Also, does anyone have the service manual for the PVM-L4 series or can recommend a reputable website where I can buy one? The Sony broadcast website has a PDF of the owner's manual which is useful but would like to be able to tinker further with the service manual.

Cheers!

[cyborc]

any idea where I can source some nice thick boxes suitable for shipping a pvm? I have a 20 and 14 inch pvm I need to get rid of and I'd rather they go to a good home than end up in a thrift store/recycling.

[TheShadowRunner]

Hi all,

I came across this thread when searching for info on the service menu for the Sony PVM-L4 series monitors, many thanks to those who have given tips on how to find it and access the geometry controls etc! I have a PVM-20L4 myself and whilst snooping around the service menu (and after thinking I'd bricked the thing with 'aging mode') I came across the SYS > SIGNAL sub menu which has a couple of options to turn on or off '1080/48i' and '720/50p'. Does anyone know what these options do exactly? I'm pretty sure these monitors have no multiformat support but am intrigued as to why there are HD signal options lurking in the service menu!

Also, does anyone have the service manual for the PVM-L4 series or can recommend a reputable website where I can buy one? The Sony broadcast website has a PDF of the owner's manual which is useful but would like to be able to tinker further with the service manual.

Cheers!

You can apparently grab the 20L4 service manual for free here:
http://www.electronic-circuitry.com/e/a ... &id=146508
But it seems the link is broken :?
It's also for sale here for 5 bucks, but I don't know how reliable the site is.
http://www.manualscenter.com/pvm20l4-p-187282.html

[scancity88]

You can apparently grab the 20L4 service manual for free here:
http://www.electronic-circuitry.com/e/a ... &id=146508
But it seems the link is broken
It's also for sale here for 5 bucks, but I don't know how reliable the site is.
http://www.manualscenter.com/pvm20l4-p-187282.html

Hey thanks for the info, I did come across those sites in my searches but the link is broken for me too in the first one.
Can anyone recommend manualscenter.com? Maybe I'm just paranoid but all these manual sites look a bit dodgy to me!

[Thelson]

Please could someone tell if a monitor or Bvm Pvm I could convert RGBs in to Component video Out, is for a machine with mame emulators, for I am in Brazil and to get good results only matter but could utilisar for this. For help comb it could get such a monitor 14 " Bvm 14g5u for this feature as a bonus.

[BubbaMc]

As a bit of an update on my CRT quest. I received my BVM-A20F1U. I thought it would have some sort of 'default' input board with analog rgb input, but I was wrong. All the inputs are on option boards and mine only came with the board with SD-SDI, Composite, and YC inputs. Also my ebay offer on the BKM-15R controller fell through.

Fast forward a few weeks, I manage to get another BKM-15R, and an RCA-BNC adapter. I successfully test out composite 240p, everything looks great, yay! But who cares about 15khz composite...

After searching ebay for a while for a BKM-68X (analog rgb input board for BVM-A series). I see a 14" model come up with one! I offered the seller $300 for just the board, but they refused, so I had to buy the whole monitor!! Ironically the auction ended up around $300 + $75 to ship. So now I have a 20" and 14" BVM-A, but only one analog RGB board.

So, just yesterday I managed to finally get RGB. I only had a SNES custom cable on hand, and it was godlike! (Well, I imagine not any better than a 15khz-only BVM).

I need a few more adapters to test out my PS2/PS3/Wii with component 480p/1080i/720p. Hopefully soon.

Sorry for the lack of pictures, I spent my time taking pics of the 14" to put it back on ebay.

Well I just did the same thing.

Scored a January 2007 BVM-A20F1U

Currently looking for a BKM-68X and a BKM-15R. Any ideas where best to find them?

[lostinblue]

Well I just did the same thing.

Scored a January 2007 BVM-A20F1U

Currently looking for a BKM-68X and a BKM-15R. Any ideas where best to find them?

wow. 2007 is really recent, that sounds like a jackpot.

Congratulations.

[Thelson]

Well, maybe I was not clear in my question - what I want is a professional monitor bvm (14g5u model) with an expansion card BKM-20D, which is on sale for a good price around here.

I would like to start using emulator on a computer, and utilisar VGA input for RGB monitor bvm, and modify the signal to component video, take up my TV sony wega 29 "SDTV with component video input, with scanline in 240p up to 288p this in my arcade cabinet.

Getting a transcoder with 240p video output component here in Brazil is very difficult and expensive. I thank those who read and can answer this question, sorry my english because used electronic translator.

[BubbaMc]

There were 4x BKM-15R control units on ebay a few weeks back, priced at $49 but none sold. Contacted the seller who told me that they've since been thrown in the trash.

Fvck.

[BubbaMc]

Well I just did the same thing.

Scored a January 2007 BVM-A20F1U

Currently looking for a BKM-68X and a BKM-15R. Any ideas where best to find them?

wow. 2007 is really recent, that sounds like a jackpot.

Congratulations.

Since you mention it, A series was released in 2006. So any A series is newer than 7 years old.

Here's a killer deal guys: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-24-BVM-A24 ... 53f1d71ee2

North American members, get on it!

[kamiboy]

I've been looking at that one for months. Trouble is that it is a 16:9 unit. The extra bulk and weight of a 24" set is useless to me since I'll only be benefiting from the 19" 4:3 window inside it.

A proper 4:3 20" BVM can be had for half that price.

I wonder what the hours on it are though.

[ExitPlanetDust]

A recycling center in Austin was selling a bunch of monitors and my friend was able to grab a couple of Ikegami TM20-18Rs. They were in the best shape out of everything on the pallet.

Not sure what we have gotten ourselves into. The manufacture date is 1997 and they power on. I will know more when he gets them over here, which will probably be the end of next week. Hopefully we can figure out a way to access a test mode.

I don't have anything that will natively plug into them. I'm looking for a solution to convert a standard S-Video connection to the funky Y/C 7 pin jack that's in the back. These things will be seeing mostly console play. PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast.

Suggestions? Any technical nightmares to brace for? How do these compare to PVMs? Not that it matters, I'm sure they're quite a leap above standard commercial CRTs regardless.

[BubbaMc]

Don't use s-video, use RGB.

[ExitPlanetDust]

That is the eventual plan. As soon as I learn how to make cables for said consoles.

[Ed Oscuro]

I finally got around to fixing the red push on my humble WEGA KV-27FS120.

I didn't have to spend any time searching for the BA-6 chassic service manual since I hunted it down a while ago. I found an up-to-date version with a revision date of 7/2005; there are older 2004 manuals out there as well.

Most online sources are confusing about the red push on FS120 units; apparently some older sets had service menu entries labeled AXNT and/or AXPL entry (these likely translate to AXIS NTSC and AXIS PAL). The full name and description of the AXIS entry (found a ways back in service group VP1, i.e. the label that appears on the top-left of the screen) is "R-Y PHASE SELECT" and its default value (NTSC Init Data) is 52. Old descriptions online of AXNT and AXPL show that it was a simple one-bit toggle; and it is essentially still just an on/off toggle with the boundary at the most significant bit out of six. Why it was changed to a six-bit value here I couldn't guess (maybe to forestall bit corruption errors? If the NVRAM starts to go bad I'd be worried about settings more basic than the red push).

Putting the set on PRO and NEUTRAL settings for the most accurate color, an AXIS value between 32 and 63 (I think that's the upper bound) will have red push on. Between 0 and 31, red push is OFF.

However this leaves something of a greenish tint (on some light blues and yellows) - I'll have to play with color balance a bit later.

Other picture presets still have painful bleeding in reds from red push (like VIVID) but I wouldn't use those anyway.


Playing with the H and V SIZ and POS variables, as well as pulling PAMP down from 48 to 44 (or 45) to pull the screen edges out a bit and de-barrel the image a little. There are various "characteristics" still visible in the screen but I've done pretty well so far.

One thing that I still have to deal with is that with Raiden Project's title demo running on a PS2 slim as a sort of hasty guide, pulling VSIZ from 27 to 22 started to barrel distort the top of the image and pull the scanlines too close together. However, even after playing a little with VSIZ, I still have some of the game screen cut off when playing the game in its pillarboxed mode. At least I can see the score now, though.

A couple quirks of the KV-27FS120:
The manual does dictate, as usual, that you need to press MUTING and then ENTER to save new data. However the old data will hold at least through a soft power cycle (i.e. turning the unit on and off with the power button), so it requires at least unplugging the unit to lose changes. I didn't unplug the unit until I was all done, and I'll be interested to see if the changes held.

Since the unit has a 16:9 enhanced mode (which just directs all the scanlines into a 16:9 area), you must take care when tuning for normal 4:3 sources that the service menu item is in the DEF (default) service group.

[BubbaMc]

That is the eventual plan. As soon as I learn how to make cables for said consoles.

Get a SCART cable for each console (see ebay, you'll need these even if you do make your own cables), and one of these: http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony ... r-bnc.html

That's all you need. Making cables is painful, especially if you haven't made one before.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Get a SCART cable for each console (see ebay, you'll need these even if you do make your own cables), and one of these: http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony ... r-bnc.html

That's all you need. Making cables is painful, especially if you haven't made one before.

Thanks for the recommendation and the link. Time to start saving.

[Ed Oscuro]

lol, Raiden 2 looks uglier now with the component cable in. Getting used to the lack of in-scanline flickering...Raiden 1 looks really nice now, bright colors to R2's often rather muddy colors (good examples - the shot items and the shot item carriers). Having fun with both games as always. I can see the bowing a bit more clearly now, so I've got some more work to do with Avia's patterns.

[muddy]

Scored a PVM-20M4E for £16. 45 min drive to collect, but am looking forward to it!

I've got an XRGB-2 and the SLG3000/Scan Striker etc. Should be fine with a VGA>BNC cable from the XRGB-2?

[Fudoh]

Isn't the M4 15khz-only ? I think so. In this case you can't connect a XRGB-2. Defeats the purpose anyway, doesn't it ?

[muddy]

Isn't the M4 15khz-only ? I think so. In this case you can't connect a XRGB-2. Defeats the purpose anyway, doesn't it ?

Purpose was more for easily taking a SCART input, upscaling, outputting via VGA. Not to worry, sync strike/video scaler will be fine, yeah?