Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Blinge]

Ahaha. A new era dawns for the task force.

Dog Days Arc begins.

[Obscura]

Hey, most people in 2018 think that "time for money" is the best way to judge a videogame, and I took the fucking scenic route with one of the most extended playthroughs possible!

EDIT: Also, I know it's cool to hate on Ninja Gaiden bosses that aren't Jaquio or Jashin, but man, the stage 3 boss is surprisingly wicked for such a simple pattern. The bluntest of blunt force tests of timing and reactions.

[Blinge]

Oh don't worry my own NG completion was Bumble King's ultimate scrubfest.

Grats on finally getting an avatar you fuck!

[BIL]

SQUAD POWER LEVEL: TEXAS DEATH METAL

[Sumez]

I tried out Kirby's Dream Land's extra mode today and dang! Extra mode doesn't joke around! It's an onslaught of homing rocket umbrellas, aimbot machine gun cannons, and lightspeed crowflies. I disliked KDL the one time I played through normal mode for being too slow and gentle, but extra fixes that very nicely. To activate extra mode, press ↑ + A + Select on the title screen.

This was probably my first time ever playing a "hard mode" as a kid. Being the coward I was, I always chose easy mode if it were available, something I've regretted ever since.

But for Kirby the game was so disappointingly easy, even for 9-10 year old me that using the Extra mode code (revealed once you beat the game on normal) was standard practice every time I played the game. I even guessed the code for the sound test etc before beating extra mode.
I don't remember it being particularly tough though. Maybe I need to go revisit it again soon.
The Kirby games really are excellent, and it sucks that pretty much all of the rest are way too easy.

i remember seeing the designer on GAF talking about how he could improve mario if he were given the reins by having you gradually unlock each of mario's abilities. god damn, what density.

To be fair, this is what games like Rayman (mostly linear 2D) and Banjo-Kazooie (sorta non-linear 3D) did, and it mostly worked out.

It does. But none of that would improve a Mario game. Its excellence is in the simplicity of his moveset.
If your game has a lot of stuff you can do, it's cool to drop them one at a time, so the player can get used to them - but don't make your entire game a tutorial, and if any of them replaces the utility of another one, you can just get outta here. B-K also cheaps out by making like 80% of the moves context sensitive.

[Obscura]

SQUAD POWER LEVEL: TEXAS DEATH METAL

Truly, the highest power level imaginable. Good thing I play guitar better than I play Ninja Gaiden!

[Durandal]

Streets of Rage 4

[BIL]

Truly, the highest power level imaginable. Good thing I play guitar better than I play Ninja Gaiden!

Jesus Christ, I just noticed the 1HP in your screenshot.

That wasn't a slum over, that was the headbutt scene from the end of Ninja Scroll. (an anime EVERY ninja-loving gamer should watch, repeatedly)

EDIT: Also, I know it's cool to hate on Ninja Gaiden bosses that aren't Jaquio or Jashin, but man, the stage 3 boss is surprisingly wicked for such a simple pattern. The bluntest of blunt force tests of timing and reactions.

For that guy, just hit his bullets with a standing slash and you'll create a nice big gap to hop through. Meanwhile, flame him with the updraft as he lands from jumps. Or just slash him.

I do think he's by far the coolest NG1 boss outside of J & J, if only because catching him with the full brunt of the updraft for meaty damage and a quick KO is a fun technical challenge (easy to miss with some of it... bit like shotgunning Imps in DOOM).

[Obscura]

How do you time your slashes on the stage 3 boss when going anti-bullet? Are you trying to hit the middle one with just the tip and then hop through? I hadn't thought of that; the way I did it was to just wait until the last moment, and get the middle and bottom shot with one swipe.

(Also, an updraft? Where are you getting that from? I went Windmill Throwing Star for 3-2).

(Also, I've never seen Ninja Scroll, so that reference was lost on me, but here's how I envisioned my stage 6 marathon going:

Jacquio: HAHAHA, YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED BY THE MIGHTY JACQUIO! BUT I WON'T JUST KILL YOU; I WANT TO CRUSH YOUR SPIRIT! BACK TO 6-1 WITH YOU!!!!
Ryu, 10 minutes later: K, I'm back. And I brought a spin-slash.
Jacquio:
Jashin: You may have been able to defeat Jacquio, but can you handle the evil demon himself? Spin-slash banned BTW.
[about a minute later]
Jashin: Ninja, once again you are defeated! Every man's spirit has its limits, and I shall push you past yours -- BACK TO 6-1 WITH YOU!!!
Ryu, 10 minutes later: K, I'm back. And I brought a spin-slash.
Jashin: You stubborn fucking scrub! Fine, take your victory and GTFO, you overly-persistent bumbler.)

[BIL]

How do you time your slashes on the stage 3 boss when going anti-bullet? Are you trying to hit the middle one with just the tip and then hop through? I hadn't thought of that; the way I did it was to just wait until the last moment, and get the middle and bottom shot with one swipe.

Just execute a standing slash in the bullets' general direction, and you'll blow the middle one away every time. It's surprisingly easy to do, I never gave it much thought. Quick demo here.

(Also, an updraft? Where are you getting that from? I went Windmill Throwing Star for 3-2).

It's off in a slight detour, see here. Best bang/buck ratio of the available subweapons bar none, provided you hit him right.

edit: fuck me NG1's handling is beautiful I'm rarely happy with my runs, but just looking that up I'm instantly in love with the game again.

(Also, I've never seen Ninja Scroll, so that reference was lost on me, but here's how I envisioned my stage 6 marathon going:

If only Edmans had your optimism and spirit! Actually, if he did we might not have this thread, which is why he is our patron saint, so never mind! I warned that motherfucker, if you're gonna go nuclear you'd better have the personality type for it!

[Obscura]

The one thing about the boss knockback that no one ever talks about is, if you're not trying for 1cc/1lc, it's actually a form of mercy in a way; do a reasonable job learning 6-3 (that is to say, get to where you can one-life it with most of your lifebar intact on a good run), and you basically don't have to learn the boss fights if you have just a bit of patience. I've always considered Castlevania 3's less dramatic but kind of similar US-exclusive Dracula knockback to be one of the very few ways (maybe the only way?) in which that game is actually easier than Densetsu, since it gives you the option of learning the last stage and cheesing Pazuzu Dracula with the axe.

[__SKYe]

Man, it's been a while. I haven't played much side-scrolling action lately, but I thought I'd better post something soon, lest the squad think I'm AWOL.

How do you time your slashes on the stage 3 boss when going anti-bullet? Are you trying to hit the middle one with just the tip and then hop through? I hadn't thought of that; the way I did it was to just wait until the last moment, and get the middle and bottom shot with one swipe.

If you wait a bit before performing the standing slash, you can slash both the middle and lower bullets and don't have to do anything else to avoid them. Its something I always do against him, though I occasionally mess up. Here's a sample.
As for the timing, it's really a matter of getting used to the delay between when he jumps and when the bullets reach you (only when he's next to you -- if he's on the opposite side you have plenty of time to prepare).

Congrats to both you and bottino, by the way.

[BIL]

The one thing about the boss knockback that no one ever talks about is, if you're not trying for 1cc/1lc, it's actually a form of mercy in a way; do a reasonable job learning 6-3 (that is to say, get to where you can one-life it with most of your lifebar intact on a good run), and you basically don't have to learn the boss fights if you have just a bit of patience.

Very true, I once counseled Edmans of similar. It's better to master Act VI, or at least get it repeatable, before making a serious run at the bosses. If you're blowing your stack just reaching them, like he was, something's gonna snap. And the legend grows even more fearsome.

Even updraft is gonna make Jaquio a hell of a lot simpler. It's not quite as cruel a penalty as it's typically made out.

I think what drives some people absolutely mental is the deferring of victory. The designers basically insist you have a certain minimum level of engagement before letting you over the line. For some gamers the response will be "bring it muhfucka " but for others it's "HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME "

Hopefully nothing more than that. We witnessed some truly nuclear rage in this thread's less famous, direct-to-VHS spinoff. (I take full responsibility for stoking that rage )

If you wait a bit before performing the standing slash, you can slash both the middle and lower bullets and don't have to do anything else to avoid them. Its something I always do against him, though I occasionally mess up. Here's a sample

Never seen him shut down quite that efficiently before! This guy is definitely a cut above his peers in the MALICE FOUR, not that it's a particularly high bar to begin with.

(before anyone points out Act IV's boss has a degree of substance, too - he's not part of the MALICE FOUR! He's just a dog! )

[Despatche]

Streets of Rage 4

Dotemu having any relation to this is a nonstarter.

[Obscura]

TBH, I think that Kelborosu is worse than any of the Malice Four simply because he can't be shut down as quickly as bosses 1, 2, and 5, but he doesn't pose any more threat than they do (I refuse to acknowledge "stand under a pillar" as something that requires effort).

I can't see the video here (my work blocks YouTube), but I think what Skye is describing is how I deal with the stage 3 boss (is that one Basaquer? I can never keep the names of the stage 1 and 3 bosses straight).

[__SKYe]

Never seen him shut down quite that efficiently before! This guy is definitely a cut above his peers in the MALICE FOUR, not that it's a particularly high bar to begin with.

Haha, yeah. Don't know how they got the title to begin with.
At least when playing sword-only, I think he's the hardest behind only Jaquio and Jashin, provided you know not to waste time on the lighning guy and also to stay below the pltforms on against the dogs. Against him, you actually have to react to the projectiles instead of just slashing away at him mindlessly until he dies.

Everytime the NG topic resurfaces, I always regret that it doesn't have some cooler, earlier bosses to complement the great stages. Fortunately it got better in the subsequent games.

TBH, I think that Kelborosu is worse than any of the Malice Four simply because he can't be shut down as quickly as bosses 1, 2, and 5, but he doesn't pose any more threat than they do (I refuse to acknowledge "stand under a pillar" as something that requires effort).

It doesn't require effort, but at least it's available, where against the st3 boss you don't have a choice but to fight the projectiles.

And yeah, the st3 boss' thing is really just staying close to one of the sides waiting for the boss (taking care not to get hit in the process), and just stand-slash the bottom 2 projectiles as they come.

[Obscura]

Yep, that's exactly how I deal with the stage 3 boss. The timing on the "full screen" shots can be surprisingly tricky if you're bad at the game, a bit too early and you don't get the bottom bullet, a bit to late and the middle one smacks you.

[BIL]

TBH, I think that Kelborosu is worse than any of the Malice Four simply because he can't be shut down as quickly as bosses 1, 2, and 5, but he doesn't pose any more threat than they do (I refuse to acknowledge "stand under a pillar" as something that requires effort).

You can however jumpslash him in .5 seconds - don't even need to cross the room like the others. Good dog!

Behold my ANIMAL CONTROL NO JUTSU

Spoiler

I can't see the video here (my work blocks YouTube), but I think what Skye is describing is how I deal with the stage 3 boss (is that one Basaquer? I can never keep the names of the stage 1 and 3 bosses straight).

Yep!

ST1: Barbarian
ST2: Bomberhead (that's an ill name )
ST3: Basaquer / Berserker (or as that one NG video dude calls him "Boss Queer" edit: AW FUCK ITS GONE NOW imma look him up, smooth tones!)
ST4: Kelebros / Cerberus
ST5: Malth / Mars

Super Fun Fact: Jaquio is a corruption of "Jaki Ou" or "King of Devils." What I find more useful is that Jackie O did the same thing!

[__SKYe]

Yep, that's exactly how I deal with the stage 3 boss. The timing on the "full screen" shots can be surprisingly tricky if you're bad at the game, a bit too early and you don't get the bottom bullet, a bit to late and the middle one smacks you.

Yeah, it takes a bit of getting used to, but eventually one gets used to it. I still get hit with the occasional hit against him.

Anyway, made a quick GIF. Apologies for the watermark, it was the first site that appeared.

Spoiler

You can however jumpslash him in .5 seconds - don't even need to cross the room like the others. Good dog! Image

Behold my ANIMAL CONTROL NO JUTSU Image

Haha, and we still complain that hiding under the pillar is bad. Poor things don't even finish their introduction.

Super Fun Fact: Jaquio is a corruption of "Jaki Ou" or "King of Devils." What I find more useful is that Jackie O did the same thing!

Jaki Ou is much better and badass. Jaquio is pretty funny though, given the contrast from a major boss and the puny name.

[FinalBaton]

I crouch for NG st3 boss's bullets, and slash both the middle and bottom bullets. top bullets then fly over my head.

Also I camp in one corner and wait for it, far enough away that I'm safe from the stompin', but can still slash it's orange ass





Re : using the knockback. Yeah it can definitely be used to one's advantage! Skye's no-subweapon 1CC and 1LC make creative use of this

[BrianC]

ST5: Malth / Mars

Also known in the official PCE English translation as "Bloody Master". The translator of that version probably watched too much Doctor Who.

[mycophobia]

re: which ninja gaiden is best.

it's Ninja Gaiden

[Vanguard]

I've recorded a Kirby's Dream Land Extra Game 1CC as well as a no miss clear of thread-accepted-non-platformer Cave Noire.

I love the relentlessness and sometimes even shamelessness shown in Kirby's extra game's enemy placement and behavior. It's not overwhelmingly difficult but it's always engaging and a real shock compared to its snoozefest normal mode. One strange thing I noticed while recording is that Kracko Jr can hit you in the lower left corner during the first cycle of his pattern, but after that it's a safe spot.

I tried to play quickly to make Cave Noire more watchable, but it's still nearly a 2 hour video of a turn-based game. Oh well.

It does. But none of that would improve a Mario game. Its excellence is in the simplicity of his moveset.
If your game has a lot of stuff you can do, it's cool to drop them one at a time, so the player can get used to them - but don't make your entire game a tutorial, and if any of them replaces the utility of another one, you can just get outta here.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I wanna say that Mario's moveset is excellent because it's small but still very nuanced. The way Mario accelerates and decelerates and the way his speed affects jumping height are always spot on, and this is something many developers have a lot of trouble getting right (see Kid Chameleon as a good example). The other outstanding thing about Mario games is that their level designs are tremendously inventive. Take a random set of 10 of Super Mario World's 72 levels, compare that sampling against another game that only has 10 levels, and more often than not Mario will show more variety.

Very much agreed on game-long tutorials. The way modern developers tend to give no thought towards second playthroughs drives me up the wall.

I do think he's by far the coolest NG1 boss outside of J & J, if only because catching him with the full brunt of the updraft for meaty damage and a quick KO is a fun technical challenge (easy to miss with some of it... bit like shotgunning Imps in DOOM).

Dang, I've seen your replay before but somehow I had forgotten about this. That works real well! Basaquer was always my least favorite since he can't be spinslashed but now I know what to do.

[mycophobia]

I've recorded a Kirby's Dream Land Extra Game 1CC

sick. that mode is hard

[Immryr]

I crouch for NG st3 boss's bullets, and slash both the middle and bottom bullets. top bullets then fly over my head.

Also I camp in one corner and wait for it, far enough away that I'm safe from the stompin', but can still slash it's orange ass

yeah, i do this too, or use the updraft.

[Marc]

Streets of Rage 4

Dotemu having any relation to this is a nonstarter.

Not feeling that graphic style at all.

[Sumez]

Here's the only other game created by the developers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk9LfoQasnA

[dunpeal2064]

I've at least heard that Streets of Fury was mechanically sound, so thats something. It certainly looks silly.

And hey, Ancient had only done one game before SoR2, and it wasn't SoR. So, we at least have history of a one-game dev coming in and making the next SoR, despite not having made the original. And, it turned out rather well last time!

Not quite sold, but I'll at least keep up with it and see how things go.

[Sumez]

I'm not disagreeing with you but I wanna say that Mario's moveset is excellent because it's small but still very nuanced. The way Mario accelerates and decelerates and the way his speed affects jumping height are always spot on, and this is something many developers have a lot of trouble getting right (see Kid Chameleon as a good example). The other outstanding thing about Mario games is that their level designs are tremendously inventive. Take a random set of 10 of Super Mario World's 72 levels, compare that sampling against another game that only has 10 levels, and more often than not Mario will show more variety.

Pretty much. Mario's moveset is simple but powerful. Unlocking skills one at a time is a completely imcompatible idea to this concept. Mario can do everything from the start, and what he can do is even immediately obvious to the player, but mastering it fully takes a lot of practice despite the games' relatively easy design. It's really ingenious.

Even the new games do this. Case in point Mario Odyssey, which was a surprise to me, as the game has been panned for it's absurdly low difficulty and casual design.
They actually do add a ton of new skills in this one (such as rolling, or comboing the ground pound into a high jump, etc), but pretty none of these are ever necessary, but playing around with them for maneuvering the terrain in more fun ways is enough to make the game highly enjoyable. Even the short challenge stages usually include a more dangerous road you can take if you have enough confidence in your precision jumps. There's no advantage to this aside from having fun, which has always been at the core of a Mario game.

[Stevens]

Doesn't have to be a 1CC, just make it to the end credits.

Always presumed it was a 1 CC requirement based on that we're on shmups:D

Was off communing with nature at an upstate cabin for a few days. No internet or cell phone (I don't have one *gasp*), but lots of fire and beer.

I'll be returning to the fold at some point today though - I've a fair amount of unfinished bidness with Ninja Spirit.

Concerning SOR 4 - I can live with the art style provided the music and game play are on point. That said they can fuck it up - I'll always have SOR Remake and I honestly don't see this game being better than that.