XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Sixfortyfive]

Just wanted to link that video too.

It's nicely explained, but I'm confused as to why they get so much interference with normal composite video sync. All my cables are wired with c-video and there are no problems. I assume their c-video cables are the first they bought and crap. After that they bought quality ones with c-sync. Is there anyone here who has lines in the image with quality cables from retro_console_accessories?

I was surprised when they said this to me while writing/planning the video too. In all the tests I've done, the cross-hatching/checkerboarding thing when using composite video for sync only happened on the XRGB3, not on the Mini. There's lots of different hardware out there though so what happens on one man/womans setup might not on another, etc.

I've definitely had the same experience as them when it comes to the NESRGB on both the XRGB-3 and XCAPTURE-1. Composite sync cables (using CS# from the NESRGB) eliminated diagonal jailbars that were showing up through other cables.

On some other consoles, there isn't a perceivable difference, and I've never really tested my SNES setup in depth.

[BuckoA51]

Recently got a Sega Genesis, Sega CD, and an XRGB mini, what would be the best cable i can get? So far i been looking all over and the best one seems to be the Pack a Punch from Retro Gaming Cables, but they are sold out at the moment.

It's a great cable, probably overkill but hey if you want the best. Unfortunately I can tell you I spoke to Rob at retro gaming cables before Christmas and he said he has no idea when he'll be able to build more of them.

On the other hand, all of his regular cables should be shielded now, due to customer demand, so you could just get a regular MD cable from them to tide you over.

[12345]

There's something I realized the other day about the mini's picture settings on component input. Don't blame me if it has already been documented:
As you all might know there is a common recommendation about adjusting the color level on the mini's component input to avoid oversaturation. As of now I've always thought these settings were universal for the image modes "NATURAL" and "PICTURE" but it seems that they're not. Using the recommended settings on 480p input and "PICTURE", the colors seem very washed out and dull in comparison to "NATURAL". It can't be my TV's fault since it has been calibrated so I wonder if those recommendations are really suitable for my setup?

[zakruowrath]

I did ask Tim if I could wire up the N64 with #CS being on the Sync (S) pin and the #CS75 being on the (V) composite video pin, cutting the jumpers to those pins of course and he did say that was fine, however does that mean I loose regular composite video on the (V) Pin?

Right. You would turn the composite video pin into composite sync 75 after cutting the trace (or potentially just removing a surface mount component from the output circuit) to disable the composite video connection to the multiAV.

I don't really see a reason to run both of them. Unless you plan on running it to multiple displays, you probably just want to use CS75.

Makes sense, I'll probably go with #CS75 on the S pin so I can keep composite video. I just want to get the best sync signal from the N64 so I thought TTL would be more idea since it has a higher voltage. Thanks a lot for your help CkRtech

zakruowrath, thanks for the pic. I cannot explain, then, why my picture is off. Weird. In any case, your pic will help make adjustments.

I recently did an RGB mod of my N64. The resulting quality is pretty bad - the blurriness and aliasing are terrible. But I am unsure if this is due to a bad install or if this is normal for the N64. Can someone please post pics of Ocarina of Time from an RGB-modded N64 (running through the Framemeister, of course)?

It could be your cable, if you have another one, see if you get different results, infact see if you get the correct colour over composite video.

Ask for the N64, which mod did you get installed for it? If you're using composite video as sync, you can get a crappy picture from the N64 in RGB, and the cable quality matters too, I have two cheap cables that show a horrible picture on both the SNES and N64, so I'll be replacing them with composite sync retrogamingcables when I get some funds. Hopefully my Super Famicom and N64 are wired for sync and not just composite video.

[brandonp514]

Hey everyone I have a quick question regarding scanlInes through the mini. I have my settings to Fudoh's recommended setup for 240p and no matter what I do the Scanlines just don't look right. It seems like every 4 scanlines there's an extra thick one and they don't look uniform at all.

I tried increasing the v_width from 32 to 33 and that made it even worse. I tried changing scan_a settings but that just makes them thicker or thinner and doesn't fix the issue.

Any ideas? I have the latest firmware 1.11. No matter if I use an snes through rgb or n64 through svideo the scanlines look uneven. Nothing like they look on pictures I see from other setups. I'm using a 42inch plasma if that matters.

Thanks in advance for the help!

[BuckoA51]

Have you checked your TVs scaling settings as per the wiki?

[Fudoh]

I'm using a 42inch plasma if that matters.

possibly with a 768p panel ?

[brandonp514]

Have you checked your TVs scaling settings as per the wiki

I have the TV set to "set by program" and "just scan", both show the Scanlined the same although set by program does make the image a bit larger.

possibly with a 768p panel ?

I think you're right. Native res is 1024x768 even though it says 720p. Here's a link to the specs.
http://www.searsoutlet.com/42-in-Diagon ... ode=seeAll

[Fudoh]

yes, unfortunately 768p panels are notoriously bad up at upscaling scanlined images. You could check if you get better results with a 480p output from the Mini, but I doubt it.

[12345]

There's something I realized the other day about the mini's picture settings on component input. Don't blame me if it has already been documented:
As you all might know there is a common recommendation about adjusting the color level on the mini's component input to avoid oversaturation. As of now I've always thought these settings were universal for the image modes "NATURAL" and "PICTURE" but it seems that they're not. Using the recommended settings on 480p input and "PICTURE", the colors seem very washed out and dull in comparison to "NATURAL". It can't be my TV's fault since it has been calibrated so I wonder if those recommendations are really suitable for my setup?

Update: It seems as if the color-settings for "NATURAL" were slightly different from the ones used by "PICTURE" so I think rising the saturation on "PICTURE" for arround 2 should approximate the correct values. Too bad it's not possible to alter individual colors.
Furthermore, as I already stated, I think the suggested settings are also outdated because black-/and white-level are way off.
To prevent the white level from crushing I first lowerd the A/D-level to 115 and then continued to rise Brightness and Gamma to achieve a more accurate result in black-level. I left the color-settings more or less untouched since I was too lazy to measure the results with a meter, but I checked it with 240p suite and some material:
A/D: 115
Brightness: 46
Gamma: 16
Black: 0
Hue: 46
Saturation: 24/26 ("NATURAL"/"PICTURE")

The result is maybe a good starting point for further investigations on color. Comments, advice or self experience appreciated.

[TheShadowRunner]

Furthermore, as I already stated, I think the suggested settings are also outdated because black-/and white-level are way off.
To prevent the white level from crushing I first lowerd the A/D-level to 115 and then continued to rise Brightness and Gamma to achieve a more accurate result in black-level. I left the color-settings more or less untouched since I was too lazy to measure the results with a meter, but I checked it with 240p suite and some material:
A/D: 115
Brightness: 46
Gamma: 16
Black: 0
Hue: 46
Saturation: 24/26 ("NATURAL"/"PICTURE")

The result is maybe a good starting point for further investigations on color. Comments, advice or self experience appreciated.

Does your HDTV support 'RGB full' on its HDMI inputs?
If you have no option to toggle between RGB full / RGB limited on the TV, it expects RGB limited.
Since the mini only outputs RGB full (so far at least), the only solution for the "way off black/white level" is to wait and hope for a mini firmware update..

[12345]

Yes it accepts RGB full and I've never had issues with it. The mini's component settings, standard and suggested, are both inaccurate and clip white and black a lot. Just artificially rise brightness to see how much more detail you get on blacks.

[TheShadowRunner]

Just artificially rise brightness to see how much more detail you get on blacks.

Yes, this is characteristics of a color space mismatch.. however I do not use Component input on the mini so I'll refrain from further comment ^^;

[brandonp514]

yes, unfortunately 768p panels are notoriously bad up at upscaling scanlined images. You could check if you get better results with a 480p output from the Mini, but I doubt it.

Well thats no good....

So if you wanted a plasma for the mini what would be your ideal specs for it? 1920x1080 1080p or a true 1280x720 720p panel? What's an ideal size? Could I go up to a bigger size?

Appreciate the info even if it is depressing lol.

[djdavedoc]

Sorry to ask a question thats probably been asked 1000 times already but does anyone know what V1.11's changelog was for the XRGB Mini Firmware?

Thanks,

[12345]

@TheShadowRunner
No, not necessarily characteristical, your greyscale can be fine while your color space might be not.

@djdavedoc
They added Korean language support and improved "CLASSIC_MODE".

[Fudoh]

So if you wanted a plasma for the mini what would be your ideal specs for it? 1920x1080 1080p or a true 1280x720 720p panel? What's an ideal size? Could I go up to a bigger size?

there are no true 720p panels. Most 1080p panels can upscale scanlined 480p and 720p image just fine.

[brandonp514]

there are no true 720p panels. Most 1080p panels can upscale scanlined 480p and 720p image just fine.

This one says maximum 1280x720 resolution. I'm guessing that's not the same as native. Here's the link to what I'm looking at.

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/specif ... &strId=357

[Xan]

It's a 1024x768 panel, but the set can take a 1920x1080 signal.

[brandonp514]

So if you wanted a plasma for the mini what would be your ideal specs for it? 1920x1080 1080p or a true 1280x720 720p panel? What's an ideal size? Could I go up to a bigger size?

there are no true 720p panels. Most 1080p panels can upscale scanlined 480p and 720p image just fine.

What would be your opinion on this plasma monitor?

Pioneer PDP-505cmx
http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/pioneer_pd ... review.htm

Do you think the xrgb mini would handle scan lines through this guy? 1280x768 resolution.

The reason I even bring this up is that I found a good price on it and it's a commercial display. Pioneer made great plasmas even if this one is from 2006.

[Fudoh]

No, if you want upscaled scanlines you really need a 1080p panel.

[brandonp514]

No, if you want upscaled scanlines you really need a 1080p panel.

Thanks Fudoh, greatly appreciate your expertise on the situation. I'm going to save up and buy me a new 1080p plasma before they're gone for good like CRT! By the time it dies hopefully OLED will have good motion equal to CRT and plasma. Can't stand lcds on 2d games. Motion blur is the worse with CRT geometry issues being a close second. Plasma is my happy medium at the moment.

[12345]

Just a brief question about the mini's different sharpness options, I know it has been already asked several times but never fully answered:
After having adjusted the different scalers, why does the mini's output set to 720p with Sharpness on 1 look significantly more accurate than set to 1080p with Sharpness 0/1 on all my inputs? With Sharpness set to 0 I get a seemingly shifted picture on every output, which can be adjusted by increasing the setting to 1. Furthermore, by making only that little adjustment, I couldn't spot any of the waxy look which had been reported in Fudoh's review. Am I missing something?

[Josh128]

there are no true 720p panels. Most 1080p panels can upscale scanlined 480p and 720p image just fine.

This one says maximum 1280x720 resolution. I'm guessing that's not the same as native. Here's the link to what I'm looking at.

http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/specif ... &strId=357

With this particular set, the N64 looks great with no upscaling through a component converter-- not sure how the XRGB will affect it at 480p, but emulated scanlines at 240p are no good.

Raw 240p N64 looks like this:





480i like this:

[TrendyNinja]

Hi guys, I'm new here so please go easy on me.

I'm very close to purchasing the XRGB-mini Framemeister but before I do I just have a few questions that I was hoping somebody could help me out with.

Nearly all of my consoles are PAL accept for my RGB modded N64. I'm not really that bothered about having games running in 60hz I just want to have a much clearer picture whilst playing games with my original Xbox, Dreamcast, PS2 and my NTSC RGB modded N64. I do eventually want to purchase a Sega MD and SNES.

Are there any known issues with the Framemeister and using PAL consoles that I need to be made aware of before I go ahead and purchase? Like I say, all I'm interested in is just getting a nice sharp picture again and being able to enjoy my old games as I remember them.

Also, what of games where you have the option to switch to 60hz or as with the original Xbox you can set it to permanently use the 60hz option...any known issues with this?

Sorry if these questions have already been answered.

[scottmog]

Got an issue with horizontal white lines that movie vertically down on a Japanese Super Famicom.

Currently this is my setup: Super Famicom - scart cable - shinybow switch - scart to jp21 pin - micomsoft framemeister - hdmi to tv

[Thomago]

Are there any known issues with the Framemeister and using PAL consoles that I need to be made aware of before I go ahead and purchase?

I use several PAL consoles myself (PSone, PS2, Gamecube) and they work like a charm with the Framemeister - no problems at all! Btw tinkering with the Zoom function added with one of the last firmware updates allows vertically stretching the picture, thereby eleminating PAL bars.

Also, what of games where you have the option to switch to 60hz or as with the original Xbox you can set it to permanently use the 60hz option...any known issues with this?

Only issue is that you have to do the switching between 50 and 60 Hz yourself; the Framemeister doesn't do that itself.

[TrendyNinja]

Oh wow I'm really pleased to read this! Thank you so much!

Well I'm off to make my order!

One last question, could anybody recommend me a power supply to use?

[Thomago]

I'm using this one:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Goobay-NTS-3000- ... 20de6a9ab1

No need to pick up the same one; just bear in mind that you need a power suppy that is able to provide 3.00 Ampere at 5.0 Volt.

[TrendyNinja]

Thank you.