Degica Shmups Thread

[Special World]

Ginga Force is amazing and for a while I flip-flopped but I'ma say Eschatos is definitely better. Ginga Force has some things I love (dear god the shield break is just such a beautiful mechanic) but Eschatos is like 100% amazing business through and through. Ginga Force has a little bit of flab; I could really go without playing stage 2 ever again for instance.

IDK, Stage 3 (excluding the boss) has some silly stuff in Eschatos. Does anyone like the part with the random crystals falling and 3D boss collisions? It's not that bad once you learn it but I always question how that section is good design.

Ginga Force has a lot of variety as each stage has a distinct theme and there's a lot of content, and while a couple of the stages are lackluster there's a lot of brilliant level and boss design in there. I don't like 2,5,9 much but love 3,6,7. Luckily score attack is single stage.

Whenever I consider the game I'm thinking about Hard score attack. I'm not sure if a lot of people have put in the time to unlock it, that's a bit of a barrier. The game is clearly balanced around the three ships available in score attack. The three ships are very different from eachother for more variety.. type-B with the charge bomb is one of the coolest STG ships, I need to get to learning it sometime.

Ya, I would say half of Ginga Force's stages are brilliant, a quarter are solid, and the rest I don't like much. The one with the clone ships (and that music track, ugh) and the one with the purple turrets on the aircraft carrier are my favorites (though I think I dislike the boss in that stage).

Stage 3 of Eschatos I'm fine with, I don't really like those stupid homing laser shooting tripods much, but I do like the crystal maze. It's kind of a pain in the ass but it's a really distinctive feature and it's not really that tough to get through. Occasionally I'll get trapped by a yellow pinecone but that's because I'm focusing on those asshole rotating enemies. that spit flak in every direction. A lot of games have *really* questionable "environmental hazards" sections, but Eschatos isn't one of them. That part of the level isn't even a memorizer, it's pretty straightforward and easy to dodge through.

And yeah, Ginga Force's score attack ship selection is sublime. I just wish the ship that slowed down time didn't also add that blur effect. But I mostly use the orange Type-B ship anyways, it's everything I want in a shooter ship.

[Zaarock]

Stage 3 of Eschatos I'm fine with, I don't really like those stupid homing laser shooting tripods much, but I do like the crystal maze. It's kind of a pain in the ass but it's a really distinctive feature and it's not really that tough to get through. Occasionally I'll get trapped by a yellow pinecone but that's because I'm focusing on those asshole rotating enemies. that spit flak in every direction. A lot of games have *really* questionable "environmental hazards" sections, but Eschatos isn't one of them. That part of the level isn't even a memorizer, it's pretty straightforward and easy to dodge through.

It's worth keeping in mind there are more crystals in the maze depending on difficulty. There's a ton on hardest. Since you cannot shoot through them and there are randomly positioned enemies you have to kill to maintain your chain it seems like luck plays a significant factor in scoring in that part (why are there blue missiles of all things there?).

Very rarely can I fully maintain a chain through that whole section and I feel it usually involves getting lucky spawns. It's a very small section of the game but the more I think about how it's designed the worse it seems.

[awry]

You can actually move over the purple crystals most of the time. The ends will glow white when they can hurt you. The three eggs will have a red glow when they can hurt you.

[Legendary Hoamaru]

This is a topic of love, lets spread the love everyone



<3 for everyone! Everyone doesn't have to like or enjoy Eschatos, it's fine.

I'm not a fan of the single stage scoring style for Ginga, kinda removes tension for me, but it has some amazing bosses/levels. Might give hard score a shot someday though.

I know it benefits to stay high if you want to keep your chain on stage 3 crystal maze, but I wonder if you can get away with shielding the enemies that spawn from the top. Also, I haven't tested in PC version, but on 360 some patterns that seem very random are actually based on your x and y position. The biggest example is the very first wave of the game, the missiles will fall the same way if you (always) stay in the bottom left corner. The problem is, this applies to each individual missile not the whole wave (so you couldn't setup the pattern in the bottom left then move to the top and keep that same wave). I wonder if this can apply to Stage 3's crystal field or is it truly random. Sometimes I feel the yellow crystals are aimed at you in some way.

There is still a lot of digging to be done for this game.

Edit: Just did like a quick test, shielding around top might be legit at beginning. Of course you'd have to drop down and wide when the missiles come. Hardest might be a different story since those cylinder things fire purple bullets.

Edit 2: Maybe its better to just wideshot at top. Either way you want to be high.

[Squire Grooktook]

<3 for everyone! Everyone doesn't have to like or enjoy Eschatos, it's fine.

Yeah, I agree. I Really didn't mean any harm or think I would offend anyone. I'm sorry.

[Elixir]

please teach me your magical ways, I'll prove it that directinput isn't working: http://webm.host/bdddb/

It doesn't matter which input preset I start Eschatos with, either. Just because PS4 works (which isn't correct mapping, most people use DS4Tool to emulate Xinput) doesn't actually mean anything, PS4 uses POV hats much like 360 controllers/sticks which use Xinput, which Eschatos obviously supports as it's a 360 backport.

I watched your video showing your issue. One thing I noticed is that eschatos is asking you to push joy button 9. I saw that when you were showing your inputs working that button 9 never lit up. It seems you aren't pressing or do not have button 9 to get passed the start screen.

Doesn't matter, the controller is simply unrecognized at the title screen, in the game, or in the menus. I will probably request a Steam refund at this point, I bought the game for full retail at release, digitally on Games on Demand and now a third time on Steam, and I just don't care any more. I don't even like Steam - you should hear about what Treasure had to do just to get Ikaruga on it.

Eschatos has been bandwagoned on this forum quite hard. This forum has a tendency of doing so: one year it was Futari, another year it was Ketsui (2009 I believe), another year it was UFO. Not that I don't believe bandwagoning can't be justified, there's games like Kaikan, CCWI, Mecha Ritz, ring-^27 and others that have been worthy of it, but just because a game is good and it isn't made by Cave doesn't mean it's the best thing since sliced bread. I acknowledge Eschatos is a good game (hell, I even made the OP for the game's release), but it doesn't need to be shoved down people's throats.

I've already had people come to me asking if they should buy Eschatos on Steam ("lix do i buy this shmup??? is it gud???" is something I'd prefer a little less of) but the honest answer is that I don't think there's any benefit to owning this if you already own or can purchase the 360 version.

[Legendary Hoamaru]

You could always use something like Joy2Key to assign your gamepad to keys, although this issue should eventually be fixed by the devs. I know I needed it with Kaikan before I found some custom drivers that prevented the ship from automatically moving diagonal.

[Blattdorf]

Eschatos, where have you been all my life? Such an amazing game with an amazing port. I also appreciate the WonderSwan ports, they're fun to play, too.

DotEmu should take notes because damn.

[d3vak]

Well I didn't have any problem with the Xbox 360 controller, didn't even have to configure it. Luckily I'm comfortable playing with it.

[Squire Grooktook]

Mecha Ritz should have a hype train here though.

[d3vak]

What I love about PC gaming are the constant updates / patch releases... IIRC, Crimzon Clover had many issues on it's Steam release. Just be patient, people... Feedback alongside bug reporting is good for the game.

[Weak Boson]

Posted an Eschatos review on steam, doing the good lord's work. Obviously all we really want to do is gush praise from every orifice, but I tried to make it understandable for someone who isn't necessarily into the genre. The people need to know!

Spoiler

In short: extremely high quality shmup in a unique style.

I love the genre and this game blows me away. I played it a fair bit on the 360 and it compares favourably to many of its contemporaries on that platform. This means it's a huge cut above the average shooter, and a shining example of what true "arcade quality" is like. Indeed, though it did not to my knowledge receive an arcade release, it's very much an arcade experience.

This is a game you come to because you have some spare time and you want to ride a rollercoaster! It's all about in-the-moment take-nothing-for-granted high octance action. When you start the game up, you don't know if you're going to crash and burn by the first boss, or blaze a trail of destruction straight to the enemy's front door. It all depends on you, and that's what keeps it engaging when time after time you come back to it.

That being understood, there's lots to like about this game. The 2.5D graphics, exquisite music and cinematic camera work give a real sense of drama to the game. Like, "oh my god now I'm facing the real boss!" But it's when you look at the gameplay, mechanics and design that things get really interesting.

It's not your typical shmup so it's hard to compare it directly to others in the genre; on the one hand, the level of bullets is certainly par for a bullet hell game, but the game also encourages you to destroy entireties of enemy waves - and it's designed to make this challenging and fun - so it's not a dodge 'em up - it has a much more classic, visceral feel. (Though I suppose the references to Space Invaders and Galaga also play their part!) Add into this the particular weapons loadout (the shield being the most notable part) correct use of which demands more than typical shmup tactics - and you've got quite a distinct experience.

There's a good amount of content too. This comes in the form of different variations on "the game" which let you play and replay it again and again in different ways. These are Original, Advanced, Time Attack and Endless modes. The meatiest of these are Original and Advanced, which differ in scoring mechanics and weapon power ups. But they also each have four difficulty settings. "Easy" is of course only named so in relation to the others, and while clearing the game on this mode is a manageable challenge, it is distinctly non trivial.

What I find particularly pleasing is how the different difficulty modes are balanced so that each step up really feels like "a different beast" It makes playing each of them a distinct experience that's fun in its own way. As your proficiency with the game increases, you can always go back to "Easy" mode and focus on the Original and Advanced scoring systems - or you can crank it up and surrender yourself to a whirlwind of bullets for that pure survival "I can't believe I've got this far!" experience. It's really just a matter of how far you let it take you!

Lastly, a word on the "Wonder Pack". This includes the OST (DRM free and ACE) and "Judgment Silversword - Rebirth" which has its own store page and is actually a compilation of the two games that came before this one. They come recommended, too, so the Wonder Pack is great value if you're interested in the older games.

Thanks for reading!

[Special World]

So yeah feel free to tell us why this is worth buying over the 360 version if it's accessible. We're all waiting to hear it.

Some people don't have a 360 or would rather play games on their PC. I'm just the opposite; I vastly prefer playing games on a console, to the point where I basically don't even follow PC gaming news at all. I don't really care honestly-Eschatos is my single favorite STG since Futari Black, so whatever people want to play and enjoy it on is p much irrelevant to me.

[Elixir]

a quote taken out of context just to create a strawman argument

I'mma sit this one out.

So yeah feel free to tell us why this is worth buying over the 360 version if it's accessible. We're all waiting to hear it.

Some people don't have a 360 or would rather play games on their PC. I'm just the opposite; I vastly prefer playing games on a console, to the point where I basically don't even follow PC gaming news at all. I don't really care honestly-Eschatos is my single favorite STG since Futari Black, so whatever people want to play and enjoy it on is p much irrelevant to me.

It's not about the platform of choice, rather which version of the game is superior (including JSS/CS). Most people wouldn't think 360 is the answer.

From the people I've spoken to both east and west at Degica I feel like they're serious enough to iron out the patches for Eschatos, but I'm not 100% convinced that they'll add leaderboard support for JSS/CS which was in the 360 port. I'm all about JSS so it's a make or break deal for me. And like I said before, I only bought Eschatos on PC because I couldn't buy Judgement Silversword separately at the time.

Kinda funny how I'm catching flack for a game I literally introduced the forum to.

[awry]

Well the PC port really is subpar. I can't even view downloaded replays without desync, and it's silly for a relatively simple 360 game to have all these framerate issues.

That said, it will be the definitive version once the issues are fixed, because it's been localized to English and it supports full HD resolutions.

To people having controller issues, have you tried x360ce? It can make any game recognize your controller as if it was a 360 gamepad.

[qmish]

Would be better to buy it now to inspire Degica and devs fixing all things or wait until bugs are fixed?

[ShamefurDispray]

I just would like to also humbly request to that BlackBird fella that JSS and CS get online leaderboards!

[CStarFlare]

Would be better to buy it now to inspire Degica and devs fixing all things or wait until bugs are fixed?

Even if they never get fixed it's worth playing and you'll never find it cheaper for X360. Get it.

[rtw]

If I find any issues with Eschatos is this thread the appropriate place to post or is there an "official" thread ?

[HydrogLox]

or is there an "official" thread ?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/378770/di ... 304364597/

If you find a bug, please report it here so that we can fix it promptly.
When reporting a bug, please include as much detail as possible, including a description of the bug, your system specs, and any hardware/peripherals that may be involved with the bug.
Thank you for playing ESCHATOS!
Current Version: initial launch build V1.0.4

[rtw]

or is there an "official" thread ?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/378770/di ... 304364597/

Thank you!

[Frenetic]

Removed posts that descended into personal attacks. Let's please keep posts civil and on topic.

Thanks,
F

[Cee]

Any news on Deltazeal?

[Blackbird]

I'll have new info for you very soon! Probably this week.

[kassj0peja]

I'll have new info for you very soon! Probably this week.

News regarding Deltazeal or something else?

[Cee]

I'll have new info for you very soon! Probably this week.

News regarding Deltazeal or something else?

Well seeing as the question leading to his reply was "any news on deltazeal?" then yeah the news will obviously be regarding deltazeal.

[STGAlmond]

DeltaZela date finally announced October 16th. A bundle of both games and soundtracks too


https://twitter.com/DegiGames/status/652563392419512320

[Blackbird]

DeltaZeal is now confirmed for 10/16! In addition to the base game, we'll also release the OSTs for DeltaZeal and XIIZeal. Finally, there will also be a pack, tentatively titled "Shooting Love Anniversary -DeltaZeal + XIIZeal-" which includes both games and both OSTs in one compilation, so you can get all the Triangle Service content at once.

DeltaZeal will have trading cards this time, and we'll also update XIIZeal to have trading cards as well (sorry it took so long!).

Please look forward to it!

[Satan]

Good work, are you bothering with all that #Gamesmatter stuff?

[Blackbird]

Are you talking about the games giveaway channel, or something else?