Recommended Anime/Manga?

[soprano1]

Xyga, it's as fucking shounen series running for years, of course it had to fuck up at some point. What's important is that it sells manga volumes, merchandise, and that every kid buys the over expensive Blurays with 3 episodes each.

[Xyga]

Yes of course, that's expected. But nothing forbids the writers to make something decent, the broader problem is again that apparently manga (and therefore anime) authors can't fucking write a conclusion to their stories (more precisely in this case; a conclusion to the plot).

This isn't just a shounen shit writer problem, even the better ones (sometimes coming from visual/light novel territory) although capable of writing insane stories like Higurashi or Re:Zero, just can't help but screw up the conclusion.

It's either a widespread deficit in imagination in that field of industry (probable) or a taboo, like the fear of making a conclusion not up to the rest of the plot, which ironically auto-generates a bad/meh conclusion anyway (not that far-fetched imho).

EDIT: yes I was disappointed with the conclusion of Re:Zero

Spoiler

Re:Zero is a fucking awesome fun ride as long as it's sadistically mindfucking, but when Subaru gets his shit back together, basically all the final part of the anime with that whale hunt shit, it falls back to conventional anime level and stops being interesting.
Doesn't make the ride until that part any less fun though, still highly recommended.

[ZacharyB]

The reason they can't write conclusions is because they never know when they're coming. Manga authors work not on the basis of quality but on popularity. If they fall in the polls, their stories are voted out by the editor, and they get 1-3 chapters to end the story, no matter what grand scheme they had in mind. Additionally, plotlines get banged around like a pinball as they add or subtract things in an attempt to keep the story popular enough to stay in syndication. Ever see a manga end weirdly or abruptly? The author was probably voted off of the syndicate. Producing around 30 pages a week is no small task, and without the finances of syndication, the story is most likely dead. That's Shounen. Some more mature titles dial it back to once a month, but they still have to meet the popularity standards.

Keep in mind that, these works, which are so dependent on creativity, are also always under the chopping block (or slogging through endless contracts, like Naruto), and the stories aren't going to be War and Peace. There's no humanity here for that. I read a manga author's schedule once... the number of hours off a week were 3.

[soprano1]

The reason they can't write conclusions is because they never know when they're coming. Manga authors work not on the basis of quality but on popularity. If they fall in the polls, their stories are voted out by the editor, and they get 1-3 chapters to end the story, no matter what grand scheme they had in mind. Additionally, plotlines get banged around like a pinball as they add or subtract things in an attempt to keep the story popular enough to stay in syndication. Ever see a manga end weirdly or abruptly? The author was probably voted off of the syndicate. Producing around 30 pages a week is no small task, and without the finances of syndication, the story is most likely dead. That's Shounen. Some more mature titles dial it back to once a month, but they still have to meet the popularity standards.

Keep in mind that, these works, which are so dependent on creativity, are also always under the chopping block (or slogging through endless contracts, like Naruto), and the stories aren't going to be War and Peace. There's no humanity here for that. I read a manga author's schedule once... the number of hours off a week were 3.

This is true. They even showed that in Bakuman, the popularity factor.

[Xyga]

I'm aware of that but with behemoth franchises like Naruto or shit it's not like absolutely everything lays on the mangaka's shoulders, is it ?
They have bloody years of time, they could gather people and brainstorm ideas from time to time and agree on a decent mainline scenario/story, including how it will end, couldn't they ?

Look at One Piss, the plot so far holds on a single paragraph, they can introduce a final story arc anytime, even in 10 more years from now if they want, without changing or adding a single line.
So basically they have years of time, decades, to write a second paragraph that would end the story nicely...yet they don't and wait until it's practically too late to change anything to the production schedule, probably just asking the mangaka (or writer if the mangaka is not it) to wrap up something as quickly as he can when the popularity drops ?

Of course who cares it's shounen shit for kids anyway...but fuck that's stupid.

[soprano1]

Of course who cares it's shounen shit for kids anyway...but fuck that's stupid.

I agree with you on that point.

[soprano1]

Anyone reading Getter Robo Devolution? Smells too much of early Evangelion, but it seems Ryoma is getting the balls of the other Ryoma's on the latest chapter.

[BryanM]

I guess that's one reason things adopted from light novels turn out a bit better on the average. Besides the survivor's bias of already filtering out things no one wants to buy. And how endless "he punched a guy and charged his laser" doesn't make for sellable prose, but apparently is completely profitable in the world of mangoo. Bunch of OCD spergs'll keep reading anything once they're invested.

They have bloody years of time, they could gather people and brainstorm ideas from time to time and agree on a decent mainline scenario/story, including how it will end, couldn't they ?

In Naruto's case this probably was the plan for years - a Zeromus boss and then a final broduel. That's why it felt tacked on - they have this epic war thing plotted out and refused to veer anywhere else. Quite frankly it would have been more interesting if he'd just married Hinata and ninja hijinks ensued (remember the ninja hijinks that got you invested? Remember!?!).

It's easier and safer to regurgitate the same stuff that's come before. That's the incentive structure in mangoo - experiment and be liberal at the start, then if you make it: be as conservative as possible to keep the checks coming in.

Nothing is more dangerous in turning people off than expressing an opinion: opinions lead to disagreements, disagreements lead to anger, anger leads to reduced annual revenue.

[Xyga]

My complaint though is that they've wasted only the bad guy climax. To me the single supervilain thing should be the conservative thing, while the matryoshka is unseen afaik (or just with two villains, not so many in succession)

No criticism over the broduel which comes perfectly in place and is probably the best thing in the entire show.

And well that too; after all two successive conclusions is already quite original, too bad they've messed the first one.

[Skykid]

It's the same with Naoki Urusawa. The man is unbelievably talented, but of all his manga only Pluto holds its temperament for the duration, and that's probably because it's the only one with an actual pre-concieved beginning, middle and end. Its detective story has a satisfying final note and conclusion that comes precisely when it should.

On the other hand the initial brilliance of 20th Century Boys is snuffed out when it fails to end 6 times over and ends up an overlong confused mess that even has additional addendums that make things even worse. You can feel it meandering and getting progressively further away from the original plot points that made it so intriguing.

Recently I've just finished Billy Bat, and while it's admittedly less of a mess than 20th Century Boys, it still lacks any proper direction after about halfway through. The entire thing doesn't really work anyway: the self-indulgent tribute to manga artists and the joy of their work as storytellers is fine, but the entire thing about talking cartoon bats influencing history and the future is so plainly ridiculous it can't be taken anywhere near as seriously as it wants to be.

The answers you're waiting for in the conclusion never really materialise and it doesn't really ever reach what can be considered a satisfying *actual* ending.

If it wasn't for Urusawa's brilliance it wouldn't hold out. It's only because of his effortless and masterful draftsmanship, staging, character development and cliffhanger pacing that it's still so readable. But I wish he'd go back to preformatted stories like Pluto where he's free to build a story that already has a guaranteed payoff.

[BryanM]

ever notice how the guy who makes One Piece is bi and has a bunch of weird fetishes

Everyone who makes mango has weird fetishes.

The #1 selling mango is Porny Time With Monster Girls. It's entire purpose of being is to indoctrinate people into a very dark, dark world.

Snake cloaca.

[atheistgod1999]

My new nicknames are honestly making me laugh

I deleted that post in particular because I was afraid it would ignite something. I actually mentioned that in the Late Realizations thread last summer, but Lord Satori thought what I said was fucked up and part of the reason people on here dislike me.

Back on topic: 4kids censored everything but the most unsuitable thing. Just the thought that Oda probably jacks off to humanoid Chopper

[WelshMegalodon]

Last time I checked, animation was only slightly more mainstream in Japan than it was in the US, and they're just as weirded out by bizarre fetishes as Westerners are. Don't fall into the TVTropes Trap.

Not that Japanese culture doesn't have problems of its own. You'll have to ask someone more qualified to elaborate on that, though.

EDIT: Slightly more, not less. Also reworded the last bit to flow a bit better.

[atheistgod1999]

^Yes, I deleted that part for exactly that reason.

But yeah, TV Tropes made me think at least half of major games had horribly botched PC versions, thanks to their Porting Disaster page.

[NTSC-J]

Last time I checked, animation was only slightly less mainstream in Japan than it was in the US, and they're just as weirded out by bizarre fetishes as Westerners are. Don't fall into the TVTropes Trap.

Which isn't to say Japanese culture doesn't have problems of its own, but you'll have to ask someone more qualified to elaborate on that.

The closest thing I know of is the custom of adults bathing with their kids, sometimes well into adolescence. It's not uncommon for dads to bathe with their teenage daughters (I read an article that said around 10% of families do this). During this time, some dads will feel their daughter's growing breasts and make comments about them which is healthy, normal behavior that creates good boundaries.

[Ji-L87]

I mean 80% old animation and 20% new scenes.

Aaaaaand I finally sat down and watched the 3rd movie. Probably the best of the trilogy, I have to say.
Lots of action and plot momentum. Also newtypes everywhere

I tried really hard to look out for that new animation, but I'm not sure I managed to spot it. Anyhow, feels great having gone through all of that so I can start with Zeta Gundam, of which I only managed to squeeze in one episode before hitting the sack. It sure is nice going from DVD to bluray.

Anyhow, I didn't understand much from that first episode, or rather, I didn't understand WTF Kamille was up to. Not the most vocally expressive guy so far but going from skipping after school judo practice to punching multiple military officers, stealing vehicles and crashing through checkpoints whilst being shot at is a pretty big feat, I guess

[null1024]

Kamille is wonderful.

• skips class
• punches an officer
• runs from the military
• steals a car [IIRC]
• steals a gundam
• joins the "terrorists"

I should re-watch Zeta. He chills out a ton compared to this, but they really wanted to show you right out the gate that Kamille isn't like Amuro.

[Ji-L87]

I should re-watch Zeta. He chills out a ton compared to this, but they really wanted to show you right out the gate that Kamille isn't like Amuro.

I dunno, I get a similar dysfunctional vibe from them, except that Kamille needs to chill Is this how Tomino likes his characters, lol?

I don't mind a bombastic first episode, I just didn't see any at all reason for him to go ballistics the way he did. I don't even know who these "Titan" clowns are yet and what I'm supposed to think about them. That said, can't wait to get home from work and watch some more.

Also, was super happy to see that my man Bright is still around and kicking.

[Durandal]

I love Kamille (no homo), he just instantly grabs your attention at first by defying any expectations you have because of his space autism (literally), before taking a chill pill and becoming a cool guy who finds him in progressively more ridiculous situations.

Too bad the latter half of Zeta is such a slog.

[Ji-L87]

I'm about 9 episodes or so in now and Zeta have turned out to be quite the ride. The role reversal is fun, albeit slightly confusing (with how the federation is now using Zakus/Hizacks/whatever) and it's nice to see Char, sorry, Quattro Bajeena ( ) get this much screen time. And the pacing, it just keeps on moving. Sad to hear it'll slow down later.
Like you guys stated, it's also fun to watch Kamille grow compared to Amuro and speaking of the old cast, holy wow Kai, such a boss. (I really started to like him half-way through the movies, glad to see him turn up again.)

Also, with the old cast, when I said that I was happy that Bright was "still around and kicking", I wasn't expecting him to get actually kicked in the second or so episode. Man, Zeta is just so weird, can't help but to like it. Everybody gets slapped around and beat up

I think I'm getting some Seed & Destiny vibes from Zeta actually. Haven't watched those since high school so I don't remember much but certain situations and scenarios feel similar.

[soprano1]

I think I'm getting some Seed & Destiny vibes from Zeta actually. Haven't watched those since high school so I don't remember much but certain situations and scenarios feel similar.

SEED and SEED Destiny were made to be Original Gundam and Zeta "remade" to kids in 2002/2004, so it's not weird at all you have those vibes.

[soprano1]

Read some chapters of Omorai-kun, a 1972 manga by Go Nagai. It's a shounen gag manga, with some dark humour mixed, of a very dirty kid. It gets so disgusting at times, but it's funny as shit.

[KAI]

Nagai's scatologic humor is the best.

Talking about Gundam, I finished Victory a few days ago. Pretty fucked up sometimes, but I just love when Tomino goes full Tomino.


Nagano has been publishing non stop for almost an entire year, and Five Star Stories is about to get a new volume (still can't believe he's been drawing it for 3 decades now). I've read all the translated volumes 4 times already and I can't get sick of it. Even if it's the clusterfuckest thing ever, I think this manga is perfect.
Wish there were more chapters scanlated

[soprano1]

Oh, Five Star Stories. Love the lush mecha designs. Didn't know it was still going.

[whatevergundam]

anyone who hasn't read it yet should TOTALLY read Gundam: The Origin. its the story Tomino would've told if 70s television standards weren't so strict, its like a whole new story.

[soprano1]

anyone who hasn't read it yet should TOTALLY read Gundam: The Origin. its the story Tomino would've told if 70s television standards weren't so strict, its like a whole new story.

Yes, it's been revered through this topic ever since the anime OVA started.

[M.Knight]

Too bad the latter half of Zeta is such a slog.

It always makes me happy to see other people who didn't like Zeta's second half. To me, it was way too repetitive, aimless and rife with fake drama, and that's a shame because the series starts off pretty strong I think. I also really liked Kai in that one. While I didn't care for him that much in 0079, he has here become quite the accomplished guy.

Talking about Gundam, I finished Victory a few days ago. Pretty fucked up sometimes, but I just love when Tomino goes full Tomino.

Victory started with a serious vibe but for me, it quickly devolved into unintentional dark/absurd comedy, only surpassed in generated laughs by ZZ. And I loved it for that, just as I loved ZZ's goofy side.
So many WTF moments in that show such as

Spoiler

the infamous Lupe scene, the prison wedding, the ugly mantis-like mobile armor kicking the V Gundam's crotch, all the terribly out-of-place insert songs, the bikini bazooka babes, and so on and so forth.

Most character deaths aside from

Spoiler

Odello whom I really liked and whose death annoyed the heck out of me

made me laugh a lot as well, especially

Spoiler

Uso's mom who got behaded by a giant battleship with motorcycle wheels that slipped. The real highlight of that death -and the moment I truly burst into laughter- was Uso later bringing back the helmet she wore with her freshly cut head still inside! WTF?!
Francesca's death was also very funny given how stupid and sudden it was.

I genuinely believe that I wouldn't have enjoyed Victory Gundam as much if I tried to take it seriously, but YMMV I guess.

anyone who hasn't read it yet should TOTALLY read Gundam: The Origin. its the story Tomino would've told if 70s television standards weren't so strict, its like a whole new story.

I am eagerly waiting for the OAV adaptation to end to see them all. I could watch them as soon as they air, but I prefer seeing everything while the previous episodes are still fresh in my mind. I have even held off on watching Rebuild of Evangelion for a decade now for the same reasons...

[Durandal]

Tomino has a thing for making surreal, desperate and emotional climaxes, which I really like
0079 had the whole Newtype shit going on with everyone being able to hear Lalah's singing, Zeta unintentionally achieved it for me when I had no idea what the fuck was going on (why the hell is everyone having a shootout in a fucking opera house of a deserted colony only to all retreat to their mobile suits unharmed, like wtf) on top of everyone dying left and right despite being fine for over 45 episodes, CCA being a slightly confusing end to Char's and Amuro's rivalry (with even MORE CRAZY Newtype shit going on) and Victory was just batshit insane with Uso becoming the target of several mentally deranged women while fighting off a battalion of bikini bazookas in a flying halo in order to prevent all Earthlings from becoming babies

I really like it when things get more abstract once the emotions start surging

[Lord Satori]

Was Victory the one with that bitch that turns evil for seemingly no reason?

[Durandal]

Was Victory the one with that bitch that turns evil for seemingly no reason?

Yup, that's the one