The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

[BIL]

Hmm... judging by my post last Friday, I think about ten-fifteen hours? After Splatterhouse Part 3, this is the only game I've been playing the last few days since then. But as with Castlevania IV, I had plenty of prior experience (1CCd the coin-op version many times, and a lot of the strategies I use there apply 1:1 to MD Original, whose Normal mode is nowhere near as tough - so it was pretty much Easy->Normal, rather than Normal->Hard).

As with all good arcade-oriented stuff there's a difference between surviving and mastery, of course. Plenty of stuff I could do better, but as with all of my runs this is more of a basic demo than anything approaching superior play. Also I'm inherently lazy, exam-harassed and prone to developing extreme Restart Frenzy if I get too intense about this stuff. ;3

[BIL]

Finally. Stage 3's blinding snow layer effect really put up the filesize + processing time, I think. I was tempted to disable the layer when encoding but I gots ta keep it real (also, you really can't see shit at times there, it's embarassing if it looks like you're just blundering around!).

[Skykid]

Splice-tastic!

Some lovely skill there (and plenty of tricks). I'm impressed by how confidently you merc everything, with very tight bullet weaving. Also happy to see you take a few licks and keep going, I always prefer superplays with realism.

Good timescale 10 - 15 hrs. I'm sure Original is quite a bit longer than Arcade right (I don't recognise most of those stages... unless it's just been that long since I played arcade. )

Great stuff anyway BIL, you gots da dedication, I love it. Moar.

[BIL]

Ta! Although some enemies are new/altered, a lot of tactics come straight from the coinop, really. For popcorns you want to be constantly monitoring+hosing the periphery of the screen to prevent Popcorn Overload, which is a much deadlier issue in Original with the addition of random suicide bombers. Their bullets and grenades look slow but you'll get hemmed in quickly if you're not proactive about hacking the buggers down, staying a step ahead of their attacks, and not letting any get near you. There's a bit at the start of Stage 6 where a lone popcorn traps me with his machinegun spray, because I blindly put myself against a wall while moving away. Does no significant harm but it's a neat illustration of what'll happen if you're not keeping an eye on them.

For heavy artillery there's usually a blind spot you want to stay in while returning fire - if the shots are destructible you want to sync return fire with them, if not, the exact opposite, shoot and scoot. I completely cocked up the Stage 5 tank lines by ignoring this and half-heartedly bombing. Normally I'd lure them to either screen edge where they can only shoot straight down, so I can safely cover my back while chipping their armour down. The other places I take a beating are Stages 6 and 7's WMD trucks. Their missiles have to be dodged on reaction, which means total attention... not standing about wondering if I can afford to bomb.

From looking at the run I should probably use Launcher on these vehicles more, but it's never as simple as just picking the strong/slow character with the constant threat of suicide popcorn spawning right in your face.

Pretty sure Original is a bit longer than the coinop, yeah. Most of its stages borrow their settings from the AC game (coast, swamp, town, port, base) but the remainder are all-new (forest, mountains, desert). All are 100% original designwise, of course.

Just noticed the emulator I recorded this with has an undetectable slow-mo option. I thought it'd show up in the replay's framerate stats if active, but apparently not. Good job I didn't obsess too much over this run. It's probably time I stopped mucking about and got a good hardware capture setup, certainly before I start trying to record really good runs. The only emulators I can find with AVI dumping features are a falsificare wonderland, the rest blow ass at making video files and my PC is too feeble for external capture programs. If anyone suspects I may have falsificared something btw, please say and I'll post an input file of the same standard or better for the emu of your choice within 24 hrs, free of charge. I only ask that you accuse me of falsificare in public first, for ego purposes. :3

[Obiwanshinobi]

Cool Herzog Zwei retrospective on Eurogamer.
Is Hyper Duel officially a Herzog spin-off?

[Nana]

Just got a Sega Genesis myself! The unit I currently have (technically a rental, but I can buy it if I decide I want it) has a strong buzzing that drowns out the sound and occasionally screen tearing from the bottom to the top. However, the buzzing goes away after about an hour. Somebody on IRC mentioned that it could be a bad capacitor, so if that's the case, I'll just find another one, but would anyone happen to know about this issue?

Having a ton of fun with it so far; mainly been playing Twinkle Tale and MUSHA. MUSHA's pretty different from any other shooter I've played yet -- I guess it's the first real shmup designed for a console instead of arcade I've played so far, though.

[BIL]

Cool Herzog Zwei retrospective on Eurogamer.
Is Hyper Duel officially a Herzog spin-off?

Not that I know of. It'd be cool though, with Hyper Duel's protagonists being human-piloted transformers and the antagonist an AI-controlled enemy model that went rogue and turned on its own side. The ultimate "USER BRAIN" vs "CPU BRAIN" transformer showdown.

There was an interesting theory here about Blast Wind being a stealth Thunder Force prequel, which I've since adopted for lack of outright denials.

Neat anecdote there about HZ being given away "4 FREE" with a console. Some months back, I was surprised at how easy it was to find a Japanese HZ mint+complete for peanuts, but now I wonder just how unloved the game was over there.

[BrianC]

Neat anecdote there about HZ being given away "4 FREE" with a console. Some months back, I was surprised at how easy it was to find a Japanese HZ mint+complete for peanuts, but now I wonder just how unloved the game was over there.

What's even more surprising is that the game is in English.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Fired up the Japanese MD version of Virtua Racing and was pleasantly surprised to learn that it has code to play it on both JPN NTSC & PAL/SECAM MD consoles. On the Free Run mode, if playing in PAL mode, the framerate is boosted up easily (of course, there's no A.I. driving alongside you making for a better racing experience indeed). Only if the framerate could be retained when playing any of the three courses with a full set of A.I. cars, that would've been ace (seems like to be running at 15-20 frames per second at best given the hardware limitations that Sega had to work with). Still impressive nevertheless.

I do recall seeing the Sega Genesis version of Virtua Racing with a MSRP of $99.99 USD back in 1994...thought that it was too pricey.

Is the CPU overclocked to 12mHz and the 9,000 polygons (albeit low-res) per second pretty accurate with the NTSC MD Virtua Racing port?

On the JPN & USA NTSC regions of Sega 32X Virtua Racing port, what's the framerate running at?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BIL]

On the JPN & USA NTSC regions of Sega 32X Virtua Racing port, what's the framerate running at?

I've seen it quoted as 30fps, but that seems a little high to me. Playing a JP setup, it's undoubtedly much smoother and higher-polycount than the struggling MD version, but could still use improvement - blasting a straight line through the City's deadly 90 degree corners while racing a full pack never feels quite 30fps safe to me. More than playable, though.

Fantastic game in any case, worth the hassle of a 32X easily. The translation of analogue handling to digital pad is amazing. Pushing the F1 to the brink of spinout before straightening out and flooring it on the last turns of Bay Bridge is particularly magical, and the Stock powerslides like a dream. Getting all the singleplayer trophies is a heroic undertaking. I just wish it had a true reverse course option (you only get mirrored tracks).

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Thanks for your detailed & informative insights of the 32X version of Virtua Racing, BIL. Will pick up a Sega 32X add-on along with an obligatory cart of VR down the road.

Yep, the MD VR port offers mirrored courses as well. Plus, if you manage to reach the goal within the given time limit, you can gain access to a cool 5th "top-down" viewpoint during the replay mode (which isn't mentioned in the Japanese MD VR's manual). Cool easter egg nonetheless.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BrianC]

I recently picked up a complete Steel Talons for dirt cheap. The frame rate makes Super Thunder Blade seem like the smoothest game on the system. Too bad it didn't use a special chip like Virtua Racing.

[stryc9]

I wonder how much stuff like Steel Talons and Hard/Race Drivin' would benefit from an overclocked Genesis?

I guess you would all have seen demos of overclocked Sonic (no slowdown when losing a ton of rings). Herzog would be another candidate.

I know over on Sega 16 there is someone who OC Starfox.

[BIL]

Might be the same person, but there's a Super FX overclock project here too. Pretty impressive.

I can hardly bear to watch polygonal stuff on the MD... the chip-assisted VR is my limit. Even that makes me want to run screaming for something by Treasure or Konami, haha.

[null1024]

As much as Steel Talons and Hard Drivin run like shit, really early 3D on consoles always impressed me just for having the balls for trying it.

And Kawasaki Superbike Challenge is mightly impressive for a polygon racer on a stock Genesis. The road is a normal rastereffect, but all the scenery is polygonal [and apparently the enemy racers are flat vectors].
Cheats a little, but even Saturn games cheat a bit with the ground [using VDP2 mode 7ish layers].

VR on the MD is a mighty impressive display, extremely solid in framerate [it keeps a consistent 15 IIRC, unlike most SuperFX games that drop to single digits] and with a higher polycount than any of the SuperFX games. It's a real shame more SVP stuff got stuffed in favor of 32X games [since the 32X was an interesting idea doomed to fail [because it's an addon, and it was expensive], and not just to its atrocious timing].

[louisg]

As much as Steel Talons and Hard Drivin run like shit, really early 3D on consoles always impressed me just for having the balls for trying it.

And Kawasaki Superbike Challenge is mightly impressive for a polygon racer on a stock Genesis. The road is a normal rastereffect, but all the scenery is polygonal [and apparently the enemy racers are flat vectors].
Cheats a little, but even Saturn games cheat a bit with the ground [using VDP2 mode 7ish layers].

VR on the MD is a mighty impressive display, extremely solid in framerate [it keeps a consistent 15 IIRC, unlike most SuperFX games that drop to single digits] and with a higher polycount than any of the SuperFX games. It's a real shame more SVP stuff got stuffed in favor of 32X games [since the 32X was an interesting idea doomed to fail [because it's an addon, and it was expensive], and not just to its atrocious timing].

Yeah, the MD was a decent platform for early 3d: 32-bit instructions, fast enough clock. Polygon graphics were *everywhere* on similarly-clocked home computers like the Amiga, PC or Atari ST. I have fond memories of playing Indy 500: The Simulation and Falcon. Even machines like the older C64 had some respectable 3d (check out Stunt Car Racer). There are other impressive 3d engines, too, such as the Lucasarts fractal engine.

So, I think doing 3d on the Genesis was maybe more of a good fit than you'd think. I remember there was even a Vette port planned, but ended up being scrapped.

The Kawasaki Superbike Challenge/Domark F1/Vroom engine is spectacular. I remember reading it was a few years in development, with the initial target being the Atari ST.

Yep, I also wish there had been more SVP games. And want to see something awesome, on the subject of one-hit in-cart accelerators? Look up the chip used in Pitfall 2 on the Atari 2600. It was made to bring the Atari up to the quality of home computers, and was planned to be used in more than one game. Sad.

(end of super-rambling post )

[BIL]

And Kawasaki Superbike Challenge is mightly impressive for a polygon racer on a stock Genesis. The road is a normal rastereffect, but all the scenery is polygonal [and apparently the enemy racers are flat vectors].
Cheats a little, but even Saturn games cheat a bit with the ground [using VDP2 mode 7ish layers].

Indeed, very impressive. Actually getting some sensation of speed and forward momentum, there. With Virtua Racing I only ever feel like I'm watching a slideshow.

Yep, I also wish there had been more SVP games. And want to see something awesome, on the subject of one-hit in-cart accelerators? Look up the chip used in Pitfall 2 on the Atari 2600. It was made to bring the Atari up to the quality of home computers, and was planned to be used in more than one game. Sad.

(end of super-rambling post )

FWIW, I love this stuff.

[BrianC]

Yep, I also wish there had been more SVP games. And want to see something awesome, on the subject of one-hit in-cart accelerators? Look up the chip used in Pitfall 2 on the Atari 2600. It was made to bring the Atari up to the quality of home computers, and was planned to be used in more than one game. Sad.

The good news is that Atari 2600 homebrewers have started making games based on an enhanced version of the chip thanks to the harmony cart/melody board. Space Rocks is one of the games that uses it, a more advanced port of Asteroids. Other games that use it are Epic Adventure, Evil Magician Returns II, a port of Star Castle, different from the one that was only available on kickstarter, Cave In, and the WIP Frantic (a new version of Berzerk with a mode based on Frenzy). This WIP looks promising, as well.

At least there were other companies using special chips and extra RAM on the 2600. The supercharger games were very impressive. One of the developers made Impossible Mission for Epyx.

[BIL]

Periodic bout of Hard Corps fever.



Much as in its direct sequel Shin Contra, it's so fun figuring out ways to wriggle free of the boss pattern straitjackets for spectacularly risky speedkills. Working on no-missing the Rocket route with Sheena at maximum audacity. Almost got a run I was happy with recorded, but I chickened out by killing last boss Phimosis Lad with the tracking laser from a distance instead of getting under it and machinegunning through its foul spew.

Also been trying to like El Viento, being down for some more magic-themed running and gunning after Kujaku Ou 2, Jewel Master and Alisia Dragoon. But wow... I've played few sidescrolling action games with such satisfying action yet such appalling lack of polish. Goes for both its presentation (the potentially interesting 1920s US setting is a total fucking disaster) and the way the game will occasionally drop all professionalism for bouts of crippling slowdown and hideous, damage-sponging clunkiness. How are you supposed to do the stage 4 surfing bit without looking like a total asshole? Even a TAS holds no answers. The Eurotastic way a lack of hitstun and recovery period is not problematic but borderline irrelevant thanks to the huge lifebar doesn't endear, either.

Still, game does feel pretty good, vague as that sounds. Clocking stuff with the boomerangs and dashing after the wind blast spell as it mows down all in its wake is undeniably addictive. The obscenely chunky Wolfteam explosionpixels are charming, too. Just a shame this production apparently wasn't taken as seriously as the aforementioned three wizard-and-guns.

[Skykid]

I've been playing Slap Fight MD. God tier Toaplan.

[BIL]

In case it's news, try out TOAPLAN MODE and it will become even Godder Tier! ^_~ It makes the shield time out authentically (more tension, less beeping) and also enables Loop Select for when you want Raiden II-fast bullets ASAP.

The arcade mode alone is great, but the MD version feels like the console-exclusive Toaplan shooter they never got to make. Typhoon Bomber is a great expansion of the original's almost Compile-esque invincibility surfing, and it's endlessly gratifying to build up a massive warbird before detonating it and everything onscreen in a sea of flames. Distinctly worth it.

[Edmond Dantes]

Periodic bout of Hard Corps fever.

Stupid question time: is Brownie a male or a female? I thought he was male but apparently a later game claims Brownie is a she?

(FWIW, I think it would be cooler if Brownie was a she)

[CIT]

I always thought Brownie was robot, lol.

[BIL]

The US manual refers to Brownie as a "he" and says everybody loves his warm chillaxing personality, presumably he's a bit like a pot brownie that can double jump.

I found over the weekend, the JP version is so much better for playing this game with friends. You can still go for intense no-miss runs, since the game is 1:1 identical to the US aside from the hitpoints and kanji, but you can also play with a beginner and not have them run out of lives every couple minutes. Also, the JP version's level select cheat is really handy for playing later levels and trying out wacky things that you might not risk at the end of a twenty minute run.

Minor point of interest: I noticed that while in the US version all characters read the same lines, they clearly have unique lines in the JP ver. Interesting how Konami really pushed the characterisation with this game (along with getting Yasuomi Umetsu to illlustrate the box + manual). I wonder if they had further plans for anime/manga, etc. I also dig how this game adds its own cyberpunkish, slightly tongue-in-cheek style instead of simply mimicking Aliens/Predator like the earlier ones. Do wish there was a Vampire Killer-style intermission skip though.

[BrianC]

Stupid question time: is Brownie a male or a female? I thought he was male but apparently a later game claims Brownie is a she?

(FWIW, I think it would be cooler if Brownie was a she)

The Brownie in Contra Rebirth is female, but not the same Brownie as in Hard Corps (which is male).

[Skykid]

Pushed through almost to loop 3 today. Must Slap harder.

In case it's news, try out TOAPLAN MODE and it will become even Godder Tier! ^_~ It makes the shield time out authentically (more tension, less beeping) and also enables Loop Select for when you want Raiden II-fast bullets ASAP.

Since MD is a home version only, I'm happy to play it with shield on a 3 hit default, but for the arcade one I revert to this handy code for authenticity. The beeping isn't as overpowering to me as the side shot!

[BIL]

Getting close to securing my MD shooter library, the most stirring Engrish I've seen in recent times came courtesy of Crying aka Bio Hazard Battle's JP boxart.

Avalon...
The planet of dreams has awoken to terror.
We must undo the mistakes we've made.
With the wonderous bioships we sail!
We sail to save Avalon...



Story succinctly expressed by boxart = good. Having not played it before, from the visuals I'd assumed this was Western-developed. Maybe it's my affinity for Ecco's brand of MD eco-horror talking. Seems to be JP-developed from the staff roll, though.

Very competent shooter. Controls and collision are tight, it has a strong quasi-Irem feel with the immense charge shot, reverse-orbital Option and range of cool lasers, and even on Normal it develops dense levels early on that'll keep you running scared without good tactics. I'm mainly using the upper-right ship, and liking the balance of swarming pests and huge targets demanding constant alternating of the red homing laser and charged shots. Cool how in addition to your Option cancelling bullets, a charged shot's impact explosions will do the same, adding a counter-offensive aspect (particularly with more charge yielding more explosions).

OST really stands out. I don't find the game all that visually engaging, but the soundtrack is galvanising at times and nightmarish at others, putting the mood over the top.

[Drachenherz]

Boy, I am so stoked... Got a PAL Megadrive Model 1 plus 4 Game (Revenge of Shinobi, Landstalker, Castle of Illusion and SoRII coming my way, with an RGB-scart stereo cable and an everdrive md allready sitting here on my table, waiting to be used.

In preparation for the everdrive, I "procured" a complete goodgen and a no-intro romset for backup purposes and organized the roms to suit my needs on the everdrive.

Thanks to this thread, I can't wait for the megadrive to arrive, allowing me to visit my childhood/teenager days, and also to enjoy so many games (especially shmups!) for the very first time on real hardware.

Yes, I actually do feel a little bit bad about it - but the temptation was so huge, I couldn't resist...

[BIL]

Yes, I actually do feel a little bit bad about it - but the temptation was so huge, I couldn't resist...

I've considered it many times myself. Ultimately it's the ROM running on real hardware that matters to me... the physical library aspect is just geek porn. Geek porn I refuse to go without! It's my vice.

If cartridges were as prone to failure as some other older storage media, I'd have no problem going this route myself.

edit: I am so dreadfully amused that in localising Crying, Avalon became AVARON. Reminds me of the Kali / CURLY fiasco from Aria of Sorrow.

[Drachenherz]

Yeah, the library aspect isn't so important for me, that's why I hand-picked the roms I want to have on the card and limited myself just to the stuff I actually want to try and play. Like most games mentioned in this thread. And I guess, I'll still buy some copies of the games I truly want to sink my teeth in.