Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[pedroTFP]

Perhaps I am expecting too much from a 2730/2530 though. I should mention that when I bought this I also threw in a 2130 from the same seller in the bargain and to my eyes the picture quality on it is in the same ballpark.

Has anyone had the chance of viewing an L2 and 2X30 in similar condition side by side to compare their image quality? Perhaps TVL being close on paper is not an accurate representation of how close the image quality on the two can be expected to be and the 2X30 series is just a step down from the L2 series.

I know the L2 has superior deflection circuits that lend themselves to better geometry overall, perhaps this also means the image quality is sharper overall with more defined scanlines.

I've a couple of very good 20" L2MD (2003) and a 2730QM (very low hours and recently served by a professional) but they're in storage.
IIRC the L2 is a little sharper but I suspect the smaller size always tricks the eye a little on that side. The L2 has a better geometry overall too, especially on corners.

Still, I prefer the 2730, probably because I value screen size more, all things considered. ^^'
Now I'm rebuilding my game room to host a few cabs but after that, maybe end of june, I get the PVMs out of storage and I can do a little bit of comparison, if anyone is interested.

[kamiboy]

I'd certainly be interested. I really do not want to take my 2X30's apart and attempt to service them unless I am confident that there is something to be gained from it. Geometry being better on the later PVM models is to be expected, and the geometry on my 2X30's are so and so. But I am more interested in TVL performance, and the potential to improve it on my 2X30's, as I feel they are so and so on that front as well, and in that regards I was kind of expecting a bit more. But I am not sure if I am expecting too much, or my sets just need new caps.

Of course there is also the deeper end of the TVL pool as covered by the increasing TVL on TV set thread here on the forums. Perhaps one day the work being done there will have matured to a degree where I might consider applying it to my sets, bringing their TVL performance up to par with higher end SONY sets.

[pedroTFP]

Ok, it's a deal then. (-:
I've pretty much any hardware to test, so if anyone want to ask something in particular, or give me specific directions about what to test, I'll gladly try to comply.

[kamiboy]

Last weekend I attended a private retro gaming gathering that is hosted by a friend twice or so yearly. He has a big house out in the middle of nowhere and has a pretty sick large collection of systems an accompanying screens. I didn't do a count, buy I reckon he had at least 20 CRTs, and maybe 5-10 flatpanels, all with systems hooked up, running at the same time for people to walks around and amuse themselves with. Systems ran the gamut of consoles, 8bit all the way up to current generation systems and some commodore stuff as well. He even had the Nuon and several handhelds, rare ones too like Neo Geo Pocket and Swan, plus, a Virtual Boy! The focus was of course on the retro stuff and this was what got the most attention, it is basically retro gamer heaven whenever he chooses to do one of these, bless the man.

Everything was setup with flascarts, hdd solutions and what have you, so you basically have access to the entire library of games for any given system. This is the third year I am attending this event, and while his CRTs spans everything from large Bang & Olufsen TVs (the lions share of screens actually) to SONY PVMs and Toshiba consumer sets, there is one particular set that keeps drawing my attention.

Disclosure: The images look like hot garbage compared to seeing this beauty in person. I wasn't even trying to take pictures of the image quality, I took photos of a game I completed, as is my way.



And I am not alone, I have caught many of the other guys attending the event over the years remark how good the picture on this tiny set looks. It is simply phenomenal, I have everything from BVM's, 90's/2000's PVM's B&O TVs and Retrotink 4K at home, but this little fella, this one somehow takes the cake.

I cannot quite put my finger on why though, when you look closely at the picture there aren't even any visible gaps between the scanlines, the image looks solid but for the subpixel structure, up close it looks more like na LCD than a CRT, but when you move back the image is just so bright, vibrant, sharp and overall pleasing to the eye.



Maybe it is the small size, I am not sure how big it is actually, you can see the top of a famicom cartridge at the bottom of the photo for reference.

It bears no model number on the front, and I forgot to have a look at the back to see, a few google searches didn't help either. I reckon it must be somewhere from 9-14" inches in size, a European model with RGB SCART on the back. Prolly at some time between late 90's to mid 2000's?

Anywaste, in conclusion, if you ever get the chance to acquire this little gem, don't let the small screen and its consumer nature deter you, it just happens to host the most pleasing CRT image these eyes have ever been witness to. I haven't really seen any other small SONY trinitron sets to compare it with, so I do not if this is par for the course or not, but I have a feeling that this little unit has some special SONY magic that might be a bit unique. Because I have seen larger SONY consumer sets and they do not hold a candle.

[SuperSpongo]

This is a Sony KV-14LM1E with the latest 60Hz chassis, the FE-2.
There's also the KV-14LT1E with a slightly different shell. I think one of them had SVideo over the other, both support Scart RGB.

Because of its small size, there are no warping issues that plague the bigger 29 inch flatscreen models.

[kamiboy]

Are there bigger screen versions of this TV with the same chassis and tube? I wonder how a potential 20" version will look next to this smaller model.

[SuperSpongo]

There are 20 Inch versions with a similar flat tube, yes.
Namely the KV-21FX30E and KV-21LS30E.

[spmbx]

Personally i'm hoping the hype stays with BVM/PVM and everyone keeps blowing 500-1000eur on those so i can keep picking these consumer trinitrons up for peanuts.
Although even for these we're approaching the time where most people have cleaned out their spare bedrooms and studyrooms so they are starting to become more rare and start getting advertised as "retro gaming tv" with accompanying pricetag. (which still is a lot less than broadcast-realm but more than i want to spend on)

[SuperSpongo]

True, unfortunately. Never thought us Europeans would see the day But then again, we had plenty of time and people seriously interested in the hobby picked up a couple of sets when picking was good.

[kamiboy]

In my part of the world (DK) we are many years past quality consumer CRTs like this being possible to find, regardless of price. The major exceptions are anything by B&O, as those are still relatively easy to acquire for low prices, but at some point that well too will run dry. Actually I think it would be much easier to find a PVM or BVM than a quality Japanese consumer CRT over here. The PVM/BVM units had enough utility and were expensive enough for people in neighbouring countries to have hung on to them for quite a while longer than consumer CRTs.

Germany is a good place to get professional CRTs, but good luck if you are looking for that particular SONY.

[SuperSpongo]

I've been watching the German market closely for about 5 years. The 14 inch FE-2s don't pop up that often and if they do, they oftentimes are ridiculously priced. Maybe someone somewhere already recomended that particular model for home computers or something.

[xeos]

This is a Sony KV-14LM1E with the latest 60Hz chassis, the FE-2.
There's also the KV-14LT1E with a slightly different shell. I think one of them had SVideo over the other, both support Scart RGB.

Because of its small size, there are no warping issues that plague the bigger 29 inch flatscreen models.

is it possible that part of what makes it look good is also it's small image size is better suited to 240p content? I love 27" CRTs for 480p/i content but nobody needs "pixels" that big for 240p.

[SuperSpongo]

I think it's a couple of reasons.
First, this was the last generation of Sony tubes, so it incorporates all the advances in technology that they made. The flat tubes look good, but have common disadvantages like bad linearity and corner convergence/focus. But those problems are getting more apparent with size and are unnoticable on small tubes (at least the ones I've seen).

[kamiboy]

While size might be a factor, what strikes most people most are the colours and vibrancy of the image. Perhaps SONY at this generation was using tubes with some tweaks that led to the observed effects. I am sure chassis had a hand in it as well, the geometry looked good, not that I was taking special note of that. The image quality is just very, very pleasing and natural to the eyes. I would be interested to see my PVM 14L2 next to it since that is to my eyes the best image quality I’ve seen on a professional CRT.