GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

A place where you can chat about anything that isn't to do with games!
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6245
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:Trending on Facebook of all places: Where were you when butt-slap was kill?

relevant:
http://ti.me/1v9eUkD
Despite my staunch anti-censorship views, I have a kind of conservative taste in entertainment. Well, at least when it comes to sexual stuff (typical American).

But if they did this, due to fear of SJW grief, that sucks. The way they took it out sucks too. If they put in a new animation, it would have been better. It reminds me of Elvis' appearance on Ed Sullivan.
It's just so obvious, that it's been censored.

It's going to really stand out. "Hey, you know what's supposed to be here, right? You can even hear the slap!"
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 14148
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by BulletMagnet »

If they were really that afraid of "SJW" backlash they would have overhauled Mika to a much greater extent than that; who are they supposed to think they're placating with a slight camera shift?
User avatar
Strider77
Posts: 4732
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:01 am

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Strider77 »

Racist against those who butt-slap.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
User avatar
Sly Cherry Chunks
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Colin's Bargain Basement. Everything must go.

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

BulletMagnet wrote:If they were really that afraid of "SJW" backlash they would have overhauled Mika to a much greater extent than that; who are they supposed to think they're placating with a slight camera shift?
It would make more sense if they never designed her that way, overhauling her is probably cost-prohibitive and too much work. This was a quick fix.

No, they put her trailer out and went on Kotaku and Twitter for the reaction. This self-censoring is the direct result. Curtain-twitchers won.
The biggest unanswered question is where is the money? [1CCS]
User avatar
system11
Posts: 6290
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:17 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by system11 »

I wish I was a game designer or publisher with some great new games coming, just so I could tell Kotaku I wasn't interested in talking to them.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 14148
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by BulletMagnet »

If the no-fun-allowed crowd is truly as incorrigible as it's frequently made out to be then there's no way such a small adjustment would make a difference to them...then again, I frankly don't recall much "controversy" arising over Mika even when she was first revealed (which begs the question, if Capcom is really that sensitive to this sort of thing, why would they have seemingly ignored such impulses completely until this late in the process?), aside from the usual smattering of snickering and eye-rolling that was quickly moved on from until the self-appointed Guardians Against Censorship started making noise about this development (which, frankly, I doubt too many others would have even bothered to notice).

I guess I can't help but roll my own eyes at how quickly these things can transition from "Look! Unmistakable, outright, brazen censorship! The only thing that ever satisfies the SJWs! Soon all games will be like this!" to "Look! An incredibly minor tweak! Exactly the sort of creeping advancement that they hope you'll gradually come to accept!" No matter where you look, some insidious fem-blogger somewhere must have a hand in it. "Dammit...first Tecmo...and now they got to Ono-san too! Where does it end?!"
User avatar
Durandal
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Durandal »

It's a rather unfortunate sideeffect that once such cases of censorship become more frequent and the outcry of those wishing said censorship didn't happen starts feeling more repetitive and ridiculous, people tend to pay less attention as people keep complaining but nothing gets done.
Kind of like most how most people feel when yet another mass shooting happens. The same wave of criticism about having to do something, but rarely anything (noticeable) gets done.
I wish things like this didn't get played down, it just results in this apathetic stance many people seem to have for social issues, unless it directly affects them in some way.

Nonetheless, this sudden wave of Japanese games being censored in some way is indeed worrying. It didn't used to be this bad in the 00's. Games in the 90's were censored because someone had to think of the children. Now they are being censored because it could offend someone. There's a clear difference between changing something because the artist liked it more, because thought other audiences might like it more this way (like how Brother Nier was changed to Papa Nier), and simply changing to avoid outrage (DoA, Fatal Frame, SFV). And that is why people are upset, because art is being changed because it makes someone upset, and this blatant reasoning for censoring art is becoming increasingly more acceptable. Maybe I should just say 'cultural appropriation' instead, because games and art being altered to fit our abstract moral standards is exactly what's happening, and 'censorship' is becoming a borderline buzzword at this rate. Art should not be restricted or censored because it is 'gross' or 'morally objectionable'. Is the message of the art in question telling me to become a worse person? No? Then why does it have to be changed?
Xyga wrote:
chum wrote:the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.
Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.
User avatar
Strider77
Posts: 4732
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:01 am

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Strider77 »

I wish I was a game designer or publisher with some great new games coming, just so I could tell Kotaku I wasn't interested in talking to them.
I would probably be more juvenile and add more boobs/physics, butt slapping etc in their review copy.
I guess I can't help but roll my own eyes at how quickly these things can transition from "Look! Unmistakable, outright, brazen censorship! The only thing that ever satisfies the SJWs! Soon all games will be like this!" to "Look! An incredibly minor tweak! Exactly the sort of creeping advancement that they hope you'll gradually come to accept!" No matter where you look, some insidious fem-blogger somewhere must have a hand in it. "Dammit...first Tecmo...and now they got to Ono-san too! Where does it end?!
He said he changed it because "we don’t want to have something in the game that might make someone uncomfortable."

It was done because of OMG THAT MY BE OFFENSIVE!!! syndrome.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6245
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by evil_ash_xero »

BulletMagnet wrote:If they were really that afraid of "SJW" backlash they would have overhauled Mika to a much greater extent than that; who are they supposed to think they're placating with a slight camera shift?

I dunno. However, with the boob enlarger taken out of Xenoblade, DOA XTreme 3 not coming to the West, the sexy outfits taken out of Fatal Frame for Wii U, and now this...I think we have a trend.

I don't particularly care about if my game is missing a boob slider, but censorship sucks. And this will start to take it's toll, if it keeps going this way.
Remember all this nonsense, from the Nintendo/SNES/Genesis days? Well, it's back. 2015!
User avatar
Squire Grooktook
Posts: 5997
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Squire Grooktook »

My biggest complaint about the removal of breast size controls from character creation in Xenoblade X is that I will not be able to make a delicious flat chested heroine.

This is a big deal to me.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 14148
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by BulletMagnet »

The thing is, in the cases being discussed at the moment I just don't see any real evidence that non-gaming "reactionaries" are behind any of the decisions in question that the developers/localizers have made: for starters, most of the high-profile cases of feminists complaining about video games (that I'm aware of, at any rate) have tended to focus on the medium's history as a whole (i.e Peach always being helplessly kidnapped, etc.) as opposed to targeting any particular pending release. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall encountering any tangible "outrage" from the Sarkeesian crowd for Xenoblade, Fatal Frame, SF5, or even DoAX3; the closest thing would be the aforementioned passing eyerolls from the core audience, i.e. the ones the developers actually care about.

Few, if any at all, were affected enough to go the "I'm offended, I won't buy this" route (to be perfectly frank, I've yet to see anything on that end of the spectrum to rival the "no Mai, no buy" embarrassment from KoF12), but they did sometimes make comments along the lines of "nice plot, guys" and the like, which is why we're seeing camera angle tweaks as opposed to character design overhauls. These, let's be serious here, largely meaningless changes were not made for the hard-core feminists; I honestly doubt most of the series in question are even high-profile enough to rate a blip on their pop culture radar. If anything, they're a reaction to the "seriously, you don't need to pander to me that hard" sensibilities of the people who actually buy and play the games; most of them would have still done so regardless, but as you say, most people also aren't inclined to see every business decision that doesn't cater to their particular interests as abject censorship brought about by an insidious outside invader.

As for "this didn't happen x years ago", I've said it before, and will go blue in the face saying it again, but I'm very secure in putting forth that most of the particularly sexualized Japanese releases of that day and age were simply not picked up for localization at all; "censored" or not, there's no way in heck we're not seeing a lot more of the stuff now than we ever did before, impending Feminist New World Order and all.
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17655
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Skykid »

evil_ash_xero wrote: Remember all this nonsense, from the Nintendo/SNES/Genesis days? Well, it's back. 2015!

I actually think it's more serious and long term than that. Some of that nonsense back in the dayz was Nintendo's purposeful controversy used to curry favour with parents to generate sales, the rest were some hotheads in government trying to make a name for themselves. Games in question weren't really stopped from being released in their original formats, just not on Nintendo consoles.

It blew over pretty fast.

In terms of censorship this is much more extreme - there will never be an English language version of certain RPGs that aren't cut. That's pretty messed up.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6245
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by evil_ash_xero »

BulletMagnet wrote:The thing is, in the cases being discussed at the moment I just don't see any real evidence that non-gaming "reactionaries" are behind any of the decisions in question that the developers/localizers have made: for starters, most of the high-profile cases of feminists complaining about video games (that I'm aware of, at any rate) have tended to focus on the medium's history as a whole (i.e Peach always being helplessly kidnapped, etc.) as opposed to targeting any particular pending release. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall encountering any tangible "outrage" from the Sarkeesian crowd for Xenoblade, Fatal Frame, SF5, or even DoAX3; the closest thing would be the aforementioned passing eyerolls from the core audience, i.e. the ones the developers actually care about.

Few, if any at all, were affected enough to go the "I'm offended, I won't buy this" route (to be perfectly frank, I've yet to see anything on that end of the spectrum to rival the "no Mai, no buy" embarrassment from KoF12), but they did sometimes make comments along the lines of "nice plot, guys" and the like, which is why we're seeing camera angle tweaks as opposed to character design overhauls. These, let's be serious here, largely meaningless changes were not made for the hard-core feminists; I honestly doubt most of the series in question are even high-profile enough to rate a blip on their pop culture radar. If anything, they're a reaction to the "seriously, you don't need to pander to me that hard" sensibilities of the people who actually buy and play the games; most of them would have still done so regardless, but as you say, most people also aren't inclined to see every business decision that doesn't cater to their particular interests as abject censorship brought about by an insidious outside invader.

As for "this didn't happen x years ago", I've said it before, and will go blue in the face saying it again, but I'm very secure in putting forth that most of the particularly sexualized Japanese releases of that day and age were simply not picked up for localization at all; "censored" or not, there's no way in heck we're not seeing a lot more of the stuff now than we ever did before, impending Feminist New World Order and all.

Yeah, but the companies are flat out saying it's because of not "offending" people, in the West. Also, Tecmo specifically said, that it was because of all the hoopla about sexism (or how women are potrayed) over here.

A while back, when this kind of junk started, there was a lot of talk about how nothing was going to be changed...everything was going to remain the same. Yadda yadda yadda. But they are changing. And the people responsible, are like "hey, we didn't do it".
I'm actually a bit surprised, as I didn't think Japan gave a damn. I guess they don't give a damn, to a degree. But when focusing on international sales, they are taking this into account.

I mean, this has been in games media, to a ridiculous amount, for the last couple of years. It's going to have an effect.
And of course, I don't think this has anything to do with gamers. It's game journalists, and Twitter lynch mobs that are causing this.

Take the changing of the Batgirl cover. Do you think that DC actually thought their customers would care? No...it was bad press, due to media, and Twitter nonsense.

That's the BIG problem, I have with the SJW movement in games. It's not even gamers who want this. It's a small number of people, who have way too much input.

I would like to be wrong, and you to be right. But from someone who's been following this, for a while now...it makes total sense, and seems like the logical progression, honestly.

I guess it just matters if you think it's OK, or not. I don't, even though I have conservative tastes.
User avatar
Opus131
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Opus131 »

Political correctness has already infected most of western society, and it was only bound to happen that it was going to catch up with video games as well. Anybody who thinks those people have no power or influence is deluded. Hell, we are at a point now where even imaginary slights or grievances are automatically taken seriously by our society. Just look at what is happening in our universities.
User avatar
Teufel_in_Blau
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Teufel_in_Blau »

BulletMagnet wrote: As for "this didn't happen x years ago", I've said it before, and will go blue in the face saying it again, but I'm very secure in putting forth that most of the particularly sexualized Japanese releases of that day and age were simply not picked up for localization at all; "censored" or not, there's no way in heck we're not seeing a lot more of the stuff now than we ever did before, impending Feminist New World Order and all.
We don't need to look at Japan to see the change. I mean, honestly, quality aside, can you imagine a western publisher financing a game like "BMX XXX" or "Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude" for the consoles these days?
GaijinPunch wrote:I don't have 40 minutes to do anything other than fist myself these days.
User avatar
Mischief Maker
Posts: 4803
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:44 am

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Mischief Maker »

Yeah, boo hoo for BMX XXX, but if you want an actual GOOD game with T&A, Giants: Citizen Kabuto is free on GOG for the next 24 hours!

You can remove the censorship by deleting the file arpfix.gzp. Goddamn time-traveling SJWs!

Be sure to pick up the 1.5 fan patch as well!
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17655
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Skykid »

No matter what happens. No matter what.

I will never forgive SJWs and third wave Feminists for what they did to that scientist chap over his shirt. He landed a probe on a fucking comet, and they publicly attacked him on live TV, during his commendation, for wearing a shirt with cartoon chicks on it. And made him cry.

That is the absolute loftiest height of pig ignorance. Declaration of war business right there.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6245
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Skykid wrote:No matter what happens. No matter what.

I will never forgive SJWs and third wave Feminists for what they did to that scientist chap over his shirt. He landed a probe on a fucking comet, and they publicly attacked him on live TV, during his commendation, for wearing a shirt with cartoon chicks on it. And made him cry.

That is the absolute loftiest height of pig ignorance. Declaration of war business right there.
As bad as that was, Tim Hunt got it worse.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 14148
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by BulletMagnet »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Yeah, but the companies are flat out saying it's because of not "offending" people, in the West. Also, Tecmo specifically said, that it was because of all the hoopla about sexism (or how women are potrayed) over here.
In Tecmo's case they followed up that initial statement by saying it was the opinion of the individual that posted it, and not the company as a whole - whether that's true we can never know for sure, I suppose, but especially considering the very piecemeal nature of most of the localization adjustments being discussed here (and I'm still very hesitant to chalk up T-K's non-localization to anything but sales figures or other purely economic concerns) I'm far more inclined to believe that the motivation would be "the fans scoffed at the fan service so we scaled it back a bit" as opposed to "Non-gaming SJWs know we exist even when a lot of gamers don't".
We don't need to look at Japan to see the change. I mean, honestly, quality aside, can you imagine a western publisher financing a game like "BMX XXX" or "Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude" for the consoles these days?
That statement contains quite a few qualifiers:

1) The discussion has now been shifted from Japan to the West, when the main gripe up until now has been "Japan has remained pure (i.e. still has booth babes at its conventions) in the face of encroaching Western ninnies, but now even they're corrupted!" I wouldn't even particularly agree on that point (sure, Japan tends to openly embrace chauvinism more than its Western counterparts, but I'd say that comes with at least as many cultural downsides as upsides), but I'll get a bit more into that below...

2) "Quality aside" is a big one - if memory serves, both the games you mentioned (along with several others like them from the era) were critically panned even on purely technical merits. Even so, in Larry's case more recently the series received both another sequel ("Box Office Bust", was it?) and a remake of the original game - and neither of them were particularly well-received either, and not because of their subject matter. And in terms of "damn the reviews, release more boobs" Japan is trucking along even faster than we are, especially considering...

3) Your post above ties things down to home consoles, which still see some pretty randy stuff as it is (the Witcher games come most immediately to mind, or GTA's strip clubs and whatnot, not to mention the aforementioned Onechanbara/Senran Kagura/etc. localizations...even on Nintendo systems, no less), but the resurgence in PC gaming in recent years has not only gotten us a slew of outright pornographic imports (most of which are available uncensored, or can be patched as such on Steam) but some home-grown stuff too, a la Hunie Pop or Seduce Me. And that's before you even get into the "PG-13" material that seems to be the main focus here (heck, even previously-"censored" titles like Monster Monpiece are now coming to PC with cut content restored).

Long story short, in the face of all this I just can't get myself all that worked up when one of Bravely Default's stumpy characters shows a bit less skin on this side of the Pacific. Is it silly, and largely meaningless? Sure. Should it be mocked? Absolutely. Is it a sign of the end of free expression? Only if you take a blinkered, conspiratorial view of the parts of the industry that are no longer marketing specifically to your personal id, and ignore the numerous segments that either haven't changed or even moved in the completely opposite direction.
User avatar
Durandal
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Durandal »

BulletMagnet wrote:Is it a sign of the end of free expression? Only if you take a blinkered, conspiratorial view of the parts of the industry that are no longer marketing specifically to your personal id, and ignore the numerous segments that either haven't changed or even moved in the completely opposite direction.
Most of it has to do with the PC meme sweeping college campi and social networks like Tumblr, alot of people working in localization teams coincidentally being PC as well, and said games being altered to become more PC-friendly. The keyword here being PC. The same thing is happening to comic books, tech communities, and tabletop games. Many people are concerned that fiction will constantly get altered to appease the PC crowd, instead of being published in their original form with no censorship because of Twitter outrage. Many people are concerned because outrages calling for the creators to censor or alter their works because it is 'offensive', are becoming increasingly more common and accepted. Many people are concerned, because others are starting to accept 'a little bit of censorship'.

It does not mean the end of free expression, but memes like this have a way of spiraling out of control if left unchecked. You might think that I'm using PC as some kind of boogeyman right now, and I really wish it didn't look like that. But where do we draw the line? Despite how conspiratorial it sounds, it is happening, with the push for safe spaces and banning classic historical works on college campi, the trigger warnings and outrage culture on Tumblr and SomethingAwful, and the near-totalitarian moderation on NeoGAF concerning anti-PC posts being extreme examples of what could happen everywhere else. I'm not calling a ban on PC ideology despite how it may seem, but at some point you have to grow a spine and draw the line.
Xyga wrote:
chum wrote:the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.
Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 14148
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by BulletMagnet »

Sure, those types of movements exist, and pretty much everyone - myself very much included - "draws a line" at the demands we'll accept and the ones we won't (discouraging racial slurs in casual conversation is one thing, censoring Huckleberry Finn is another), but again, the mistake I think a lot of people are making is looking at political correctness as an all-consuming monolith with calcifying tentacles everywhere, as opposed to a loud and largely self-contained niche, especially when you pass into the fringes.

I've already spent a good deal of time in my above posts going into parts of gaming that are simply ignoring any "trend" of political correctness, even if others aren't, in varying degrees, and doing just fine, and often with nary a peep of protest from the supposedly all-seeing usual suspects; the same goes for TV, movies, music, education, politics or any other sector you could name (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse), and despite the various calls for social change (again, some more well-intentioned than others) I don't ever see it diminshing to any significant degree. Anyone who wants uncensored, un-PC anything can get it, and at the very least it's no harder to find now than it ever was; the only real difference is that there are some alternatives to the "raw" stuff that didn't exist before, and again, only a very small group is calling for anything beyond that, and very, very few people outside that group are likely to acquiesce to that degree of meddling.

There's no real need to call for "resistance" - it's not as "Braveheart" in nature as some of its proponents would prefer, but it's already happening, it always has been, and it's not going to stop. As such, for my own part I'm content to indulge in whatever content I please, same as ever, and see no end in sight on that front.
User avatar
Mischief Maker
Posts: 4803
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:44 am

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Mischief Maker »

I don't fear the PC thought police, I fear the coming reactionary backlash.
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
User avatar
Opus131
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Opus131 »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
Skykid wrote:No matter what happens. No matter what.

I will never forgive SJWs and third wave Feminists for what they did to that scientist chap over his shirt. He landed a probe on a fucking comet, and they publicly attacked him on live TV, during his commendation, for wearing a shirt with cartoon chicks on it. And made him cry.

That is the absolute loftiest height of pig ignorance. Declaration of war business right there.
As bad as that was, Tim Hunt got it worse.
What about the Canadian guy being dragged to court for three years for the sole crime of disagreeing with a feminist on twitter?
User avatar
Opus131
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Opus131 »

Mischief Maker wrote:I don't fear the PC thought police, I fear the coming reactionary backlash.
Is that because you know the reactionaries are coming for you?
User avatar
ZacharyB
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:16 am
Location: Queens NY
Contact:

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by ZacharyB »

I don't know... Didn't that game Hatred get released? If THAT can get released... everything else censored must be by its creator's will.

They can release the games as they are, if they want. But, they don't want to. Whatever the reason—reputation, money—that decision becomes a part of the will of the game's creator.
User avatar
The Coop
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:57 am
Location: Outskirts of B.F.E.

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by The Coop »

ZacharyB wrote:I don't know... Didn't that game Hatred get released? If THAT can get released... everything else censored must be by its creator's will.

They can release the games as they are, if they want. But, they don't want to. Whatever the reason—reputation, money—that decision becomes a part of the will of the game's creator.
Or the changes come from ideas by the publisher/executives who throw their weight around or bend to bad publicity, and then throw pressure on the game makers to change something.
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6245
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by evil_ash_xero »

ZacharyB wrote:I don't know... Didn't that game Hatred get released? If THAT can get released... everything else censored must be by its creator's will.

They can release the games as they are, if they want. But, they don't want to. Whatever the reason—reputation, money—that decision becomes a part of the will of the game's creator.

Yeah, it did..but at first it was not allowed on Steam. Gabe had to do something, for it to be on there.
There was a bit of an outcry about it (not being allowed, at first, that is).
Opus131 wrote:
What about the Canadian guy being dragged to court for three years for the sole crime of disagreeing with a feminist on twitter?
Yeah, that is pretty awful as well. I can't believe it even go this far. And it could get worse, is the crazy thing!
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17655
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Skykid »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
Skykid wrote:No matter what happens. No matter what.

I will never forgive SJWs and third wave Feminists for what they did to that scientist chap over his shirt. He landed a probe on a fucking comet, and they publicly attacked him on live TV, during his commendation, for wearing a shirt with cartoon chicks on it. And made him cry.

That is the absolute loftiest height of pig ignorance. Declaration of war business right there.
As bad as that was, Tim Hunt got it worse.
Debatable. Wasn't Tim Hunt outwardly sexist and said something about female scientists that his employers couldn't cope with? I'm not too sure on the story.

EDIT: Ok, just read the story, and of course he didn't say anything serious whatsoever. So chalk another victory for ignorance up to the feminists.

But Tim Hunt is 70 something and already a Nobel prize winner, and he resigned because he didn't like the criticism. He wasn't fired.

The comet guy is young and had a groundbreaking achievement to put him on the map, and third wave feminists ruined his life over a shirt.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6245
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Add Idea Factory to the list of companies affected by this crap.

They won't bring certain titles over here, due to them not wanting to censor them.

http://operationrainfall.com/2015/12/04 ... -yamamoto/

Quote:

In recent video game news Team Ninja PR has announced that they are not planning on releasing Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 here due to how the sexualization of women in video games is viewed in the West. Does this issue ever affect your process of choosing which games will be released in the West?

Haru – That’s honestly their decision, but yes, sadly, it has stopped us from localizing certain Compile Heart games. We don’t want to censor anymore because we know that’s not true to the original developed art.

Moe Chronicles was released with English subs in Asia. Will we start seeing English releases in Asia more often?

Haru –That’s actually Compile Heart Asia’s decision, not really ours. We could start seeing that more in Asia, but maybe we should do something to change in the West in the future. Anyway, we just don’t want to censor anymore.
Skykid wrote: Debatable. Wasn't Tim Hunt outwardly sexist and said something about female scientists that his employers couldn't cope with? I'm not too sure on the story.

EDIT: Ok, just read the story, and of course he didn't say anything serious whatsoever. So chalk another victory for ignorance up to the feminists.

But Tim Hunt is 70 something and already a Nobel prize winner, and he resigned because he didn't like the criticism. He wasn't fired.

The comet guy is young and had a groundbreaking achievement to put him on the map, and third wave feminists ruined his life over a shirt.
Well, I think shirt-guy still has a job. He was just pushed, until he broke down on TV. Also, they really messed up, what should have been the best day of his life.

From a recent interview, with Tim Hunt, he said he has basically been blackballed. He said he couldn't get a job, and just did work around the house. I mean, for a guy who is a Nobel prize winner...to think that SJWs have that kind of power, is pretty surprising.
BulletMagnet wrote:
There's no real need to call for "resistance" - it's not as "Braveheart" in nature as some of its proponents would prefer, but it's already happening, it always has been, and it's not going to stop. As such, for my own part I'm content to indulge in whatever content I please, same as ever, and see no end in sight on that front.
I have to disagree. I REALLY think there needs to be a resistance. Because you really can't please, these outrage types. Also, they have basically taken over the gaming journalism community, so a lot of publishers will wrongly think they are the voice of the masses. Which they are not.

However, I am pretty wore out. It seems like censorship is getting worse. Before GG, there really wasn't as much. Just the possibility of it, since journalists were whining constantly. Now, it's actually happening, even though there has been a really strong resistance to it.

When gamers, themselves, do not care about this stuff....there aren't parents groups making a fuss...the religious right has no impact...and you even have a very strong resistance to it, which has even journalists freaked out...you'd think game companies would not censor, due to this small group of people whining.

I don't get it.

I want to just sorta quit this stuff, as I'm an apathetic person, but holy shit...you hear about this daily. They are just relentless. They really think they are doing something really important.

God help us. :|
User avatar
Mischief Maker
Posts: 4803
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:44 am

Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.

Post by Mischief Maker »

Fainting couches for everybody!

The one thing I have to keep pointing out is that colleges are being pushed into this kind of behavior by vague new administrative rules with serious ramifications.

If a college is determined to be condoning sexual harassment by its staff, it is no longer eligible to receive billions in federal funds. A few years ago the Department of Education's definition of sexual harassment changed from a "reasonable person" analysis to "unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature." This unwelcome standard has the unintended consequence of giving colleges no clear idea where the line is drawn, that determination is entirely up to the recipient.

With billions of dollars on the line, they're overcompensating like a motherfucker to avoid any unwelcome speech, which has the consequence of scientists saying or wearing edgy things being hung out to dry. He wasn't crying because those angry tweets hurt his feelings, he was crying because those angry tweets put several of his colleagues' jobs in danger. If we were still on a reasonable person standard, his shirt would have been a non-issue, third-wave feminism or not.

Outrage exhibitionism is nothing new, what do you think The Revolution Will Not be Televised was talking about in 1970? Your enemy here is not SJWs, it's sloppy administrative rule drafting.

But then, that's not as much fun as wringing your hands with stories of blue-haired and pink-jackbooted hordes coming to sweep away all your moe hentai, is it?
Opus131 wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:I don't fear the PC thought police, I fear the coming reactionary backlash.
Is that because you know the reactionaries are coming for you?
Yeah, because I've been so fervently anti-gamergate this entire thread. Anita 4 prez!
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
Post Reply