Another day, another shooting in the US

[Ed Oscuro]

Okay, mister statistics.

[Lord Satori]

85% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[ncc]

Pointing out fallacies like that is just annoying. Being able to act like a condescending dick all the time doesn't automatically make you right.

Pointing out logical flaws in your argument might not make my argument right but it sure as hell makes your argument wrong.

By the way, not all of us who disagree with you aren't American. I'm an American myself.

I never assumed everyone was. I just knew that several of the first people to repy were from other countries, such as the UK, Canada, and Argentina.

No, dumbass. He's saying that Obama HASN'T made that change yet. How many drone strikes he's approved is irrelevant. In fact, bringing it up is kinda destructive to your arguement, both drones and guns are made to kill. Why are you for guns, but against drones?

blackoak was kind enough to handle this one for me.

Really, I'm trying to get someone to say its tough shit if you get shot. I really really am. Because provoking that response just about sums up everything.

Well you're going to have a hard time of it. I'm not going to tell you that because that's not what I believe. Thanks for tipping your hand though.

Sorry, double post. I think it is clear there is a problem. I think whatever your view is, you need to acknowledge there is a problem, and for most human beings that would lead toward contemplating a solution. The problem is that the one offered by the NRA would do absolutely nothing to solve the problem, while the government hasn't really offered any solution at all. The pro-gun folks here should be just as concerned about the problem and looking for solutions instead of freaking out because they are enormously afraid that the only real solution might conflict with their gun rights. In effect, by evading the issues, they are saying 'tough shit'. They'll just wait until people move on.

So tough shit it is.

I already acknowledged that there was a problem waaaaay back at the very beginning. I said that mass shootings were an issue, and that negligently excessive news coverage was part of problem. Another part is something we all agree on. Somewhere along the line, unsettled teens are being driven to commit horrible acts as a way of lashing out, and sometimes those acts involve guns. People are looking for solutions, but you can't be hasty about decisions this important and let emotions blind responsible and informed decision-making. I don't know if you saw it earlier, but I linked a couple of pages where both the NRA and President Obama supported the idea of armed security in schools. Obama even went as far as passing an executive order to encourage it. I don't know why you think this will do nothing, but I can only point to my previous posts where I talk about gun free zones being 'soft' targets for a mentally unhinged person hoping to live out a power fantasy to persuade you to think otherwise.

It is a silly farce. Like I said on like page 1, you'd have to get to a culture that feels like we shouldn't have guns at all. It will take a century or two to get there. Today is not a century or two from now. Let's just be glad the hippies got rid of child labor and be happy about that.

And people wonder why gun owners feel victimized and persecuted while people unironically talk about systematically hazing their culture out of existence over the course of 200 years.

But again, it's still a red herring. There are lots of socialist countries, like... Vermont.... that have slutty gun control laws and have far fewer per capita bloodbaths. Just another religion, really. Opiate of the people, and all that.

I don't know if you were joking when you said this or what, but Vermont's gun control laws are so lax that the term "Vermont carry" is used in referring to the ability to concealed carry a handgun without a permit.

Hard to see how this effort would make schools safer.

It depends very much on how they implement it. The link you gave in your next post implies that there would be strict rules for "training and rules for storing the gun". If teachers need to go through extra checks (written test on gun rules/provide proof they know how to operate the gun they will carry/display a certain degree of proficiency with it), and the gun is required to stay inside a locked safe or whatever then the chances of it being appropriated by a student or the teacher ND'ing it into a student's knee are low. If the law merely exempts teachers from the "no carrying at schools" rule then it might be a bit trickier, but I don't think the law will force teachers to carry, so anyone that's going to will likely take the matter seriously.

Edit: I think I managed to keep it relatively short this time.

[Moniker]

Are you sure they're recommending arming the teachers?

... where have you been for the last ten years?

Living in a state of relatively blissful ignorance, apparently.

[BryanM]

It's just freakin' ridiculous that you only hear the highlights, when we had literally seven of them last year. I remember hearing about the racist Sikh-killer doucher, but only vaguely and by coincidence.

I read this one guy's account recently, that soon after Columbine he was playing Duck Hunt at his school, and he was too good at it and people were suspicious cats. Was a freakin' crazy time.

Whatever makes the best TV and sells the most ad revenue..

85% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Noooo don't denigrate science, it's all we have that makes us human. We'd all be reduced to hipster philosophy tools like Icy otherwise ;_;

unsettled teens

Rampage killers tend to be 30 or above. This seems to be the best time to decide your life is shit and not going to get better, I suppose.

Of course, any person prone to suicide will want to get it over with sooner rather than later.

so lax that the term "Vermont carry" is used in referring to the ability to concealed carry a handgun without a permit.

.......

slut (slt)
a. A person, especially a woman, considered sexually promiscuous.
b. A woman prostitute.

From here you should have inferred a "slutty law" to be synonymous with "loose law".

systematically hazing their culture out of existence over the course of 200 years.

lol wat

Anyway, do you even lift? How far are you in DoDonpachi?

[ncc]

unsettled teens

Rampage killers tend to be 30 or above. This seems to be the best time to decide your life is shit and not going to get better, I suppose.
Of course, any person prone to suicide will want to get it over with sooner rather than later.

All of the logic is age-independent so I don't get your point. Please elaborate.

so lax that the term "Vermont carry" is used in referring to the ability to concealed carry a handgun without a permit.

.......
slut (slt)
a. A person, especially a woman, considered sexually promiscuous.
b. A woman prostitute.
From here you should have inferred a "slutty law" to be synonymous with "loose law".

Sorry, I was a little bit blinded by the assumption that you were trying to make a point against guns instead of for them. My bad.

systematically hazing their culture out of existence over the course of 200 years.

lol wat

I guessed that's what you meant by "you'd have to get to a culture that feels like we shouldn't have guns at all. It will take a century or two to get there.", since the country doesn't seem to be heading in that direction naturally based on the numbers. People like Piers Morgan getting kicked out of Britain and coming here to whine about guns doesn't help either.

Anyway, do you even lift? How far are you in DoDonpachi?

1: Not as often as I would like.
2: I got to stage 5 once. I don't know how to chain.

[Lord Satori]

Sorry, I was a little bit blinded by the assumption that you were trying to make a point against guns instead of for them. My bad.

How is saying vermonts gun regulations aren't strict enough an arguement for guns?

[HenAi]

> school shootings
> ban guns
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre
whoops.

[BryanM]

All of the logic is age-independent so I don't get your point. Please elaborate.

1. Any massive sudden shift in behavior of a population will be caused by environmental factors, not cultural. A single generation isn't going to suddenly shift into being twice as fat or thrice as bloodthirsty (if there really is an upward trend; I do not discount the possibility that Columbine made it into a trendy fad of sorts) just on its own. No one's a special snowflake.

2. Obviously the solution is hot robot wives for everyone.

2a. Or: Hot robot wives for some, comfy soft padded rooms for others.

[ncc]

All of the logic is age-independent so I don't get your point. Please elaborate.

1. Any massive sudden shift in behavior of a population will be caused by environmental factors, not cultural. A single generation isn't going to suddenly shift into being twice as fat or thrice as bloodthirsty (if there really is an upward trend; I do not discount the possibility that Columbine made it into a trendy fad of sorts) just on its own. No one's a special snowflake.

I don't really see anything in this to disagree with, so I guess you're right? We both think that a thing (guns/home situation/vidya games/MTV/whatever) or things in America are having an effect on violent tendencies. We only disagree on the course of action required to fix it.

2. Obviously the solution is hot robot wives for everyone.

I don't see how it could hurt. I'm sure Obamacare had funding for a robot-wife program in it somewhere.

[O. Van Bruce]

> school shootings
> ban guns
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre
whoops.

I'm answering you just out of consideration. Quoting something happens every 10 or so years in a country isn't something that can be compared that something which happens 4 or 5 times a year in another country.

PD: Thank god I have a big bag of M&M's ready for this thread.

[HenAi]

I'm answering you just out of consideration. Quoting something happens every 10 or so years in a country isn't something that can be compared that something which happens 4 or 5 times a year in another country.

The point was, if someone really itches to kill a bunch of people and isn't a total moron, he'll find a way. And there will always be a way, no matter what regulations are put in place for whatever.
Which is not to say you might not somewhat reduce the amount of people killed this way since the ones going "hey let's kill everybody" probably do have a higher tendency of being complete fucking morons.
But anyway, I'll give you a reply to that wall you sent soonish.

[O. Van Bruce]

I'm answering you just out of consideration. Quoting something happens every 10 or so years in a country isn't something that can be compared that something which happens 4 or 5 times a year in another country.

The point was, if someone really itches to kill a bunch of people and isn't a total moron, he'll find a way. And there will always be a way, no matter what regulations are put in place for whatever.
Which is not to say you might not somewhat reduce the amount of people killed this way since the ones going "hey let's kill everybody" probably do have a higher tendency of being complete fucking morons.
But anyway, I'll give you a reply to that wall you sent soonish.

more regulations = more difficult for someone to get the tools needed = more people discouraged.

Imagine if shmups were easy... anyone would become fan of then. It's almost the same analogy in terms of difficulty...

[ncc]

I'm answering you just out of consideration. Quoting something happens every 10 or so years in a country isn't something that can be compared that something which happens 4 or 5 times a year in another country.

The point was, if someone really itches to kill a bunch of people and isn't a total moron, he'll find a way. And there will always be a way, no matter what regulations are put in place for whatever.
Which is not to say you might not somewhat reduce the amount of people killed this way since the ones going "hey let's kill everybody" probably do have a higher tendency of being complete fucking morons.
But anyway, I'll give you a reply to that wall you sent soonish.

more regulations = more difficult for someone to get the tools needed = more people discouraged.

Do you want to ban knives too? Besides, we've already been over the fact that less guns will not reduce crime. There is a minute possibility they may reduce the number of fatalities during large-scale tragedies, but that's not enough to push regulation through on, since evidence suggests that death rates may actually rise if guns were taken out of the hands of responsible citizens. You would merely be shifting the deaths out of schools/malls/theaters and into people's homes and on the street.

We could get the same effect if we passed regulation controlling how the news was allowed to report on the incidents such as disallowing news outlets to use the killers name, report on death tolls (especially in the headline), have "24-hour coverage" revealing every minor facet of the killer's life, and generally putting the killer up on a pedestal where he can be remembered forever as an inspiration to unhinged people and feared as a specter of death for everyone else. Unfortunately that won't fly because it would affect ~the 1st Amendment~, as well as viewer numbers.

Imagine if shmups were easy... anyone would become fan of then. It's almost the same analogy in terms of difficulty...

They already think they're too easy. All you need to do is put in another credit.

[Skykid]

Do you want to ban knives too?

:screams:

[DragonInstall]

I say we ban knives. They have no purpose other than for killing.

[Ed Oscuro]

*hides face*

[ncc]

Do you want to ban knives too?

:screams:

It's incredible how you can so voraciously latch on to a single facetious sentence in a post with two entire paragraphs of serious content. It's called tunnel vision. I'm waiting for you to bring out your flawed 'guns only kill people' argument again.

[Skykid]

Do you want to ban knives too?

:screams:

It's incredible how you can so voraciously latch on to a single facetious sentence in a post with two entire paragraphs of serious content. It's called tunnel vision. I'm waiting for you to bring out your flawed 'guns only kill people' argument again.

Hold fire bucko. You don't get the meaning of the response because you joined the thread in the last two pages, refuse to read it over, and therefore have no idea how irritating it is to hear done and dusted trains of thought regurgitated for the umpteenth time.

[ncc]

Oh alright, so it was already linked. Too bad that doesn't matter because it wasn't a serious argument or point that I ever expected a response to. It was a small quip I included as an opening for everything else I wrote. In fact you responding to it has only made it the focus of this discussion for even longer than it would have been. I'm still waiting for an intelligent response to the rest of the post. I'm starting to think you're hoping it will eventually get buried so you'll never have to deal with it.

Note: I've been here for 4 pages, but considering how little of it you've probably read I don't blame you for the error.

Edit: Actually out of sheer curiosity I went back and read some of the thread. On top of seeing nobody besides Njiska coming at this with any hard facts, I saw as early as page 2 that you yourself claimed the 'knife issue' was closed because 'you need to be a real murderer to use knives'. That's some pretty mind-blowing science right there. Do you have a degree in psychology?

[Skykid]

Do you have a degree in psychology?

Yes.

[ncc]

Do you have a degree in psychology?

Yes.

Congratulations.

[trap15]

Seeing as this thread has become completely pointless and stupid, I think it's time to start spamming image macros and general retardation.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Tools for displacing mass: kindergarden edition!









CAN YOU SPOT THE ODD ONE OUT?

[Lord Satori]

^Best response ever!

[BryanM]

The problem with the internet is it pointed out the van the terrorists use is the same one they use in the "Bang Bus".

That movie will never be the same for me again.

[Ed Oscuro]

Aw, you forgot Maeda's (Parasite Eve's, sorta) forklift. Speaking of which...

[greg]

Dave, I completely agree with you. Irresponsible parenting is just degrading society year after year.

Sorry, I was a little bit blinded by the assumption that you were trying to make a point against guns instead of for them. My bad.

How is saying vermonts gun regulations aren't strict enough an arguement for guns?

Bryan pointed out that Vermont has very lax gun laws, yet has very low gun crimes. The inference here is that a lack of gun laws do not encourage gun crimes, and conversely, strict gun laws do not have an effect on limiting gun crimes.

NCC, since you're new here, somebody should point out that the two main reasons why people come to this forum is to 1. discuss shmups, and 2. bitch about politics and religion. In regards to the latter, if you fall near the conservative side of the fence, it won't matter how strongly you back your arguments with facts and statistics. You won't be changing anyone's minds here. They'll just focus in on the one problem they have with your arguments, and that is the justification for them to disregard any links to valuable information you have provided. They described the purpose of a gun, and you described the function of a gun. It's devolved into a semantic argument now. This forum seems to attract some belligerent sociopaths, but the guys you've been arguing with, even the ones who have not afforded you much courtesy, are otherwise pretty cool guys. And don't mind Skykid... he's just grumpy because he recently broke up with his imaginary girlfriend. Let's just give up on discussing politics and talk about something more important, like video games.

[Skykid]

And don't mind Skykid... he's just grumpy because he recently broke up with his imaginary girlfriend.

Perfect, thanks Greg, now my real girlfriend is going to know about my imaginary affair!

OT: I went real soft on ncc, dude was pushing my buttons post after post. I cut him some slack because he's new here, can string a sentence together and at least put forth a good argument.

Both you and he are still totally wrong, however.

This thread is a placeholder for future gun crime in America, so pls stop with the pic posts chaps - you know it will be relevant again in the very near future.

[BryanM]

In regards to the latter, if you fall near the conservative side of the fence, it won't matter how strongly you back your arguments with facts and statistics.

History has been really unkind to neoliberalism (tying minimum wage to inflation = pedophilia, apparently) and "conservatism". Child labor, slavery (god damn Quakers), people with lady parts, scum that doesn't even own land, voting at 18; it's hard to think of a single instance when the hippies were ever wrong about anything. (In which case, it's extraordinarily likely that life really is about getting intoxicated and having sex all day.)

This entire gun thing is still derpy though. "Math to make liberals feel good about themselves" for the most part.

That infographic is lulzy in some respects; it certainly explains why race seems to be a large factor on how people feel about it. "I just wanna blow my head off when I become a raisin-head. Leave me'aloone."