Shmup stinkers

[Hagane]

Game Paradise as in Game Tengoku? You are crazy.

[Drum]

Xenon 2 being prettier than Dragon Breed and Saint Dragon is an entirely respectable position. It's a good-looking game. I don't know if I'd put them as the best of what arcades had to offer though (they are definitely up there ofc).

[Kollision]

I always found Game Paradise on Saturn to be an overrated lump of shit as well.

Care to elaborate, please?

[Marc]

It's been a decade since I played it, and but my memories are of some horrid digitised-type backgrounds, really weak firepower, and and graphics that felt too big for the play area. I'm sure it was Game Tengoku, and came in a pink over sized box with a replay vid?

[Kollision]

Yes, that's the one.

But perhaps you should try playing it again...
IMO it's a nice little game with traces of Psikyo and a somewhat engaging scoring system.

[CptRansom]

How the fuck is Sine Mora not on this list?

[psoslayer]

How the fuck is Sine Mora not on this list?

Too good graphics.

[Squire Grooktook]

Maybe I just need to buckle down and find all the keys to unlock the rest of the game and the rest of the difficulties, but Soldner X-2 was the most frustratingly unfun time I'v ever had with a shooting game.

Am I alone on this?

Zero Wing was also pretty mind numbing for me when I tried it out.

[Special World]

Soldner X-2 sucks pretty bad, yeah. I think of all the genres, good STGs are least likely to correlate with popular opinion.

[DocHauser]

IGN on Soldner-X 2: "A dazzling 2D shooter with several tricks up its sleeve. There is more meat here than in most arcade shooters, with a health system that makes for longer play sessions and plenty to do beyond the regular story mode. I think Soldner-X 2 will appeal to a broader audience than your usual shoot 'em up."

I only played it once, in 2-player co-op, and cleared it at the first attempt. I guess there are harder difficulty levels as well. It's supposed to be better than the previous game, though, isn't it?

[BPzeBanshee]

I heard Soldner X-2 wasn't actually that terrible, the FIRST one however is a complete waste of time.

And if you think Zero Wing is terrible you haven't seen a terrible shmup yet. Epileptic if you play the arcade version, but not horribad.

[Squire Grooktook]

If Soldner X-2 isn't terrible, I SHUDDER to think what the original must have been like. Because this is the worst shmups I'v ever played. The piss easy difficulty of normal mode was one thing. The fact that you have to complete normal with the true last level to unlock difficulty settings that are actually difficult is another thing. That you have to replay the mind numbingly easy normal mode stages AGAIN AND AGAIN in order to find all the secret keys to unlock the last stage is...

...

I have no words. Fuck you Soldner X-2.

And that's not mentioning the yawn worthy level design, which is basically the worst of a bullet hell shooter combined with the worst of a traditional shooter, composed of almost nothing but empty wide open spaces with enemies that shoot out bullet patterns that feel like they had zero thought put into them whatsoever. Same with the bosses, except they do generic rams from time to time. The bosses even have destructible parts, but unlike in a game like Darius where you can destroy them in any order for added strategy, the game lets you only attack one piece at a time, squandering that potential.

What else? Generic techno soundtrack. Power up system sucks. The ship is a little too long and makes it hard as fuck to tell where your hitbox (also a little too big for the type of game it wants to be) actually is inside it. Controls feel slippery too.

I have no idea why some people (including my friend) like this game. Is it the scoring system? Are the harder difficulties really that good? I just don't understand.


Zero Wing isn't so bad, but I found the level design really slow and boring. There were times where I felt like screaming at the game "SCROLL FASTER THIS IS REALLY FUCKING BORING". Only thing it has going for it is the enemy capture system. Not the worst shooter I'v played (see above), but it was still pretty not fun.

[Special World]

I don't think Soldner X-2 is really horrible, but it is one of the sloppiest games I've ever played. There's really very little draw to it, and it doesn't feel thought through at all. The chaining system is terrible, the bosses are boring, and there's no level design at all. I guess it's really just a case that any non-good shooter isn't really "awful" to me, just completely uninteresting. Like, a shooter is either good or great or I just don't care.

With one exception. The shooter segments in Shadows of the Damned are absolutely terrible and actually almost completely tanked my opinion of the game. I was loving it, and then they came along, and afterwards it felt like a curtain had been pulled back and I could see the game's small budget. It was really jarring. Thankfully the characters made up for it through the rest of the game, but holy hell that was bad.

[Skykid]

How the fuck is Sine Mora not on this list?

It is now, and coupled to (very) appropriate footage.

As usual, should enough people positively argue in its favour, it will be removed, and enough cancel out their praises, then it will stay. It's war, Jim.

[Special World]

I actually don't really Sine Mora totally sucks, either. It has a number of good ideas, it just manages to step on every single one of them with a bad idea. I think the hate's overblown because A) it could have been really good and B) mainstream reviewers love it.

It's a mediocre game that should have been a great one.

[Squire Grooktook]

I guess it's really just a case that any non-good shooter isn't really "awful" to me, just completely uninteresting. Like, a shooter is either good or great or I just don't care..

To me, any game that bores me to the point of making me wish I was doing something else while playing, and/or leaves me feeling I wasted several hours of my life when I put it down, is a bad game.

Which is exactly what Soldner did for me.

Also curiously enough, by the above definition, Sine Mora is actually not a bad game. Flawed, yes, but I enjoyed the time I spent with it, and I didn't feel like I'd wasted my time when I put it down. I do think some of the hate is a result of how overhyped it was, not just from reviewers but from other stg players. I remember on another forum how several people were saying everyone should rush out and buy Sine Mora and play the hell out of it because it's "the most important shooter of this generation", as if it was some messiah come to bring the genre back into the mainstream or some bullshit.

*edit*

Too be fair though, I have not yet cleared Sine Mora, and neither did I do story mode. I just went straight to arcade difficulty on hard mode. I don't know if the later stages get extremely stupid or boring. I haven't gotten around to playing it since my first time trying it out, as I'v been busy playing other games.

[DocHauser]

I haven't played Shadows of the Damned so I wasn't aware of the 2D stages. Wow, they look horrible...

http://youtu.be/GOjhbJD_8Jw

[Special World]

I haven't played Shadows of the Damned so I wasn't aware of the 2D stages. Wow, they look horrible...

http://youtu.be/GOjhbJD_8Jw

they actually have a few good ideas but god they are so bad.

my favorite part is how the screen scrolls SO SLOWLY but there are spots where you become trapped. So you get trapped and have to wait 15 seconds for the screen to catch up and crush you. Also the fucking accordion music is a mockery of everything good about scrolling shooters.

I guess it's really just a case that any non-good shooter isn't really "awful" to me, just completely uninteresting. Like, a shooter is either good or great or I just don't care..

To me, any game that bores me to the point of making me wish I was doing something else while playing, and/or leaves me feeling I wasted several hours of my life when I put it down, is a bad game.

This is generally true for me, but not so much for STGs. There are a number of STGs that are perfectly solid but don't grab me. I think there's something of a difference between an uninteresting game and a bad one. Generally I don't try to play either sort of game, though.

[BPzeBanshee]

I actually don't really Sine Mora totally sucks, either. It has a number of good ideas, it just manages to step on every single one of them with a bad idea. I think the hate's overblown because A) it could have been really good and B) mainstream reviewers love it.

It's a mediocre game that should have been a great one.

You're ignoring C) the developers went LA-LA-LA-LA-LA from the very moment the criticism began as the issues became apparent even before release.

Sine Mora deserves the hate - its the product of that greater-than-thou attitude that's riddling the indie game market. If the devs actually listened to their audience they would've fixed all of the issues validly pointed out to them in a patch, and the game would be great. Easy as pie.

[Special World]

I was considering writing in that people here were upset because they didn't feel listened to, but that's dumb.

The reason that's dumb is because the game is what it is. The mechanics aren't somehow worse than they are because the developers didn't listen to people on the forums. They could have been greatly improved, but they are what they are and we need to be critical of what's actually there.

And anyways, if developers always listened to the community we'd have the same games over and over again and Sine Mora would just be Battle Garegga. I think Sine Mora is pretty weak, but it's the art the devs wanted to make. As creators, the onus is on them to create what they want. Maybe next time they'll do it better. But I wouldn't hold my breath, since they did release the most critically acclaimed shooter since Ikaruga.

[Skykid]

But I wouldn't hold my breath, since they did release the most critically acclaimed shooter since Ikaruga.

That sounds so messed up when you put it like that.

[Special World]

We live in a harsh world for sure.