no, that's really all your post said. you're offering the exact same problem that we have now, that's slowly pushing the genre further and further into the realm of the self-defeating.ACSeraph wrote:There's more to my post than that, if you actually read it. I'm offering a solution that keeps everyone happy. The only thing that will happen if you remove continues entirely is you will put the genre that much closer to the grave. You won't be reeducating people about the 1cc policies that all of us follow, because there won't be anyone to reeducate.
This isn't hard, give stage restart continues to help people learn the game, then give them a big fat "Let's no continues!" screen instead of the ending when they finish it. Problem solved, everyone can play the game, but it's clear they didn't actually beat it and should keep playing towards a 1cc. Even better, the stage restart continue system will have already gone a long way towards preparing them for the true 1cc when they are ready to tackle it.
once again, you don't get what is actually meant by "no continues". you act as if people care so much about "continues"... they don't, they're just expected to care, and so that's what they do. the very existence of continues is exactly what causes this problem. all the deterrents in the world don't mean a thing because they can still "finish" the game, and that's all they're told to do.
noone in this condition is EVER ready to tackle the 1cc, no matter how much you encourage. THAT is the problem we're facing. you have to take a completely different path to solve this problem, and apparently that requires changing the mindset of the "hardcore fans" as well as the "casual newcomers".
pegboy wrote:Removing continues, easy modes, and other features that entice new players is just going to beat the lifeless SHMUP corpse into the ground even more. You need to get new players into the genre first, and hopefully they stick around long enough to care about playing and finishing these games "the real way". These games are hard enough as is, no need to force people into playing them the "hardcore" way and alienate them right off the bat.
it's just an army of people who are obsessed with the concept of continues, and not what they mean. it's really bizarre and contradictory that the entire point of this community is that continues are generally a "sin" except when their existence is being challenged. they come up with the most ridiculous reasons to defend something they're supposed to hate, except those reasons have nothing to do with anything.near_miss wrote:Whaaaat really. No continues?
I grew up in the arcade generation. And rich kids able continue their way to the end of every game was just a fact of life. That didn't make the game worse. That made things all the more sweeter of having the skill to need less money. That circumstance existed then, and although it might have "robbed a game of it's enjoyment" it didn't kill the genre. The difference now, is instead of physical currency, it's pride.
I credit feed through games when I'm in the honey moon phase of a new game. The games that take hold of me, I slowly ween myself off of credits -- because it's more fun that way. That's the organic way of playing a game - you die less and less, this is the progression, without even thinking about what's happening it's happening. Sometimes I'll still play an extra credit - but the score suffers for it. It's nice to have that option though, as if I were in an arcade. So I think that the design is already intact. Score resets or a stigma of +1 point per credit is enough for me to want to get better.
Really, the honor is in the heart of the gamer. And in every genre, there will be people who connect more than others, but adding rules, adding restrictions - limitations -- do you really think that's going to attract more people? I would think it would cause many people to give up sooner. It's the same either way, a person credit feeds their way through, gets bored, or can't pass the third level, gets bored, moves on. But in both cases, a percentage of the population exists (here) who do get the thrill of a 1cc.
And of course I'm not saying people should be rewarded for continuing - but alternately seeking a 1cc already exists as it's own reward. I did not come to this genre with that intention, it's something that was slowly revealed to me through the joy of playing.
I don't think imposing more rules/creative restrictions will get people who are already uninterested/easily distracted to care any more. If everybody liked everything, the world would be a very boring place.
All this genre needs is creativity and passion to "continue"
noone is ever going to have the creativity and passion to continue this genre if noone has the creativity and passion to play the actual games.
bizarrely, people don't really get that this supposed "restarting over and over" is actually playing the game, while anything else simply isn't. people restart over and over and have no idea why they're restarting or what they're restarting for. they're not paying attention. they don't want to play the game, or even credit feed to learn it. they just want to mindlessly grind away for whatever they're told to do and then stop associating with the game forever.endoKarb wrote:Well put, near_miss.
It is really that "1 credit no continues" mentality that is harming the genre big time, with people compulsively restarting over and over and beating themselves up instead of playing the goddamn games.
But what can you do.
you're getting super depressed because you're told to get super depressed by people who are told to dislike the concept of games. you have got to break free of that, or at least be part of a movement that tries to do so.
seriously, the mere thought of having to endure an RPG makes me cringe like a cat drowning in a frozen river.
