Guwange 360

[captpain]

I understand your concern. Certainly its fine to let CAVE no your frustrations if you feel like emailing them. But is this really a big enough issue to not purchase the game for $10 and get some fun out it and encourage CAVE to pursue releasing their games via XBLA and/or retail disk?

It is absolutely, no doubt, 100% a big enough issue to not purchase a game if it isn't formatted to fit your screen. Are you just trolling?

[RNGmaster]

The main reason I'd prefer we don't complain about this tate issue is that if the game gets a negative reception, CAVE will give up on marketing to the west. And we don't want that. Rating the game down because it doesn't take up the full screen will not help us get more STGs on XBLA, at the very least. I think we ought to be thankful that CAVE saw fit to start developing for western markets at all.

[KisakiProject]

@CAPTPAIN

Basically I was saying what RNG just said. Sorry if It sounded like I was trolling

Also CAVE seems to pay attention to their facebook page and people are complaining on there. I would give them a chance to answer before condemning them.

This has always been an issue for standard def TVs. LAST gen I used to turn my little 13" TV on its side to play GCN/PS2 games. The instruction books always said not to but I always had fun doing it. Not that its a legitimate solution to the problem.

Honestly I'm surprised that people that spend so much money on importing and cabinets don't own HI-TVs or monitors. I wouldn't have expected that. But now that you explain it it does make sense.

[StarCreator]

To be completely honest, if Deathsmiles NA and this is how they are going to treat overseas releases, I couldn't care less if they went back to only focusing on the Japanese market. It's equally important to send the message that half-assed efforts like these are unacceptable. If they really want to break into the market, they have to show it by actually fixing these problems.

Which leads me to think: Guwange is a global release, right? Is anyone monitoring 2ch to see what's been said of this issue in Cave's main market?

Honestly I'm surprised that people that spend so much money on importing and cabinets don't own HI-TVs or monitors. I wouldn't have expected that. But now that you explain it it does make sense.

Not everyone who owns an HDTV wants to game on it, as all flat panels have at least one frame of lag due to limitations of the display technology, and nearly every HDTV on the market has additional lag on top of that due to the scaler. It's also much more comfortable playing with the display at a 45 degree angle in front of you (as most candy cabs are set up), which is impossible for most consumer HDTVs.

[NzzpNzzp]

The main reason I'd prefer we don't complain about this tate issue is that if the game gets a negative reception, CAVE will give up on marketing to the west. And we don't want that. Rating the game down because it doesn't take up the full screen will not help us get more STGs on XBLA, at the very least. I think we ought to be thankful that CAVE saw fit to start developing for western markets at all.

I dunno if we really need to be grateful to a company for allowing us to give them money. Especially when it's in return for a product that doesn't work properly.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I don't have a facebook account but I want to let Cave know that the absence of a real 4:3 mode is unacceptable for me. I can'T post anything on their facebook without an account, can I? I seem to be too stupid to find their email adresse, I'd be grateful if somebody could post it again, thanks.

[gs68]

Cave also has a Twitter account although I'm not sure if you have one.

[bcass]

This has always been an issue for standard def TVs.

No it hasn't. These problems don't affect any other Xbox 360 games.

[brentsg]

Basically I was saying what RNG just said. Sorry if It sounded like I was trolling.

This has always been an issue for standard def TVs. LAST gen I used to turn my little 13" TV on its side to play GCN/PS2 games. The instruction books always said not to but I always had fun doing it. Not that its a legitimate solution to the problem.

Honestly I'm surprised that people that spend so much money on importing and cabinets don't own HI-TVs or monitors.

Just because Cave graced us with this release doesn't mean we have to accept deficiencies. I believe in supporting them too, but you have to draw a line somewhere. Vote with your dollars, but also make sure to provide them with feedback so they understand why people are dissatisfied so they can fix it.

Also, this hasn't been an issue before. In fact I play my 360 on a CRT all the time and I only recall DeathSmiles II arcade mode having this issue. Perhaps had the community been more vocal at that time, we'd not have the Guwange issue.

And regarding having (or not having) an HDTV, I'm sure most of us do. But since we're using the Japanese 360's primarily to play shmups that are natively 4:3, many of us utilize them with 4:3 CRTs to properly emulate the original arcade experience. Moving it over to an HDTV just for Guwange is a poor work-around. Note that some people even have the 360's mounted in arcade cabs.. also 4:3.

[E. Randy Dupre]

This has always been an issue for standard def TVs.

No it hasn't. These problems don't affect any other Xbox 360 games.

Project Gotham Racing 3 displays in a widescreen letterbox on a 4:3 monitor. I can't remember which other games are affected in a similar way, but I know that it's not the only example.

[jonny5]

I think perhaps the issue is that KisakiProject does not understand playing 'tate'.

You do realize these games were meant to be played on a vertical monitor, right?

With the screen rotated and the TV on its side, it should be fullscreen on a 4:3 tv.

The fact that it isn't is the problem.

Apologies if I am wrong about this KisakiProject. Just the idea I was getting from your posts.

[bcass]

Project Gotham Racing 3 displays in a widescreen letterbox on a 4:3 monitor. I can't remember which other games are affected in a similar way, but I know that it's not the only example.

Apart from the two Cave games, it doesn't affect any of the other games in my collection, and I have plenty. It's certainly not a common issue.

Do we have a full list of Achievements for Guwange yet?

[emphatic]

Project Gotham Racing 3 displays in a widescreen letterbox on a 4:3 monitor. I can't remember which other games are affected in a similar way, but I know that it's not the only example.

Well, if that game is 16:9, then that's not really bad. Would it be better if it was shown in a zoomed in and cropped Pan & Scan format? Showing a 4:3 game inside a 16:9 mode inside a 4:3 screen area is the real issue.

4:3 mode inside a 16:9 area on a 16:9 screen = good
16:9 mode inside a 4:3 area on a 4:3 screen = good
4:3 mode on a 4:3 screen = perfect
16:9 mode on a 16:9 screen = perfect

What if a port of a 16:9 game was presented like this on a 16:9 screen, would people not object?

[gs68]

After Burner Climax has a similar issue. The arcade original is 4:3, the port 16:9, and even on a 4:3 screen the port runs in letterboxed 16:9. Although it's not as big of an issue because at least the game window takes the entire letterboxed space.

[Phellan Wolf]

Project Gotham Racing 3 displays in a widescreen letterbox on a 4:3 monitor. I can't remember which other games are affected in a similar way, but I know that it's not the only example.

Well, if that game is 16:9, then that's not really bad. Would it be better if it was shown in a zoomed in and cropped Pan & Scan format? Showing a 4:3 game inside a 16:9 mode inside a 4:3 screen area is the real issue.

4:3 mode inside a 16:9 area on a 16:9 screen = good
16:9 mode inside a 4:3 area on a 4:3 screen = good
4:3 mode on a 4:3 screen = perfect
16:9 mode on a 16:9 screen = perfect

What if a port of a 16:9 game was presented like this on a 16:9 screen, would people not object?

Damn, it is too ugly to look at it.
I reakky hope for a patch or something.

[bcass]

That isn't the problem. This is the problem:



To turn the tables a little bit, one nice feature I just noticed: Offline Play has a Save/Load game option in it, meaning you can save at any point so you don't have to do the whole game in one sitting. Really useful if you're having a good run and are called away for whatever reason.

[Matsunaga]

It is strange that the screen settings for Galuda II and Futari were fine, but for Guwange, they're all fucked up. You would think they would use the template that worked fine for their previous titles.

[gray117]

Letter-boxing such as pgr3 in typically employed where the widescreen view is integral to the game-play. True, there's then some laziness to NOT give you a full 4:3 option [re-arranging HUD/Menus/text boxes etc.], however the point here is that with Guwange the original source material is 4:3 ...


I can only presume at this stage this was a dirty implementation of their widescreen render; providing the addition of side letter boxing enforced across all ratios.

What confuses me is why we see so much difference between cave port solutions at this stage; they're not additive/inclusive - but different and exclusive.

Sure I have hd monitors/tvs but I actually want to play my 4:3 games in the 4:3 screens I bought for them hd or sd... Guwange ruins this - even for a high res 4:3 squashing of a widescreen resolution since there's no way to force the scaling in a single axis in Guwange.

What's next? Disabling wallpaper brightness? [ps. - fuck you garou...]

Buy this game, and then complain ... if no one buys it there's no reason to change, support, or even listen.

So, on those emulation discussions - who thought they'd fuck it up this bad and make emulation look so good after all?

[bcass]

So, on those emulation discussions - who thought they'd fuck it up this bad and make emulation look so good after all?

I knew they'd fuck it up somehow, and that MAME would remain the superior experience, when the port was first announced. I said as much in this very thread. Can't say I'm happy to be proven right, but there you have it. My opinion is that Cave are the very worst people to be handling all these ports. M2 and (eventually) 5pb do far better jobs. I mean, seriously, in what dimension is it considered useful in a game, that's ALL about scoring, to remove any sort of personal identification in the local leaderboards? It's just so incredibly retarded, that it has to be a joke of some sort.

[Alfred]

I am sorry some people are having some problems. But i am enjoying the game. I think my view is in the majority. Great game. Bargain at 800 MSP. I hope for more Japanese shooting games on XBLA. I am not a troll.

[Kollision]

This thread is a great example of why we're seen as geeks and snobs.

For the average gamer, Guwange plays fine.
For some of us, it's a broken game because it doesn't allow us to input our names in high scores or because it doesn't display how we want it in CRT TVs (a dead technology for what it's worth these days). If I told this to any of my gamer friends they would say I'm retarded.

As for the game, I'm not disappointed, mainly because my 360 is hooked to a LCD set and this is the first time I'm seeing it. I've yet to play it, but I kinda liked what I saw in 5 minutes.

[brentsg]

It just comes down to this: If you play Guwange on an HDTV it's fine. If you play it on a CRT it's broken.

Sadly, a CRT should be the optimal way to enjoy it.

[bcass]

Here are the icons for all the achievements, extracted from the game image file (thanks to Tyjet for filling-in two of the secret ones):

Shishin's Technique (10G)

Clear the game using Shishin.

Kosame's Technique (10G)

Clear the game using Kosame.

Gensuke's Technique (10G)

Clear the game using Gensuke.

The Great Statue (5G)

Destroyed the Great Statue in Stage 3 without destroying any of the small statues.

Money Grubber (10G)

Connected a 10,000 coin combo.

Cash Fiend (20G)

Collected a 30,000 coin combo.

Grind for the Gold! (15G)

Scored 25,000,000 points.

Pocket Change (15G)

Collected 1000 coins during a boss battle.

(Secret) The Subjugation of Guwange-sama! (20G)

Defeated Guwange-sama without taking damage.

(Secret) True Diabolical Power! (50G)

Destroyed Amagisu's final form without taking damage.

(Secret) To New Heights... (25G)

Scored 50,000,000 points.

(Secret) With Love from Guwange-sama... (10G)

Suffer a noble defeat by Guwange-sama.

Aparently, achievements won't unlock in Training or when loading a saved game in Offline mode.

[KindGrind]

But it obviously wasn't designed for it.

[Shuurin]

This thread is a great example of why genre loving gamers are seen as geeks and snobs.

Yes I agree, go look at other genre specific forums and see they aren't bitching about their games not being perfect. Its the same for anyone whether its fighting/fps/racing/etc games.

What I don't understand is why people feel its wrong to demand perfection from a developer? They are expecting to make a profit from us, buying unfinished products (the damn X/Y scaling is visible, but grayed out ) is reinforcing bad work ethic and mismanagement of development time. Allow them to slack and quality goes right out the window.

[Tyjet]

Here are the icons for all the achievements, extracted from the game image file. Might be possible to work out what the remaining three secret ones are from these...

I can comfirm this is:

To New Heights...

Scored 50,000,000 points

the other two: xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?p=3724457

The Subjugation of Guwange-sama!

Defeated Guwange-sama without taking damage.

True Diabolical Power!

Destroyed Amagisu's final form without taking damage.



I'm not to hot on the idea where you can unlock most of these in the 360 mode

[KisakiProject]

No I do know what playing TATE means I guess it not as much of a deal to me as it is to other people. I never thought to bother playing TATE once we moved into the HD gen as I mentioned before I did it with GCN/PS2 games. But that's personal preference. For the record I hope CAVE fixes it for you. You guys are missing out.

For people that are surprised by the difference between the effort put into the retail discs and this its to be expected. The amount of return for the discs versus a $ dlc. It makes sense they would cheap out the dlc game. After all the didn't bother redrawing the sprites like they did for ESP2 and MHSF. Its a pity though cause it seems to have alienated some of their base.

Anyways, I just had a great run through. Got about half through level 6 on 1cc. I'm loving this game. The unconventionality of it really does it for me.

[jepjepjep]

I don't have a facebook account but I want to let Cave know that the absence of a real 4:3 mode is unacceptable for me. I can'T post anything on their facebook without an account, can I? I seem to be too stupid to find their email adresse, I'd be grateful if somebody could post it again, thanks.

blog360@mail.cave.co.jp

This is the email address that was posted on the official cave blog earlier this year. I'm going to send them a nicely worded email thanking them for making Guwange a worldwide release, but also mentioning the screen issues and urging them to patch in a correct 3:4 display mode.

If gamers don't voice their dissatisfaction, how will Cave know that this is indeed a problem?

[bcass]

Here are the icons for all the achievements, extracted from the game image file. Might be possible to work out what the remaining three secret ones are from these...

I can comfirm this is:

To New Heights...

Scored 50,000,000 points

I'm not to hot on the idea where you can unlock most of these in the 360 mode

Cheers. Just two more to find out then. They're obviously related in some way to the two final bosses. It's nothing to do with defeating them (at least not with continues) because I've done that and not got them as Achievements...

[evil_ash_xero]

E-mail sent.

What bugs me the most is that the game only really looks good on a CRT. On a LCD it looks blurry. On a CRT the game looks quite good. That's what's irking me the most. I have the same issue with Ketsui, but I can just hook it up to my CRT and it looks great....and fills the screen.