Is pirating really that bad ?!?

[Michaelm]

My pre-order copy of Homura got lost in the mail, and since then I have been playing a "backup copy" does that make me a pirate? That is the only backup I play that I don't have the original discs for (yet.. I guess I have to buy another copy ).

Mine got lost too, ordered from yes-asia.
I mailed them and I got a new one for free.
Excellent service I must say.

[SAM]

It is diffcult to decide whether a game is good just by reviews and screen shoots.

Not many people is afforded to buy every games which looks remotely interesting. And selling unwanted games are nearly always resulted in a loss.

Getting a copy via piracy is a way to found out whether a game is worth a purchase. Hopfully when console got more online capacity, game developers might be able to provide downloadable console demo just like those for the PC games.

[Guardians Knight]

hmm i feel the need to add my opinion.

i think the mantra 'if a game is worth pirating its worth buying' is BULLSHIT

perhaps it should be changed to 'if a game was 50% cheaper i wouldnt need to pirate it'

the case in point being the price drop in places where piracy is most prevailent. but why should companies drop prices in the U.K. or other western countries when they already make a killing off their over priced games.

I actually know a couple of games devs, they work for a company based in Gateshead, i said to one of them, so what do you think of piracy, would you never speak to me again if i pirated one of your games? and he replied, 'i dont give a damn a about piracy, the publisher pays our firm the same amount of money regardless'

[system11]

perhaps it should be changed to 'if a game was 50% cheaper i wouldnt need to pirate it'

Will your heart stop beating if you don't pirate games? Ohnoes! Your suggestion above is yet another classic line from people who typically turn out to be Full Of Shit[tm] when said item is offered in sales significantly cheaper.

[howmuchkeefe]

Treasure would probably re-release RSG if they thought they could make money doing it. It's not as if they're benefitting from the $300+ price RSG commands on ebay.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[neorichieb1971]

Piracy is deemed to hurt the industry as long as the industry feels the end user has the choice to pirate software.

Piracy is a lack of control, the industry cannot dictate maximum gains from anything if something is available for free.

If you have no control and your shareholders have no guarantee of a return, then what gives?

I think 6 months after release pirating should be allowed, but not from day 1. But there is no way to control that.. so!

I buy what I like because I am a fan, all fans pave the way for everyone else to copy for free. If you like shmups and you copy everything, your hardly a fan, your just a leech.

[SAM]

Piracy is deemed to hurt the industry as long as the industry feels the end user has the choice to pirate software.

Piracy is a lack of control, the industry cannot dictate maximum gains from anything if something is available for free.

If you have no control and your shareholders have no guarantee of a return, then what gives?

I think 6 months after release pirating should be allowed, but not from day 1. But there is no way to control that.. so!

I buy what I like because I am a fan, all fans pave the way for everyone else to copy for free. If you like shmups and you copy everything, your hardly a fan, your just a leech.

What are you saying? It absolutely unacceptable.

Actually the main problem is a game might not be justified for a reprint, economically. And the lack of supply drive up the 2nd hand price of the game.

The solution is to have the game developer sold the game online as download ROM image. If they figure out how to do this without pirating, we would all enjoy games like RSG at their official retail price.

And the game developers would able to sold as many copies as people want to buy. But this also means the end of the 2nd hand market.

[howmuchkeefe]

If a developer won't provide download services until pirating disappears, than that developer will never provide download services. I'm betting that the developer who provides download services in spite of piracy will fare better.

[SAM]

If a developer won't provide download services until pirating disappears, than that developer will never provide download services. I'm betting that the developer who provides download services in spite of piracy will fare better.

Well some online games are already doing this. For example: Capcom's PS2 Settlers of Catan, Magic the Gethering Online, and also some others online RPGs.

[magnum opus]

I can't understand the "gaming is expensive" argument. I keep hearing people complaining how games are expensive and bla bla bla.

Cars are expensive too. That's why I don't collect them.

Piracy is theft. You don't see people saying "Ohh, this car are too expensive, so I stole it" or "T-shirts are too expensive, How can I know every T-Shirt if I don't have money to buy them all? I have to steal them"


Not that I condone piracy, but THIS specfic argument makes no sense to me.

Zweihander arguments are better in my point of view

you know this is argument that gets brought up a lot about software and it really kind of shows the root of the problem. software, shit even music and movie are relatively recent and software in particular its a new thing.
basically there's a pretty significant difference between a normal material good and software.
you can't duplicate a car at no cost. a car requires steel and electronics and class and all sorts a shit.
software on the other hand has no intrinsic value. software is a non-thing.
when you pirate a copy the game company doesn't experience a loss and neither does the owner which you got it from.
no one has lost anything. the company has simply not gained anything, this can yes be detrimental to them due to the investement required to create the game but it really is not the same thing as stealing a car.
further it should be pointed out that "piracy" IS NOT THEFT IT IS COPYRIGHT VIOLATION

the open source community already more or less realizes this and so they make their money off services and value added. hell even the closed source business recongize that the real money is made from charging for services.


also i have a brilliant idea for the game industry:
charge more for ad-space.

seriously the US Military pointed this out
cost to produce an ultra high quality cutting edge game 10-40 million
cost of a single thirty second ad during the super bowl 10-40 million

[howmuchkeefe]

also i have a brilliant idea for the game industry:
charge more for ad-space.

Not a bad idea.

...but if advertising in games ever becomes anywhere near (like, one one hundredth) as obtrusive as it is in practically every other facet of waking life, then I'll become a strictly retro gamer.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm not saying piracy is totally unacceptable.

I do believe in capatilism though and I believe that if you are successful you earned the right to have something that some poor bastard doesn't.

Therefore there must be guidelines for copyright just like everything else in life to keep software in line with materialistic items.


Using the argument of cars. Say I wanted a Ferrari but couldn't afford it, I steal it, then return it. Nobody has lost anything either but its still not acceptable behaviour. It seems that since software detaches from its creators/owners reaches, people steal it because nobody is looking and the risk of getting caught is zero. But, your more likely to find lawyers, police, politicians copying software.. Therefore there is no deterrant or conscience factor.

In my opinion there should be tariffs for punishment on copyright. If you copy something within 6 months of release and you get caught, you get a year in jail.

Sound good?

[howmuchkeefe]

...only one year? That sounds a bit lax, considering that it's almost impossible to prove damages related to piracy. The figure could be as high as a trillion kajillion dollars, rather making one year in jail seem like a slap on the wrist.

EDIT: Seriously, I'd much rather that commuinty service be the response to piracy. Working for free sucks a whole lot, it'd cost society a lot less money, and it makes for better PR.

[tekneekz]

pirating will never stop these threads are useless. im willing to bet money that most people who disaggree with pirating does it as well on the low low.

[neorichieb1971]

Your right I pirate, but I buy all the things im passionate about.

But, I think that somewhat seperates me from the clans that go around pirating everything just because they can. and buy nothing.

[Guardians Knight]

@ bloodflowers

i realise you were only generalising there so i wont take that comment personally, however i'd like to add that i have a significant amount of original dc, ps1, ps2, amiga, c64 games and a huge music collection and a growing dvd collection. All of which were bought at a price i considered fair i.e in sales etc. (music is fairly priced i have no problems with that). its something i've said for a long time that games should not be more than £15-£20 and it seems to prove my point that if dropping prices in pirate crazy places increases sales then why the hell dont they do that here too?

No i wont shrivel up and die if i dont get to play game X, but then either way the publishers wont lose whether i dont buy their overpriced software or if i pirate it.
incidently last game i bought - sega rally 2006 £29 for two games; if i think they are at a fair price i WILL buy them.

[neorichieb1971]

Prices won't drop because development costs are set with patterns and trends of the existing market place. Something like Shadow of the collossus which took 4 years to make wouldn't break even at 15-20 GBP and besides there is still quite a few people out there that will pay more.

They will not drop the price because X amount of people won't pay that much.

[Guardians Knight]

im not saying by not buying a game will make them drop the prices, im just saying games are too expensive and i wont pay £30-£50. obviously price dropping is worth it in some countries as has already been discussed, games companies are only out to make as much profit as possible, not that i know any facts and figures but i'd be willing to bet that Collossus would still easily clear a profit at £20 for one thing it would make it more accessable to people i.e. youth who have a low income etc etc

the arguement rages onwards there are only two things that are certain:
1, piracy is illegal
2, some people will always pirate

[FatCobra]

Would I pirate Microsoft Windows XP or Office? Hell yes! I'm not paying $200 for an operating system or a word processing program. Of course, M$ has a monopoly on the market so is seems right to pirate their software.

As for pirating PC games, I found that usually the pirate copy isn't as good as the actual thing. Sometimes I couldn't even get the pirate copies to work!

Pirating may be harming the consumer as well, look at all the bullshit copy protection methods publishers have to put on their software. I want to pirate Half-Life 2 out of spite to Valve just because I think Steam sucks ass. The pirate copies sometimes runs better than the actual thing because there's no copy protection slowing things down. Sometimes CP is downright harmful to one's computer. Just look at Starforce for example.

Sure, I emulate old games, what's wrong with that? Everybody does it. The games companies aren't being harmed. Everyone downloads Mp3s, whose cares? The record company? Please, those bastards deserve to die.

I see piracy as a double-edge sword. (Yay! Free games! Oh-no! Lawyers!)

[SAM]

Would I pirate Microsoft Windows XP or Office? Hell yes! I'm not paying $200 for an operating system or a word processing program. Of course, M$ has a monopoly on the market so is seems right to pirate their software.

M$ is bad does not means you could steal from them. If you pirate their product, you just make yourself as bad as them.

There are other options for OS (Linux?)...

[Zweihander]

Would I pirate Microsoft Windows XP or Office? Hell yes! I'm not paying $200 for an operating system or a word processing program. Of course, M$ has a monopoly on the market so is seems right to pirate their software.

M$ is bad does not means you could steal from them. If you pirate their product, you just make yourself as bad as them.

There are other options for OS (Linux?)...

Proud pirate owner of Windows XP Professional Edition OS, here. After the shit they pulled with Windows ME, they deserve to be stolen from.

[KBZ]

Would I pirate Microsoft Windows XP or Office? Hell yes! I'm not paying $200 for an operating system or a word processing program. Of course, M$ has a monopoly on the market so is seems right to pirate their software.

M$ is bad does not means you could steal from them. If you pirate their product, you just make yourself as bad as them.

There are other options for OS (Linux?)...

Proud pirate owner of Windows XP Professional Edition OS, here. After the shit they pulled with Windows ME, they deserve to be stolen from.

but legally that's not your decision to make. If you don't want to give money to M$, then give it to a good Linux distro, or get a free one.

We live in a world that for the most part offers lawful means to get around problems, so it's only in good interest for society to use it.

Many will always pirate it seems,. good to see that many here at least agree that piracy is illegal, and a moral injustice.

I've pirated before, and I will again probably in some way. It's hard to resist the tempation when it's so easy. But in its essence, it's quite a selfish thing.

maybe there should be anti-piracy AA meetings. :p

[FatCobra]

The problem with Linux is that 99.9% of all program run on Windows only.

[magnum opus]

The problem with Linux is that 99.9% of all program run on Windows only.

games maybe but it has a fairly comprable number of applications and utilities
and wine/cedega can take care of many games

also linux has CHOICE, there's a dozen options for everything

[GaijinPunch]

also linux has CHOICE, there's a dozen options for everything

And most of them are free, too.

when you pirate a copy the game company doesn't experience a loss and neither does the owner which you got it from.

Should I even bother? Okay, I will. Square Enix makes FFXII. One person buys it, 8 million get copies of that one off the net. Square Enix has made 7800 yen for their 3 billion yen investment. How is that not a loss?

Using the argument of cars. Say I wanted a Ferrari but couldn't afford it, I steal it, then return it. Nobody has lost anything either but its still not acceptable behaviour.

That must be a type-o. I know you've got your head screwed on straight neoritchie, but saying that "nobody has lost anything" is just ... wrong on all levels. The person that the car was stolen from? Insured? Okay, he gets only it's used value, and his premiums go up, while the insurance is out however much they cut him a check for.

[system11]

The problem with Linux is that 99.9% of all program run on Windows only.

No, you can still continue taking what you're not entitled to, as Azureus exists for Linux. So do a whole bunch of emulators, web browsers, mail clients, and a fairly decent office suite. Even Blitz Basic exists for it now.

[FatCobra]

The problem with Linux is that 99.9% of all program run on Windows only.

games maybe but it has a fairly comprable number of applications and utilities
and wine/cedega can take care of many games

also linux has CHOICE, there's a dozen options for everything

Damn, I'm ignorant.

[PaCrappa]

IBTN.

Also, on a side note, it's funny to read posts wherein some guy is crying about what horrible fuckups Treasure are because they're like awesome or something but they don't make good with the rerelease fan-service so he can't afford to legitimately play. Then, the same guy sees Alien Soldier at a pawn shop for $2 and doesn't buy it? I don't think that the PAL vs NTSC thing would have come into play at the time because he didn't even know there was a difference until yesterday.

Sounds like someone's in this argument a little over his head. And all for the sake of justifying not paying his own way.

Pa

[captain ahar]

Yes, piracy is bad. That's why to this day, I refuse to watch Pirates of the Caribbean. I still can't believe that Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom would endorse such activities.

oh no you didn't...

alright buddy, you've got your war.

edit: i know this is late as hell, but i never cared enough about the thread to look at it before... :B

[Zweihander]

IBTN.

Also, on a side note, it's funny to read posts wherein some guy is crying about what horrible fuckups Treasure are because they're like awesome or something but they don't make good with the rerelease fan-service so he can't afford to legitimately play. Then, the same guy sees Alien Soldier at a pawn shop for $2 and doesn't buy it? I don't think that the PAL vs NTSC thing would have come into play at the time because he didn't even know there was a difference until yesterday.

Sounds like someone's in this argument a little over his head. And all for the sake of justifying not paying his own way.

Pa

lol... looks like Pa's got a problem with me, for some reason.