20th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[Steven]

I played Ketsui... like twice. PS5 says I played it for 49 minutes. I barely remember anything about it and I have no fucking clue how to get score, but the lock on thing is cool. More games should have something like that.

I never player any DDP outside of the first (PSX) and DonPachi...yet

Saidaioujou is the best one, or at least my favourite one, although that crazy DDP II that looks like a very amateur bootleg ROM hack but is legit is actually pretty cool, if only because it looks like a bootleg but isn't. It's a super weird game. Only played it once, but I'd love to get the PCB/cart/whatever the fuck it runs on. Apparently both the PS1 and Saturn versions of DDP are terrible or something, but I've never played them.

[To Far Away Times]

Ketsui is pretty damn cool. The stage 4 song is an all timer.

I got as far as the backwards scrolling section in stage 5 but the game just starts asking so much from the player. Maybe a little too much for my skill level.

[ryu]

Only played it once, but I'd love to get the PCB/cart/whatever the fuck it runs on. Apparently both the PS1 and Saturn versions of DDP are terrible or something, but I've never played them.

I hope M2 will eventually release a collection of Donpachi, Dodonpachi and Dodonpachi II. That selection should also cover a good range of skill levels without need for any fancy arrange modes.

How is the Saturn port of Donpachi anyways? Though, I don't dare to look up for how much it goes these days.

[BulletMagnet]

How is the Saturn port of Donpachi anyways?

Rather slowdown-riddled if memory serves, the PS1 version is generally recommended over it.

[ryu]

How is the Saturn port of Donpachi anyways?

Rather slowdown-riddled if memory serves, the PS1 version is generally recommended over it.

Thanks! But I really hope M2 gets to work on this. On ebay there's a copy for 90€ and one for, wait for it, 180€. The Saturn prices are all close to the latter. I remember this used to be one of the cheaper retro shmups that nobody wanted. :/

[Steven]

Only played it once, but I'd love to get the PCB/cart/whatever the fuck it runs on. Apparently both the PS1 and Saturn versions of DDP are terrible or something, but I've never played them.

I hope M2 will eventually release a collection of Donpachi, Dodonpachi and Dodonpachi II. That selection should also cover a good range of skill levels without need for any fancy arrange modes.

A while ago Horii mentioned that he wants to do DDPII. That would be cool.

[Lethe]

I've legitimately considered voting for DDP2 at times. Fundamental example of how scaling systems can salvage a game even if nothing else the design intends goes right; bizarro world DDP1. Of course it's still highly stupid in practice, but it's a happy sort of accident.

[Lemnear]

Apparently both the PS1 and Saturn versions of DDP are terrible or something, but I've never played them.

No slowdown on PSX version of DoDonPachi and runs faster than the PCB and Saturn versions.

Saidaioujou is the best one, or at least my favourite one, although that crazy DDP II that looks like a very amateur bootleg ROM hack but is legit is actually pretty cool, if only because it looks like a bootleg but isn't.

Ahahah after this i'm not sure i'll ever try it

[Steven]

I think I read somewhere that DDPII might have saved CAVE from bankruptcy because of its success, but while I am not sure where I read it or how true it is, I do know that its success did directly result in Daioujou. I think it's worth playing DDPII just because I like weird games and it's a weird game.

If there is another weird game I'd like to see rereleased it's Bakuretsu Breaker. Saw it at Taito Hey once and was absolutely not disappointed.

[cfx]

.

[fruitbatsalad]

Thanks once again, Nifty, for keeping the tradition alive.

Hi BulletMagnet - could we get this post pinned? Currently the 2022 Top 25 is still pinned, and this 2024 one is about to fall off the first page. Thanks!

[AyeYoYoYO]

I hope M2 will eventually release a collection of Donpachi, Dodonpachi and Dodonpachi II. That selection should also cover a good range of skill levels without need for any fancy arrange modes.

I'd much rather M2 do Ibara and Pink Sweets first, which I'll actually buy and at least in Ibar's case hasn't had an acceptable port yet.

Co-sign!

[Technicolor]

I think a game suitable for beginners can show truly masterful design... but at the same time, the game cannot express its maximum SHMUP potential, because it's tailor-made for beginners (IMO).

I'd like to push back on this. Designing a game for beginners means tradeoffs for veterans, sure, but I don't think that translates to "lost potential." Nor is a game made for veterans necessarily fulfilling that potential. Potential implies the game could have been better, but a game designed for beginners would explicitly be worse at that job if it was harder. And Ketsui is a good game in part because there are beginner-friendly games that can work as a stepping-stone towards it-- a test without lessons is a failure of curriculum.

Different games appeal to different players, and fill different roles at different stages of players' enjoyment of the hobby. So I'd rather not imply beginner shmups are "lesser" in some way; if a player eventually finds them too easy, those games have succeeded.

[BurlyHeart]

BIG thank you for taking the time to do this Nifty. I still come back to view this list and see what games I haven't yet tried or should go back to.

Must very time consuming, and just wanted to voice my appreciation.

Bit sad Blue Revolver fell of the HMs. I credit Dariusburst as the first game got me into scoring, but Blue Revolver was the first that really got me into score runs and taught me a lot about the genre. Hopefully we will see the updated version soon.

[Lemnear]

I think a game suitable for beginners can show truly masterful design... but at the same time, the game cannot express its maximum SHMUP potential, because it's tailor-made for beginners (IMO).

I'd like to push back on this. Designing a game for beginners means tradeoffs for veterans, sure, but I don't think that translates to "lost potential." Nor is a game made for veterans necessarily fulfilling that potential. Potential implies the game could have been better, but a game designed for beginners would explicitly be worse at that job if it was harder. And Ketsui is a good game in part because there are beginner-friendly games that can work as a stepping-stone towards it-- a test without lessons is a failure of curriculum.

Different games appeal to different players, and fill different roles at different stages of players' enjoyment of the hobby. So I'd rather not imply beginner shmups are "lesser" in some way; if a player eventually finds them too easy, those games have succeeded.

I didn't say lesser
but at the top there are games that are notoriously not easy, and not exactly for everyone... that is, they can be, but they could also scare a novice at the same time.

[Air Master Burst]

Sad I missed the voting, but sometimes life intervenes.

Not that it would've made much difference, Cave is the people's champ and Toaplan is for miserable old bastards like me. Maybe could've pushed Batsugun into the top 10, though.

[Sengoku Strider]

Sad I missed the voting, but sometimes life intervenes.

Not that it would've made much difference, Cave is the people's champ and Toaplan is for miserable old bastards like me. Maybe could've pushed Batsugun into the top 10, though.

At least Batsugun & Flying Shark made the list, you're eatin' out here. Against all odds not a single Konami shooter is on there, not even the Cave one. Compile's entire catalogue got completely frozen out by the danmaku supremacists. Technosoft too, looking back TF3 was the top game on these lists for years. Don't even ask about Hudson or Kaneko.

Strikers II is the lone Psikyo game standing, I consider it downright immoral that Gunbird 2 got knocked off this time around, Dragon Blaze has a great case too. Strikers II is a great game that always bugs me because they took the Spitfire out, it's only the most iconic WWII fighter and the one I always go to in the first game.

I can only complain so much, the quality of Cave stuff is undeniable and I even voted for a few of those titles myself. But it's still a less fun world when not a single Aleste or Star Soldier or Thunder or even Gradius title title gets any kind of recognition.

[Technicolor]

I didn't say lesser
but at the top there are games that are notoriously not easy, and not exactly for everyone... that is, they can be, but they could also scare a novice at the same time.

That's fair, that's fair! I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I just try to be careful about "potential" talk when it comes to game difficulty. I do think there is a kind of inherent intrigue to a game that's brutally hard and excellently designed, though-- it's not a common thing with single-player games. I think shmups are in an interesting place when it comes to that sort of thing.

Against all odds not a single Konami shooter is on there, not even the Cave one. Compile's entire catalogue got completely frozen out by the danmaku supremacists. Technosoft too, looking back TF3 was the top game on these lists for years. Don't even ask about Hudson or Kaneko.

...This makes me wonder. Would there be any demand for expanding the size of the list? Top 30, maybe Top 40? Digging around these forums, I've seen so many miscellaneous mentions of seemingly well-respected shmups that have hardly even gotten a whiff of HMs, much less the Top 25, so it's not like there's a lack of good games to vote for.

[Air Master Burst]

But it's still a less fun world when not a single Aleste or Star Soldier or Thunder or even Gradius title title gets any kind of recognition.

This would be like 75% of my list right here. I'm such a dinosaur I should be getting shot up by those fucking biplanes on Prehistoric Isle. Shmups as a genre got nWo'd by bullet hells back in the 90s and I'm basically Arn Anderson.

I did 1CC Ikaruga back in the day, though. And I enjoy ESP Ra.De., even if I kinda suck at it.

[Sengoku Strider]

...This makes me wonder. Would there be any demand for expanding the size of the list? Top 30, maybe Top 40? Digging around these forums, I've seen so many miscellaneous mentions of seemingly well-respected shmups that have hardly even gotten a whiff of HMs, much less the Top 25, so it's not like there's a lack of good games to vote for.

Part of the issue with that would be the sample size. I think he only got 60 or so respondents for this list, so many of those games that barely made HM would be something with just one or two votes. This is the list for this community, if you asked on r/retrogaming or something you'd get a very different results. For sure you'd probably get Musha up there, but there's something to be said for the fact that a bunch of people who play the genre seriously and understand scoring mechanics instead of just shuffling through their ROM folder on a Sunday afternoon keep coming back to Garegga and the Cave and Treasure stuff.

That doesn't mean there isn't stuff that's worth pointing out though, I wonder how many people giving themselves migraines banging their head against some of these brutal games for score would fall in love with caravan shooters if they had more visibility in the community in general. There's some boring or insubstantial ones, but there's some real gold like Soldier Blade and imo Nexzr that are much more digestible and enjoyable score chases than some of this stuff might be for a lot of people.

[samspot]

There's some boring or insubstantial ones, but there's some real gold like Soldier Blade and imo Nexzr that are much more digestible and enjoyable score chases than some of this stuff might be for a lot of people.

Thanks for this. I’ve been wanting to try playing a game for score. But the games I’ve focused on are either too difficult, or have some scoring mechanics I don’t want to engage with, or both.

[SPM]

I’ve been wanting to try playing a game for score. But the games I’ve focused on are either too difficult, or have some scoring mechanics I don’t want to engage with, or both.

I love exploring mechanics in shmups and that includes scoring. My advice: go for "light scoring" and only engage with the mechanics you enjoy the way you want to regardless of how optimal or not they are (and if the game is too hard, do so on the easier parts like the early stages once you feel more comfortable surviving).

Obviously you won't be competitive against top scorers but that's usually not important for most, especially at the beginning. Just play for score against yourself, climbing up a leaderboard (improving your position wherever it may be) or compete with others you may agree with, setting some rules ^^

[kapperoni]

How is there not a single Konami/Gradius shooter on this list? It's like not having a Mario game on best platformer list (and I don't even like Mario). In a Gradius game you're actually going on an ADVENTURE, whereas in a CAVE game you're dodging blue/pink vomit.

Look, CAVE games are fun & all, but we have to stop treating them like they're the be-all and end-all of the genre. It's a creative dead end. There's only so many ways you can do the vomit before it starts to get old. It becomes visually NAUSEATING to look at after a while. (Also what is with CAVE's obsession with tanks moving diagonally across a road, I've never seen anybody mention this before lol)

[Some-Mist]

B-b-but you’re in a tank, you don’t need to abide by traffic laws!

[Lemnear]

How is there not a single Konami/Gradius shooter on this list? It's like not having a Mario game on best platformer list (and I don't even like Mario). In a Gradius game you're actually going on an ADVENTURE, whereas in a CAVE game you're dodging blue/pink vomit.

Look, CAVE games are fun & all, but we have to stop treating them like they're the be-all and end-all of the genre. It's a creative dead end. There's only so many ways you can do the vomit before it starts to get old. It becomes visually NAUSEATING to look at after a while. (Also what is with CAVE's obsession with tanks moving diagonally across a road, I've never seen anybody mention this before lol)

I think everything changes with demographic advancement...one day the TOP25 will be full of mediocre games and this culture will be lost, i don't see many new recruits.
I also noticed that a lot of people refer to the result of this ranking when setting up RetroArch//DuckStation etc.
Not to mention that the SHMUPS//STG schools of thought and styles are not few... and some are already NOW very niche...

[samspot]

Anybody have links to old results? Oldest I find is the 5th viewtopic.php?t=14079

[dmk1198]

Each years has links to previous year in first post

[Ice Beam]

Anybody have links to old results? Oldest I find is the 5th viewtopic.php?t=14079

Each years has links to previous year in first post

Links to all years are posted in the discussion thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72649

Shmup farm got reset/zapped in 2005, so posts before that year won't exist.

[samspot]

Thanks! My mistake for focusing on the results threads.

[To Far Away Times]

Going to quote this ancient post:

Alas, I'd also forgotten that I never posted the results of the spring 2003 poll -- it's not technically a poll through 2002, but it's reasonably close...and is the first one. Note that I used a different method to calculate the honorable mention games that time around (though I don't at the moment recall what it was.)


Top 25 Shmups of all time "Through 2002"

01) Do Don Pachi
02) Thunderforce III
03) Ikaruga
04) ESP ra.de.
05) Strikers 1945 II
06) M.U.S.H.A. / Musha Aleste
07) Don Pachi
08) Soldier Blade
09) Battle Garegga
10) Radiant Silvergun
11) Gradius III (SNES)
12) R-Type
13) Guwange
14) Axelay
15) Gate of Thunder
16) Thunderforce IV
17) Blazing Lazers / Gunhed
18) Thunderforce V
19) Mars Matrix
20) Soukyugurentai
21) Gunbird:
22) Sengoku Blade
23) Lords of Thunder
24) Gradius Gaiden
25) Gunbird 2


----------------------------------------
Honorable Mention (alphabetical):
----------------------------------------
Batsugun
Blazing Star
Einhander
Gradius
Parodius-Da!
R-Type Delta
Space Megaforce / Super Aleste
Zanac Neo

Granted, some of the biggest games like DDP DOJ and Mushi Futari hadn't even been released yet, but I like this list way more than the newer ones.

I dislike the notion that console shmups are lesser than arcade shmups that has taken over on this forum, where we only vote for the Top 25 variations of DoDonPachi. A console game like Thunderforce III, which absolutely crushes everything it sets out to do (visuals, music, fast placed game play, easy but engaging difficulty level) is absolutely a better and more entertaining game than CAVE's 12th variation of DoDonPachi. I've 1CC'd Thunderforce III on eight separate occasions, just because it's so damn fun to revisit and go on that journey even when there's nothing new to accomplish. In my mind, a game should be evaluated based on what it sets out to do, how well it accomplishes that goal, and how fun it is at all times. If a console environment means more forgiving gameplay instead of kicking the player off the machine ASAP, then so be it. It's not a flaw to design around console expectations.

Garegga being such a messy game at number 1 is also something that has always bothered me. The top spots should be reserved for games that are immaculate in all aspects with no glaring weaknesses, (or if you prefer, landmark games that changed the genre). We have no shortage of great games to choose from. A game that requires suiciding for rank control (a big no-no for every other game, but somehow gets a pass here) and has some of the worst bullet visibility issues in the genre should not be #1. Here it's placement is more reasonable to me, at least it's not a perennial #1 over games like Mushi Futari or DDP DOJ, though I still think it's a bit high.