influential innovations, beginning with a list this time

[LUNardei]

It would be great if someone put a timeline in the first post of this thread!

What do you mean, exactly? I can add something if you like.

For example:

1894 - piercing weapon (Gradius VIII)
1901 - bomb that don't explode (Esp.Buruburu)
1907 - ...

[professor ganson]

Yeah, that might be a good way to organize the info here. I have to finish my grading and getting ready for the holidays just now, but this sounds like a good idea.

[Blue]

A few more innovations that I'd like to see the origins of:
- Selecting between different ships/characters with different atrributes

Side Arms.
(Different fused weapons available on 1P and 2P ships, respectively.)

Side Arms it is. What about the later idea of choosing between ships with different primary weapons and / or movement speed?
Batsugun (1993)?

[CIT]

What about the later idea of choosing between ships with different primary weapons and / or movement speed?
Batsugun (1993)?

Neo Rasa had already posted this, and I also believe SNK's Sky Adventure ('89) was the first with different ships with different weapons and speeds, etc.

Destructible boss parts? Probably R-Type. I certainly cannot think of anything older that had bosses that could be systematically taken apart by the player.

Compile's Zanac, which was released for MSX one year before R-Type.

Zanac was the first shmup with the "numbered" power-up system wasn't it?

Tehkan(=Tecmo)'s Star Force ('84) had numbered power ups before Zanac.

A couple of new question:

- First shooter to allow you to change the direction of shot (a la Zero Gunner 2)?

[Actually, now that I think of it, I believe it must have been Asteroids.]

- First shooter with collectible Bonus point items.

- First shooter with no cuts between levels? (Tatsujin?)

- First shooter with non-aircraft "ship"? (Kiki Kaikai?)

- First cute 'em up? (Twinbee?)

[Shatterhand]

If you are going to say Kiki Kaikai, you'd beter say Commando then, as one is as shmupy as the other ,and Commando is older. I don't think either game qualify as a shmup

Swiv on Amiga had no cut between stages (The game played very much like one big stage), but I am not sure what came first, Swiv or Truxton.

And exactly what would count as a "cut" between stages? Hype on MSX had stages, but the game never stops. The game has a starfield scrolling in the background, and between stages all you have is a quick "hyperspace" effect (But enemies are STILL attacking you, the action never stops), and the game has no bosses.... Hype is from 1987 if I remember correctly.

But well, Zanac on MSX, the only "cut" between stages were the bosses, and this is from 1986.

And now thinking about it... does Xevious "cut" between stages?

[CIT]

And now thinking about it... does Xevious "cut" between stages?

Yeah, good point, it might be Xevious, I'd have to check again tho. Don't remember.

"No cut" would mean that there's no jump in time or space (like the Gradius fade out and fade in of background) or no intermission with an extra score table (like all Cave shooters). One well known example for a shooter with no cuts is Rayforce. The scenery changes A LOT during the course of the game, but you always see the ship flying everywhere.

[Blue]

What about the later idea of choosing between ships with different primary weapons and / or movement speed?
Batsugun (1993)?

Neo Rasa had already posted this, and I also believe SNK's Sky Adventure ('89) was the first with different ships with different weapons and speeds, etc.

Apologies to Neo Rasa. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, my fault.

[gameoverDude]

I'm sure Dragon Saber introduced the "Lay off" charge shot. Not shooting for a bit allows a special weapon to charge up, so it can be used the next time you start shooting. Thunder Force IV and Battle Bakraid are two other examples.