Nintendo releasing mini NES HDMI pre-loaded w/ games!

[ApolloBoy]

I judge a product's quality on other factors than its destructibility. You should have determined that by the mention of after Gamecube being where things went downward.

Uhh both my brother's Wii and my own have been rock solid (my brother's owned his since 2007, I picked up mine used at Goodwill so who knows where it had been), so I'm really not sure what you're talking about. My brother's Wii U hasn't had any issues either.

[Guspaz]

Isn't getting a new chip spun like a $500k-1M start-up cost, including the design costs and building the assembly line? Nintendo could do that with a NOAC, and still have to pay something for each chip... Or they could just pay $1-2 a pop for an ARM SoC that's way more than powerful enough to emulate the NES.

They don't have to do much software work either. They already have an ARM NES emulator for the 3DS, and today's $1 ARM SoC (like what you'd find in the $5 Pi Zero) is more powerful than the hardware in the 3DS. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same SoC as the 3DS or New 3DS, since they already have economies of scale.

[ZellSF]

I judge a product's quality on other factors than its destructibility. You should have determined that by the mention of after Gamecube being where things went downward.

Uhh both my brother's Wii and my own have been rock solid (my brother's owned his since 2007, I picked up mine used at Goodwill so who knows where it had been), so I'm really not sure what you're talking about. My brother's Wii U hasn't had any issues either.

Again, that's not how I judge quality of products. Why would I ever use any device but my original Gameboy if I did?

What sort of hardware they use internally is much more important than how easy it is to destroy. And if you still need to ask why I think Nintendo's hardware is awful: compare the specifications of their hardware to the competition.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

[tusecsy]

This thing is just gonna be a stripped down wii vc unit. aka shit vid quality sadly. is pretty cool the direction this puts the company though. maybe well get a true fpga hdmi nes/snes/gba at some point if retro demand gets high enough.

[Guspaz]

The RetroUSB AVS ought to serve that purpose, it's an FPGA NES with HDMI output (720p to simplify scaling), and would appear to be an extremely accurate implementation. It even has some neat extras, like an optional mode that supports additional sprites per scanline, reducing flickering in compatible games. It's physical-cartridge-only, though, since it uses NES and Famicom slots. A SNES would be pretty nice, but I don't think anybody is working on one. Kevtris is planning it with the Zimba 3000, but that's years away.

[tusecsy]

The RetroUSB AVS ought to serve that purpose, it's an FPGA NES with HDMI output (720p to simplify scaling), and would appear to be an extremely accurate implementation. It even has some neat extras, like an optional mode that supports additional sprites per scanline, reducing flickering in compatible games. It's physical-cartridge-only, though, since it uses NES and Famicom slots. A SNES would be pretty nice, but I don't think anybody is working on one. Kevtris is planning it with the Zimba 3000, but that's years away.

The AVS is ugly as hell though, and I'm pretty skeptical about the hardware since they cut corners on the retro controllers they recently released (non-authentic xbox 360 pcbs make the d-pads useless). If the AVS is 100% compatible with no problems its definitely a killer piece of hardware. Still ugly as shit though.

HDMI SNES will blow the world up, it's coming.

[Guspaz]

I agree. I'm really not a fan of the industrial design of the AVS. I think that relatively minor changes would fix it (it's the shape that I dislike the most), but as-is, it's... not great.

I'm a bit confused about your statement regarding controllers, though... He doesn't make controllers, and as far as I know he never has. The closest he ever came years ago was selling some original NES/SNES controllers that he put USB converters in, but he didn't make the controllers themselves. I think you're confusing RetroUSB with somebody else, like maybe Retro-Bit? There is no relation there.

For clarification, RetroUSB is one guy, the person behind the NES PowerPak.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's cute. I think it'll sale well, just because of that.

30 games is sparse, considering how many huge games the NES had (and compared to similar devices).

Not interested, but I am interested in seeing how well the shell is put together.

[tusecsy]

I agree. I'm really not a fan of the industrial design of the AVS. I think that relatively minor changes would fix it (it's the shape that I dislike the most), but as-is, it's... not great.

I'm a bit confused about your statement regarding controllers, though... He doesn't make controllers, and as far as I know he never has. The closest he ever came years ago was selling some original NES/SNES controllers that he put USB converters in, but he didn't make the controllers themselves. I think you're confusing RetroUSB with somebody else, like maybe Retro-Bit? There is no relation there.

For clarification, RetroUSB is one guy, the person behind the NES PowerPak.

Ahh yes, was confusing the two retros, my mistake. Looking forward to reviews of the AVS it's definitely in my maybe pile lol. Will have to be perfect to replace my modded AVfam though.

I just hope the interface on the mini nes is nice and simple. So sick of the wii menu system, starting to feel very dated.

[Einzelherz]

I judge a product's quality on other factors than its destructibility. You should have determined that by the mention of after Gamecube being where things went downward.

Uhh both my brother's Wii and my own have been rock solid (my brother's owned his since 2007, I picked up mine used at Goodwill so who knows where it had been), so I'm really not sure what you're talking about. My brother's Wii U hasn't had any issues either.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

So your argument is that because Nintendo has always used less than bleeding edge processors in their hardware that they won't use the most expensive up to date chips in their retro NES. For $60. That plays NES games. With two buttons. And 64 or whatever colors.

Okay.

But I'm sure they're tooling up a new production line to make perfect controllers. It would be outlandish to think otherwise.

[Guspaz]

I'm sure Nintendo still has all the original injection moulds for the NES controllers, but a good comparison to make would be the fact that they already did exactly this before with the SNES (SFC) controller: the Club Nintendo limited edition SFC/SNES controller with wiimote plug. IIRC the reviews on those were quite good, but they were never made in large quantities, since they were never made available for retail sale.

[bobrocks95]

What sort of hardware they use internally is much more important than how easy it is to destroy. And if you still need to ask why I think Nintendo's hardware is awful: compare the specifications of their hardware to the competition.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

The PS2 had the worst hardware of that generation by a significant margin, and it's the best-selling console in history.

Sony clearly does not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit (in your worldview).

[ZellSF]

What sort of hardware they use internally is much more important than how easy it is to destroy. And if you still need to ask why I think Nintendo's hardware is awful: compare the specifications of their hardware to the competition.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

The PS2 had the worst hardware of that generation by a significant margin, and it's the best-selling console in history.

Sony clearly does not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit (in your worldview).

I think most people would agree with me that the PS2 hardware was not quality, certainly not in comparison to the competition.

Really no clue where you're going with this. Are you saying Nintendo will change like Sony did? Well I hope you're right, but I doubt it'll be for 70$ shovelware hardware.

So your argument is that because Nintendo has always used less than bleeding edge processors in their hardware that they won't use the most expensive up to date chips in their retro NES. For $60. That plays NES games. With two buttons. And 64 or whatever colors.

Okay.

But I'm sure they're tooling up a new production line to make perfect controllers. It would be outlandish to think otherwise.

Fully recreating the NES hardware is a bit more complicated than making controllers.

[ApolloBoy]

What sort of hardware they use internally is much more important than how easy it is to destroy. And if you still need to ask why I think Nintendo's hardware is awful: compare the specifications of their hardware to the competition.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

So? I don't really give a fuck how powerful the hardware is compared to the competition, if a system's got plenty of great games I'm going for it.

[ZellSF]

What sort of hardware they use internally is much more important than how easy it is to destroy. And if you still need to ask why I think Nintendo's hardware is awful: compare the specifications of their hardware to the competition.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

So? I don't really give a fuck how powerful the hardware is compared to the competition, if a system's got plenty of great games I'm going for it.

Then this system got 30 of them for you.

I was talking to the people who were hoping this would be accurate NES clone hardware that their expectations do not line up with Nintendo's current quality standards.

Not the people who just want 30 games and who cares how shitty they run.

[ApolloBoy]

Then this system got 30 of them for you.

I was talking about game consoles in general really, and especially since you made this more about Nintendo systems post-GameCube rather than just focusing on the NES mini...

[ZellSF]

Then this system got 30 of them for you.

I was talking about game consoles in general really, and especially since you made this more about Nintendo systems post-GameCube rather than just focusing on the NES mini...

A comment that was talking strictly about hardware quality, not gaming library quality. Or sales or whatever else you think I was talking about despite me never mentioning it at all.

[tusecsy]

Then this system got 30 of them for you.

I was talking about game consoles in general really, and especially since you made this more about Nintendo systems post-GameCube rather than just focusing on the NES mini...

The only major console in history i would consider cheap garbage was the 360 and that was just due to a simple design flaw. I still have my original PS2 I don't see the problem there. You only seem to get garbage hardware with 3rd party stuff. Sony & Nintendo have always been solid as a rock, I don't see why this would be any different.

If they didn't care at all about quality they definitely wouldn't be using HDMI for instance. But thinking this thing will have anything other than a stripped down wii vc on the software end is probably dreaming (sadly I'm one of them).

[ZellSF]

Then this system got 30 of them for you.

I was talking about game consoles in general really, and especially since you made this more about Nintendo systems post-GameCube rather than just focusing on the NES mini...

The only major console in history i would consider cheap garbage was the 360 and that was just due to a simple design flaw. I still have my original PS2 I don't see the problem there. You only seem to get garbage hardware with 3rd party stuff. Sony & Nintendo have always been solid as a rock, I don't see why this would be any different.

If they didn't care at all about quality they definitely wouldn't be using HDMI for instance. But thinking this thing will have anything other than a stripped down wii vc on the software end is probably dreaming (sadly I'm one of them).

If you're talking about RRoD as what makes the 360s garbage, I'm sure PS2 would be equally garbage because of all its disc read errors.

Unless you're talking about other stupid design decisions where they put price above quality (no HDMI, models without HDD, no bluray, no wifi, nonrechargable controllers).

[FBX]

If you're talking about RRoD as what makes the 360s garbage, I'm sure PS2 would be equally garbage because of all its disc read errors.

I remember going through the problem of PS2 disc read errors, but years later I found simply taking the case apart and swabbing the reader lens with a Q-tip lightly damped in rubbing alcohol made the sucker read like brand new. I've got 3 different fat PS2s that people gave me thinking they were broken, and every one of them simply had a dirty lens. Of course the thing being you have to break the warranty sticker to get to get inside and clean the lens properly, which is why I was hesitant to do it back when the warranty was still valid. But flash forward 15 years and I'm like "WTF, it's not like I'm risking anything" and cleaned them all into new working order.

[Guspaz]

(no HDMI, models without HDD, no bluray, no wifi, nonrechargable controllers).

All of those were legitimate concerns, except the last one: not only was the 360 controller fantastic (apart from the terrible d-pad), but the battery situation was great. It let you choose: rechargeable lithium ion battery pack, rechargeable AAs, or disposable AAs. The convenience of being able to pop out the battery pack and stick a new one in was fantastic, and the PS3's strange restrictions of being unable to recharge controllers when the power was off was just dumb.

Whenever my 360 controller ran out of juice, I just grabbed some fresh Eneloops. Whenever my PS3 controller ran out of juice, the answer was "Well, I guess I'm not using the PS3 anymore." And while my 360/XB1 controllers will probably be good 10 years from now, PS3 controllers will be useless when their batteries wear out (without mod work).

[bobrocks95]

Really no clue where you're going with this. Are you saying Nintendo will change like Sony did? Well I hope you're right, but I doubt it'll be for 70$ shovelware hardware.

As others have already said, my point is that it doesn't really matter how powerful a console is in relation to its competitors, which is your argument against Nintendo making quality products. They play games, pick ones with games you want to play on them.

[Josh128]

Exactly-- quality does not equate to "the fastest" chip or car or whatever. Most of Nintendos products from 20 and 30 years ago still work perfectly fine (with a little cartridge connector cleaning, of course). They generally (with some notable exceptions - -e.g. N64 controller) build things that last. They also build things that work.

Does it do what it is supposed to, without fail, without glitches, everytime? Does it last? That is quality.

A Dodge Charger is a fast car-- WAY faster than a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla-- would you put money down that its more reliable than the little rice burners?? I sure as hell wouldnt. THATS quality.

[atheistgod1999]

I wish they used the original NES controller ports. That way, they'd be adding more NES controllers into circulation like what they're doing with the Gamecube controller.

[tusecsy]

Exactly-- quality does not equate to "the fastest" chip or car or whatever. Most of Nintendos products from 20 and 30 years ago still work perfectly fine (with a little cartridge connector cleaning, of course). They generally (with some notable exceptions - -e.g. N64 controller) build things that last. They also build things that work.

Does it do what it is supposed to, without fail, without glitches, everytime? Does it last? That is quality.

A Dodge Charger is a fast car-- WAY faster than a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla-- would you put money down that its more reliable than the little rice burners?? I sure as hell wouldnt. THATS quality.

Exactly. That's a huge problem in the world today and definitely a huge problem with technology. Everyone thinks that better = newer. This is rarely the case. Music was best in the 60s/70s. Movies were best in the 80s/90s. TV is the best now. Video Games were best in the 80s/90s. Cars were best in the 60s/70s. And the Iphone has gone downhill ever since the Iphone 4 and IOS 6. W

Nintendo is about to dominate gaming for the next 10 years, Pokemon Go by itself is a revolution. This mini is going to be the tip of the iceberg for a new generation to get into retro gaming. Whoever is running the show over there is kicking some serious ass. So rare these days to see a major corp that knows what the fuck they're doing. Sony & Microsoft are in shambles. Yes, the Wii U was a dud but they are obviously pivoting and learning from their mistake.

[kamiboy]

If by movies, you mean Hollywood movies, then you are certainly wrong because they clearly were best in the 70's, while the 80's saw some standouts in certain genres, such as sci-fi, e.g. Blade Runner.

If you mean world cinema then you are very much sadly mistaken. But we digress.

Personally, to go back on track, I wonder whether this new NES is not just a stripped down version of the Wii Hardware. The ports on the thing lead me towards the thought. Besides, they already have thoroughly tested emulation software ready for that platform.

But from a cost point of view I guess it would not make much sense.

[ZellSF]

Really no clue where you're going with this. Are you saying Nintendo will change like Sony did? Well I hope you're right, but I doubt it'll be for 70$ shovelware hardware.

As others have already said, my point is that it doesn't really matter how powerful a console is in relation to its competitors, which is your argument against Nintendo making quality products. They play games, pick ones with games you want to play on them.

Does not relate in any way to any point I was making. The games available on this thing is a known quantity at this point, it's not really that much up for discussion. The quality (not only durability!) of the hardware (and the firmware/software needed to support it) is.

That we can make educated guesses on based on Nintendo's recent (terrible) track record. That's all I'm saying.

Personally, to go back on track, I wonder whether this new NES is not just a stripped down version of the Wii Hardware. The ports on the think lead me towards the thought. Besides, they already have throrougly tested emulation software ready for that platform.

But from a cost point of view I guess it would not make much sense.

I think that actually sounds likely. The Wii parts can't be that expensive to source today, can they? Then you'd have to spend basically no R&D on the software side.

[Unseen]

Again, that's not how I judge quality of products. Why would I ever use any device but my original Gameboy if I did?

What sort of hardware they use internally is much more important than how easy it is to destroy. And if you still need to ask why I think Nintendo's hardware is awful: compare the specifications of their hardware to the competition.

They do not go for quality. They go for cheap, easy profit. That's what I'll believe they'll do here too.

If the (non-)use of available high-power hardware is your metric for quality, then Nintendo dropped the ball already on the original Famicom: They used an 8-bit CPU from 1975 in their system because it was cheap (and could be cloned without getting a license for it), even though a much more powerful 16-bit chip was already available on the market (68000, released 1979)

[kamiboy]

Not really if you know your computing history you'd know that there was a reason why the 68000 CPU, and 16bit processors in general, did not become ubiquitous before the second half of the 80's.

Nintendo would have been out of their mind to launch a 68000 based system in 1983. A better comparison is what Famicom's competitors did. Let's see, the MSX which launched the same year had an 8bit Z80 processor, the PC88 models available in '83 had Z80 based 8-bit processors, the FM-7 had an 8bit processor as did Sharp's X1, and so did the by comparison pathetic SG1000.

In addition, thanks the Famicom's focus on playing games, it had game development specific hardware which meant games made for it were vastly superior to those on all the other mentioned competing PC platforms, including even the 1985, 1988 second and third revisions of the MSX, called 2 and 2+ which encanced its graphical capabilites.

[Einzelherz]

I'm sure Nintendo still has all the original injection moulds for the NES controllers, but a good comparison to make would be the fact that they already did exactly this before with the SNES (SFC) controller: the Club Nintendo limited edition SFC/SNES controller with wiimote plug. IIRC the reviews on those were quite good, but they were never made in large quantities, since they were never made available for retail sale.

I actually doubt they kept the molds since they often wear out and are disposed of, assuming they owned them to begin with. The newer SNES controllers are probably on new aftermarket molds as well, but with Nintendo sourced internals.