What shmups do we have to look forward to in future Mame's?

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Tony Gradius
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Post by Tony Gradius »

pixelcorps wrote:actually, on a more serious note, I believe mame will become more and more broken now that the developers are trying to emulate everything with 100% accuracy as opposed to hacks and shortcuts to get a game working, such as using samples for speech synth generated sounds on some games.

regarding the rom kiddies.. and to be devil's advocate.

I think screaming stupidity about DC and saturn emulation is laughable, but when / if ketsui is released i'll be all over it..

why?

lets face it, it's pretty damn certain that it's never going to be released as a domestic game, so that leaves it in the realm as only available to the people that have enough money to spend crazy money on PCB's.

and even then, CAVE don't see a penny, it goes to the resellers, if you buy it NEW, unused, great.. congratulations, you've just bought something for a high price because it was intended to have a return from the players
putting money into it in an arcade..

cave saw the sales reports and demographics and decided to release X copies of the game, in the same way that a developer decideds it's not worth releasing "japanese game X" in the US, they make these decisions strategically and make a profit due to these decisions.

so, do you "bend the law" and illegaly use your PCB outside of japan, (a crime in itself, as it states on the copyright warnings) pay a reseller that got his copy from an arcade, that in turn paid in full for the PCB which in turn went to cave, and fulfilled their sales demographics as predicted, or play a game which has now served it's purpose as far as the developer is concerned, and is now merely zooming around the world in it's own fanboy stockmarket fashion, to be sold and resold, coveted and ebayed because its R@RE?

I fully support developer within sane means, I imported mushihimesama, and even bought the soundtrack, as I've done with a lot of games.

sometimes people do come across as a tad self righteous on here, because I can safely say that an extremely high percentage of you have illegal Mp3's DIVX's PS2/XBOX games and copied model kits.

I notice noones all over the hobbyfan.com threads on here (as they produce bootlegs) and nobody seems to complain when people get their "evaluation" copies of doujin games.. and hell these smaller doujin people need more support that any "larger" companies ever did!!

Are these excluded because they aren't shooters?

c'mon guys, don't be so self righteous about one aspect of piracy while rampantly doing another.. I know a lot of people regularly getting on teir high horses about this subject aren't exactly squeaky clean....
Word!

This posting should be pinned to last for eternity.
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Dylan1CC
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Post by Dylan1CC »

edit: and yes, RS is ridiculously overrated. Anal chaining, unskippable cutscenes, typical Treasure BS. Go with Garegga, Batsugun, or Layer Section for a great Saturn shooter.
What Icarus said. So the practice required to get a sense of accomplishment out of RS's chaining system makes you feel frustrated. Big deal. Some people think Garegga's rank system is "anal" too, but is that really fair to the game? I think not. Any game that requires an investment of time to learn the scoring isn't "anal" or "tedious" as long as said scoring system is well designed or at least had a lot of sincere thought put into it by the programmers. And RS and Garegga (both in the upper slots of my top 5 shmups ever, the two games that introduced me to Saturn shmupping along with Souky), IMHO both fit this description.

If RS's chaning and Garegga's rank were anal, they wouldn't offer any kind of feeling of achievment or reward, but they do. So RS's chaining isn't "anal," you just don't like the way it plays and that it takes a long time to learn. It's called personal taste. If it was anal or tedious it would be poorly executed and offer the player nothing in return.
Last edited by Dylan1CC on Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fighter17
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Post by Fighter17 »

About piracy, I do download Saturn games off the internet and play them on a Modded Saturn, why?

1. To play the rare games.
2. To play the shooters that wasn't emulated on MAME yet
3. To try out the games. If I were have the money to purchase the game for real, I wouldn't buy a game that I didn't like. Trying out the games saves me time and money. This reason was very helpful because I almost planning to shell out $100 bucks on RS on ebay. I download the game, burn it on a disc, and try it out. It was a good game and all, but I just didn't like it because the gameplay wasn't really my taste. Instead, I would get all of the Raizing shooters for the Saturn.

Emulation also helps me as well. I made a list of Genesis games that I would like to purchase. I try out all of the games thru the Gens emulator, if I like it, it's on my list. When I play the games on a REAL Genesis, the sound is so different at some places.
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Neon
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Post by Neon »

Dylan1CC wrote:
edit: and yes, RS is ridiculously overrated. Anal chaining, unskippable cutscenes, typical Treasure BS. Go with Garegga, Batsugun, or Layer Section for a great Saturn shooter.
What Icarus said. So the practice required to get a sense of accomplishment out of RS's chaining system makes you feel frustrated. Big deal. Some people think Garegga's rank system is "anal" too, but is that really fair to the game? I think not. Any game that requires an investment of time to learn the scoring isn't "anal" or "tedious" as long as said scoring system is well designed or at least had a lot of sincere thought put into it by the programmers. And RS and Garegga (both in the upper slots of my top 5 shmups ever, the two games that introduced me to Saturn shmupping along with Souky), IMHO both fit this description.

If RS's chaning and Garegga's rank were anal, they wouldn't offer any kind of feeling of achievment or reward, but they do. So RS's chaining isn't "anal," you just don't like the way it plays and that it takes a long time to learn. It's called personal taste. If it was anal or tedious it would be poorly executed and offer the player nothing in return.
I could be wrong about the cutscenes, I haven't tried RS in a long time. Maybe it was Gradius 5 that had the ones you had to watch every time. Either way, what a horrific design flaw. They should be lined up and shot.
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slateman
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Post by slateman »

I own DDP:DOJ, ESPGaluda and Mushihimesama for the PS2.

I've *never* seen a Cave shmup arcade machine. Ever.

Gladly will buy the ports, Arika did a great job on the former 2. I pray that ESPGaludaII comes out on the PS2/3/xbox360, whatever. But for Ketsui, I pray that we get emulation, much like we did Progear earlier this year. I'd *NEVER* have played Guwange, or ESPRa.De. or Progear no Arashi w/out emulation. My experience w/ DDP (second only to DDP3 as the best ever IMO) would have been the saturn/ps1 versions. Ugh.

I'll take the flaming for claiming MAME (or Kawaks for CPS2/Progear!) is great. B/c when I pass out after hours of Cave goodness, all I see is bullet mania. A billion bullets I'd never have seen were it not for wonderful emulation. Not that I pass out in this manner often, but the point is..

KETSUI! I just want to try it.
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~Kid Icarus~
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Post by ~Kid Icarus~ »

Neon wrote:
Dylan1CC wrote:
edit: and yes, RS is ridiculously overrated. Anal chaining, unskippable cutscenes, typical Treasure BS. Go with Garegga, Batsugun, or Layer Section for a great Saturn shooter.
What Icarus said. So the practice required to get a sense of accomplishment out of RS's chaining system makes you feel frustrated. Big deal. Some people think Garegga's rank system is "anal" too, but is that really fair to the game? I think not. Any game that requires an investment of time to learn the scoring isn't "anal" or "tedious" as long as said scoring system is well designed or at least had a lot of sincere thought put into it by the programmers. And RS and Garegga (both in the upper slots of my top 5 shmups ever, the two games that introduced me to Saturn shmupping along with Souky), IMHO both fit this description.

If RS's chaning and Garegga's rank were anal, they wouldn't offer any kind of feeling of achievment or reward, but they do. So RS's chaining isn't "anal," you just don't like the way it plays and that it takes a long time to learn. It's called personal taste. If it was anal or tedious it would be poorly executed and offer the player nothing in return.
I could be wrong about the cutscenes, I haven't tried RS in a long time. Maybe it was Gradius 5 that had the ones you had to watch every time. Either way, what a horrific design flaw. They should be lined up and shot.
You can skip the cutscenes in Radiant Silvergun by pressing start. Gradius V contatins one cut scene just after the start of stage 2 that connot be skipped, but it's like 30 seconds long, so no big deal.

Also, Slateman you put what I was trying to say in much better words. :)
tonto
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Post by tonto »

Oh, thought of another game that I don't think has been mentioned yet that the only hope of people getting to play would be through emulation:

DDP: Campaign Edition

if a board is ever donated or lent to be dumped (yes, i know chances are slim.... very slim...) i think it would be pretty easy to hook up to work in mame.. 2036?
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JBC
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Post by JBC »

Hmm... how long do you think we have until Bee Storm?
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zlk
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Post by zlk »

If I had to guess, we won't see bee storm working properly until 2007 or 2008. There is some snag that the developers can't get around, don't care about working on, or don't want to get around.
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JBC
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Post by JBC »

What about Viper Phase 1 and the Raiden Fighters games>>> i'd LOOOOOVVVVVEEEE to play those again. I miss the way those games feel. It's unexplainable... they aren't like anything else.
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Damocles
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Post by Damocles »

circuitface wrote:What about Viper Phase 1 and the Raiden Fighters games>>> i'd LOOOOOVVVVVEEEE to play those again. I miss the way those games feel. It's unexplainable... they aren't like anything else.
Those are already emulated, though the sound seems to be whacked.
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JBC
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Post by JBC »

I thought the graphics where still fubar? This is in MAME? Which version?
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freddiebamboo
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Post by freddiebamboo »

I think versions after .90 ran the series ok, abeit with a couple of issues

I'm just using the standard mame with a GUI - don't know how it runs on wolfmame etc
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PepsimanVsJoe
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Well

Post by PepsimanVsJoe »

My mame HD has been recently cleaned out so I have nothing to add.

However I think the experience as a whole was worth it. If it wasn't for emulation I'd be a lot poorer than I am now(And also really pissed, not a fan of Radiant Silvergun).
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JBC
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Post by JBC »

HOLY SCHNIEKY EDITION!!! I'm playing Viper finally!!!!
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JBC
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Post by JBC »

Heh... i had to pay tribute to them on my profile at VF so i made this...

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The Raiden Fighters series... more fun than a closet full of bats! Ahh!!! Bats!
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captain ahar
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Post by captain ahar »

i'll have to give it another try, i could only get rfj and rf to work before...

thanks for the encouragement. viper phase always looked like a blast.
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JBC
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Post by JBC »

Remember that on all of them it may take around ten minutes to get started on your first play while the arcade 'updates' :). Once the timer counts down just hit 'tab' and reset the game - you'll be taken straight to the title screen. You won't have to wait it out again... i suppose it saves to the SRAM or something?
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captain ahar
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Post by captain ahar »

yeah, the madness almost took over while i was waiting for jet to load the first time

oO
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landshark
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Post by landshark »

Hit F10 to put it in frame skip mode. This will help the countdown go a little faster. Then hit F10 again once it's over.
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Bloodreign
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Post by Bloodreign »

It wouldn't work for me awhile back, I'd let the timer run all the way down for the update, reset and nothing, and this was MAME 99. Amazingly I opened up MAME 99 again, and now both games boot (had to let 2 update again, reset and voila game time). Can't get MAME to recognize Viper 1 as there though.

Edit: picked up another rom of it, works now.
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gunbird18
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Post by gunbird18 »

slateman wrote:I own DDP:DOJ, ESPGaluda and Mushihimesama for the PS2.

I've *never* seen a Cave shmup arcade machine. Ever.

Gladly will buy the ports, Arika did a great job on the former 2. I pray that ESPGaludaII comes out on the PS2/3/xbox360, whatever. But for Ketsui, I pray that we get emulation, much like we did Progear earlier this year. I'd *NEVER* have played Guwange, or ESPRa.De. or Progear no Arashi w/out emulation. My experience w/ DDP (second only to DDP3 as the best ever IMO) would have been the saturn/ps1 versions. Ugh.

I'll take the flaming for claiming MAME (or Kawaks for CPS2/Progear!) is great. B/c when I pass out after hours of Cave goodness, all I see is bullet mania. A billion bullets I'd never have seen were it not for wonderful emulation. Not that I pass out in this manner often, but the point is..

KETSUI! I just want to try it.
Ditto! Thanks for saving me all the agony of coming up with that post! :lol:
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elvis
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Post by elvis »

shariar07 wrote:I would like to see these shmups on MAME

Fire Barrel (Raiden2 clone very nice)
Double Wings(looks like a cool raiden clone)
Wyvern Wings(Strikers 1945 clone)
Strikers 1945 III
Heavy Barrel
You guys need to check out MAWS:
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/

You can search up-to-date additions of titles to MAME. For example:

Fire Barrel (Status: Preliminary)
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/firebarr

Double Wings (Status: Preliminary)
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/dblewing

Strikers 1945 III (Status: Working)
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/s1945iii

Heavy Barrel (Status: Working)
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/hbarrel

MAWS updates very quickly, and stays up to date with MAME releases including the developer releases between official releases. It uses existing resources and MAME's own XML output to automate the process, and keep information as accurate as possible.

There's also the "Hall of Fame" for each category. For example, the games in the "shooter" genre with the highest votes:
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/srch.php? ... order=desc

And the "Shooting / Flying Vertical" category HoF:
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/srch.php? ... order=desc

An excellent resource for MAME fans. I use it almost daily to search for games, and discover some real gems that I never even knew existed, nor would have even from just stumbling through MAME games myself at random.
Last edited by elvis on Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Damocles
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Post by Damocles »

Elvis speaks the truth. Maws is basically what Mame.dk used to be....except for hosting roms, of course. An excellent reference indeed.
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ST Dragon
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Post by ST Dragon »

Personally I'm more egger to have 100% emulated audio in Macross SDF 1 than emulated RS or Gradius 4, which can easily be played on the Saturn & PS-2.

Macross SDF happens to be one of my all time favorite vertical shooters but audio is not emulated yet! :(

Also it would be cool if the audio in Thunder Dragon 1 (NMK / Tecm0 1991) was properly emulated. The bootleg Rom emulated at the moment uses the music Roms from Raiden :shock:
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yojo!
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Post by yojo! »

ST Dragon wrote: Also it would be cool if the audio in Thunder Dragon 1 (NMK / Tecm0 1991) was properly emulated. The bootleg Rom emulated at the moment uses the music Roms from Raiden :shock:
I actually have the PCB and I think you are better off with the raiden soundtrack...
tonto
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Post by tonto »

http://www.mameworld.net/vlinde/

Gradius IV progress...
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Bloodreign
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Post by Bloodreign »

Tonto beat me to it it seems, now I can play it two ways soon, MAME and on my Gradius 3/4 PS 2 version. :)
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Fighter17
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Post by Fighter17 »

That's cool, Gradius IV is almost emulatable!!
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Neon
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Post by Neon »

Fuck shmups, what's the holdup with System 10 (psx based) emulation?

Driller G and Star Trigon...with emu benefits (savestates etc.)...I'd dump my girlfriend, strangle my friends, and spend all day in front of the PC.
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