Bloodborne

[Necronopticous]

This last week ended up being particularly busy at work, so I haven't put nearly as much time into the game as I'd like, but so far I am absolutely loving it. I've killed about 5 or 6 bosses now, and the last 3 of them I one-shot. Interestingly, I found the first two bosses to be significantly tougher than those that have followed, but the difficulty still seems about right overall. One thing I have found particularly difficult is the hunter v hunter combat (not PVP, but the NPC hunters you sometimes fight). A couple of them have been much more difficult than any of the boss fights thus far (though I suppose the Father Gascoigne technically counts as both).

Another reason that I haven't sunk quite as much time in myself is that my wife liked the aesthetic of this game enough play it. I'm super stoked, since I have tried unsuccessfully in the past to get her interested in the Souls series. She managed to create an amazingly accurate rendition of herself in the character creator, which is awesome and hilarious in-game, and just last night she toppled the Cleric Beast!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh97GuVuksI

Brought a tear to my eye!

[evil_ash_xero]

I know a lot of the later bosses are slower, and more lumbering than the earlier ones, but I'm still having a hard time with them. They pack a punch.
Even Rom killed me a few times. Thing barely moves!

I still think the Blood Starved Beast freaks everyone out, with it's fast and vicious attacks. It's a weird looking thing, but it certainly stands out as a "do you have the balls for this?" test.

[Formless God]

Eh this guy just literally R1 it to death tho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r942UF_cNgM

[KindGrind]

I love the game so far, 3 bosses down.

The heart-pounding you get when you're on the verge of winning these boss fights is a feeling I get only in these games. Quite intense.

The details in the environment are absolutely phenomenal. So far, I find the difficulty just right as well. I don't like that you can't "rest" at lamps, and that if you want to grind you have to go back to the hub and back to the lamp again. Makes grinding more tedious than it should be, especially if you take into consideration the load times you have to have twice.

That minor aside, I always want to go more. I love the level design - actual shortcuts, that were missing from DS2, are back here. Sometimes, you don't beat a boss or get a key item in a session, but unlocking a door or two means progress, and any progress is good in a game like that.

[Marc]

Got my first proper play last night. Given that I turtled my way through the Souls games and never quite mastered parrying... Ouch. Never has a three hour as whipping been so much fun. Unmistakably a Souls game while feeling hugely different thanks to the combat. Looks gorgeous as well.

[iconoclast]

Eh this guy just literally R1 it to death tho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r942UF_cNgM

That's probably because he's fighting a level 25~ boss at level 48. RPGs lol.

[Immryr]

i haven't had as much time as i would have liked to play this game over the last couple of days so i'm just after the blood starved beats, in the unseen village. i'm loving the game o the whole, but here are some random thoughts i've had so far about what changes i've enjoyed and what i'm not as into.


-the nerf to backstabbing is great. no more just circling round every enemy - although i haven't got into it yet this will also really change up pvp for the better.
-the sound design is a big step up from any of the souls games imo. the horrible skittering sounds, footsteps and moans as you're exploring are creepy as fuck.
-level design is great.

-the healing system for me can get a little annoying when you're fighting a boss and you just want to keep running back till you beat him. having to farm up blood vials really interrupts the flow of this. my personal favourite healing system was the first dark souls one. rechargeable estus in limited supply and no consumable healing (other than humanity).
-not being able to rest at lamps
-still prefer roll dodging, but i'm getting more and more used to the dashes. it mainly against fast moving bosses when i would rather be able to roll locked on.

on the whole the negatives are all very, very minor. the game is great and will be even more enjoyable once they patch the loading times!

[CMoon]

Been enjoying this game tremendously. Level design has been extraordinary and quite beautiful; though macabre obviously.


Then I got to the...

Spoiler

forbidden forest--specifically the second half of it along with its bosses. What the hell happened here? Seriously feel like I'm playing a different, inferior game. Overall design is extremely generic and the giant headstones don't really make sense.
RE4 snake headed dudes
Too many enemies; encourages running through level. On the other hand, there are lots of runes, so you probably shouldn't.
Most enemies have too many goddamn hit points, including the small snake enemies. It makes this boring level really slow.
The three bosses are right out of dark souls 2; and in reflection the whole level is very DS2-esque. The best technique I've seen is to just strafe continuously. Blah!

It seems like every 'souls' game has an area or three that doesn't feel fleshed out. Here's my early vote for Forbidden Forest feeling too rushed. Here's an area I'll learn where the best items are and speed-run it.

[Necronopticous]

Then I got to the...

Spoiler

forbidden forest--specifically the second half of it along with its bosses. What the hell happened here? Seriously feel like I'm playing a different, inferior game. Overall design is extremely generic and the giant headstones don't really make sense.
RE4 snake headed dudes
Too many enemies; encourages running through level. On the other hand, there are lots of runes, so you probably shouldn't.
Most enemies have too many goddamn hit points, including the small snake enemies. It makes this boring level really slow.
The three bosses are right out of dark souls 2; and in reflection the whole level is very DS2-esque. The best technique I've seen is to just strafe continuously. Blah!

It seems like every 'souls' game has an area or three that doesn't feel fleshed out. Here's my early vote for Forbidden Forest feeling too rushed. Here's an area I'll learn where the best items are and speed-run it.

Forest area spoilers:

Spoiler

Hmm, while I agree with you that it was definitely a tonal shift, I didn't really think it felt poorly or hastily designed. The layout is intricately winding and I think intentionally confusing, but I decided to clear out the entire area of enemies and just fully explore it and I ended up liking it quite a bit. You mention that you felt the snakes had too many HP, but I was killing them with two quick slashes of my +6 Saw Cleaver. Are you up to date on your weapon upgrades? I didn't find them too annoying, despite their sheer number. They seemed to serve their purpose just as I imagine they were designed--trivial to deal with individually, but a real threat if you get swarmed due to their high damage if they actually hit you, and they're easy to miss if you're rushing or not paying attention as they blend in with the environs.

One interesting thing I liked about this area was that it was the first time where I felt like it was actually really beneficial to have two upgraded weapons (axe & saw cleaver) because the RE4 dudes are a huge pain with a close range weapon like the saw cleaver, but were easily mowed down by the range of the extended axe, and I cut through the snakes with the quickness with the compact saw cleaver. It was nice to have a reason to switch between the two as I cleared the area out. Finally getting to take advantage of the fact that I don't have to worry about encumbrance in this game!

Nothing screamed DS2 to me. I suffered my entire way through that hideous game, and there was no suffering to be had for me here. I thought the boss was cool, and a refreshing switch from hulking Lovecraft beast. I managed to just barely one shot them, which helped in the exhilaration dept.

[CMoon]

Yeah, my axe is at +6. Maybe too spoiled by popcorn enemies earlier? Glad you liked the area. I'm feeling no love for it.

Edit: I finally beat the 'boss' of that area. DAMN!

[Necronopticous]

Well, it might just be because you were using the axe the entire time. I also found it sort of tedious to use on the small fry since even the shortened axe swings are pretty slow when you're doing so many of them in rapid succession. The saw cleaver handled the job much more smoothly, I thought.

[CMoon]

Well, it might just be because you were using the axe the entire time. I also found it sort of tedious to use on the small fry since even the shortened axe swings are pretty slow when you're doing so many of them in rapid succession. The saw cleaver handled the job much more smoothly, I thought.

Could be; my first impression of the axe was that I wanted to switch weapons, but as I pushed through the game, I started seeing why everyone liked it. Obviously I plan on spending a lot of time with this game, and decided to stick it out with this weapon--which is mostly really nice. On 'that level' I mentioned above, I'm just bothered by too many enemies that poison, have grabs, etc. so even if a few swings kill them, you can't afford to stand around and deliver those two or three swings. I'd dodge behind them, but often the enemy placement was pretty dense. I get wanting to mix it up and I don't feel like it is a bad level, but it felt much more run-of-the-mill video game to me. That said, I thought DS2 was worse for the same exact reasons and a lot of people love that game.

[Immryr]

people are already speed running this under one hour

[CMoon]

people are already speed running this under one hour

I don't have a problem with that. Part of what I loved about Dark Souls was you could play it like an arcade game. Hopefully playing it that way is fun.

[Immryr]

I'm just sad cause I'm like 10 hours in and have only killed 3 bosses haha.

[CMoon]

Thing is, I'm 20 hours in, I feel like I've discovered a lot of areas and am past half way through but I haven't found a single covenant and just barely started playing with the chalice dungeons. Coming at this as a souls veteran and being relatively informed, I'm pretty amazed how much there is here.

[evil_ash_xero]

people are already speed running this under one hour

I don't have a problem with that. Part of what I loved about Dark Souls was you could play it like an arcade game. Hopefully playing it that way is fun.

I'm hoping they add DLC, for once. The game seems a little short. I'm sure it has to do with the long development time, and working on a new system.

I had to take a breather from it. I've got a bunch of hours in it (not sure off hand, how many), and I'm just kind of fried from getting killed so much. That sounds weak, but I just got Evil Within recently, and the DLC, so that took me about 20 some hours, and I died over 200 times.
Not to mention, this game just hit a big difficulty spike. I'm in Unseen..whatever whatever, and it's just murder.

Also, my eyesight is getting wonky from staring at the TV for so long. I mean, I would sit there for 10 hours straight playing this. Damn you, Miyazaki!

[iconoclast]

It's like I'm really playing Dark Souls 2!
(Darkbeast Paarl spoiler)

[Cata]

I still think the Blood Starved Beast freaks everyone out, with it's fast and vicious attacks. It's a weird looking thing, but it certainly stands out as a "do you have the balls for this?" test.

It's weird because the Cleric Beast took me 20-30 tries to beat, Father G about 40 and then I went and beat the Blood Starved Beast first try

Also, I never seem to use my transformed saw cleaver. Maybe I've become just too comfortable with being much closer to enemies. I know it lets you stand back a bit farther but to me the speed difference is too much. I wonder if anyone else has stuck to just one form or if I should be implementing a mix of both for more effective play

[iconoclast]

I used the Threaded Cane until I got the Rifle Spear, and I'd switch between the cane and whip form pretty often. Both have their advantages depending on the situation, but for the rifle, there's no reason to use anything but the 2-handed mode imo. The thrust attack on it is stupidly good.

[Cagar]

I found Blood-starved beast very easy too. I admit that I was overleveled too, but I've never found its' attacks hard to dodge

[Immryr]

Yep blood starved beast was the easiest of the four bosses so far for me.


-edit- I'm finding vicar Amelia really difficult, probably as hard as I found manus. I'm not really sure how to approach the fight. If I keep her in front of me I rarely find openings to attack and if I circle behind her to attack I can't see what she's doing.

[CMoon]

Yeah, people are having really different experiences with the bosses. It is worth noting that you don't even have to fight cleric or blood-starved beast, nor do you have to rush in and fight Vicar Amelia. The boss of the Hemwick area is probably the easiest in the game and so it might be worth going that route before Blood starved & Amelia. A lot of basic enemies give fair experience, so maybe going through in a different order to gain levels and material might be helpful. For instance, Hemwick and its boss might be worth completing before Old Yarnam because the boss is significantly easier and there is a fair amount of upgrade material.

Oh yeah, as far as Amelia, you definitely want to stay behind her. I found it one of the easier fights.

[cave hermit]

Actually, what is the point in fighting the Cleric Beast anyway?

All I've noticed from beating him is another lantern checkpoint and a few extra items in the Hunter's Dream shop.

[evil_ash_xero]

People really ARE having big differences with the bosses. Most people on GameFAQs shit their pants, when they fought BSB. I had a tough time with him, but by the time I got to the Vicar, I didn't have that hard of a way to go. But a lot of people point that out as a really tough fight, and I can see why.

I was surprised by the difficulty that I had with the Shadows of..whatever, in the woods. I had a really hard time with them, until I wore some flame resistant gear. I was really surprised by Rom, as he moved about as much as a potato that fell off the counter. But I was dying while he was dying. And luckily, it saved, and I didn't have to fight him more. I probably fought him about 5 times, maybe.

The King is the forgotten Castle, or whatever it was called, I saw a guy just rape this dude, first time. And I had a really hard time with him.
Granted, I had to lower my insight, because it was way high, and I did notice things drop from "REALLY FREAKING HARD" to just "FREAKING HARD".

I do wonder if anyone had a hard time with the Witch, because that was really easy. You could die, but it would come from not being on top of things.

It varies. However, the Unseen Village or whatever, is such a pain in the ass. And I think I'm doing the easy version of it (there's two ways to get there, I hear). But it's still a pain in the ass.

I mean, I'm all for it. I'm just a little worn down. I want to try out a couple other weapons, but I have spent so much time leveling up, that I haven't really gotten the opportunity. Also, I am definitely missing a lot of NPCs, on my first playthrough. I have read of a few more, but they are unavailable to me now.

Interesting stuff. I have no idea what's up, with the story yet. It's a weird one.

[Immryr]

Having high insight makes things harder?!?

[CMoon]

Having high insight makes things harder?!?

Seems that way.

However, the Unseen Village or whatever, is such a pain in the ass. And I think I'm doing the easy version of it (there's two ways to get there, I hear). But it's still a pain in the ass.

I finally realized how to get to the unseen village, but didn't find it a pain at all...probably overleveled. Arcane builds will want to go here early, and it might really be a pain in the ass then. I'm sure I'm missing something because there was an elevator to nowhere and a couple doors I couldn't open. Hmmm...

Edit: OK, I wasn't in the unseen village proper. Seems I just have to beat Rom before I can access a lot of these other areas.

And yeah, I'm having a lot of problems with Rom for whatever reason. Trying to do some other things before I go back there.

[Necronopticous]

It's like I'm really playing Dark Souls 2!
(Darkbeast Paarl spoiler)

That's nuts! I have yet to experience anything like that yet. I will say, however, that some attacks seem to have a splash effect, which makes them hard/nearly impossible to roll through with invincibility frames like most attacks, because the splash effect seems slightly delayed, and has a greater area than the original attack. One example of this was Vicar Amelia's secondary jump attack. I took advantage of her primary jump attack that she does from the beginning to dash in, get a few hits in, and dash out, but when I tried to do the same for her jump slam attack that she starts doing once she takes some damage it wasn't nearly as easy to do the same due to the slam/splash effect. The same might be true for the attack in your vid, but it still looks ridiculous there.

Also, I never seem to use my transformed saw cleaver. Maybe I've become just too comfortable with being much closer to enemies. I know it lets you stand back a bit farther but to me the speed difference is too much. I wonder if anyone else has stuck to just one form or if I should be implementing a mix of both for more effective play

I also almost never use my transformed saw clever directly, however, I use the shit out of the transformation attack. Actually, I think it is one of the greatest strengths of the weapon. Huge damage, comes out fast, and can be chained forward and backward in combos, after rolls, etc. Figuring out how to use that early on changed the entire dynamic of the weapon for me.

I'm having a lot of problems with Rom for whatever reason. Trying to do some other things before I go back there.

I finally beat Rom last night, but I wiped on him for like 2 hours the night before. I haven't been reading anything for fear of spoiling myself, but is there anyone not having trouble with him? Maybe I just had the completely wrong approach, but I found this to be one of the hardest bosses yet to appear in any of From's games. I have been one-shotting bosses left and right, and then this was just a complete wall for me.

Rom spoilers:

Spoiler

There are so many things to focus on at once. You have to maintain the perfect distance to Rom to keep triggering his close attacks and immediately get away when he starts using them. You don't want to be too far away or he'll spam the ranged missile attack which (as far as I could tell from 2 hours of attempts) seems completely undodgeable 50% of the time, and might one shot you from full health if you get unlucky and hit by 2 or 3 missiles in a row. The whole time you're dealing with the horde of mini spiders which are tricky to kill while clustered and can also one or two shot you with certain attacks. Sometimes Rom will even use the ranged missile attack when you're close, which I don't understand at all, and which killed me numerous times. I tried going the full arcane resist route but it didn't really help as much as I expected. The strategy I finally settled on was clearing the spider group in phase 1 and phase 2 completely, then just rushing him with bolt paper in phase 3 while evading the final group of spiders. I eventually won this way, but it was not easy. Unless there's a trick which trivializes the fight, I'm thinking this will be a huge barrier for people who are not Souls veterans. R3 targeting hell.

[CMoon]

I finally beat Rom last night, but I wiped on him for like 2 hours the night before. I haven't been reading anything for fear of spoiling myself, but is there anyone not having trouble with him? Maybe I just had the completely wrong approach, but I found this to be one of the hardest bosses yet to appear in any of From's games. I have been one-shotting bosses left and right, and then this was just a complete wall for me.

Rom spoilers:

Spoiler

There are so many things to focus on at once. You have to maintain the perfect distance to Rom to keep triggering his close attacks and immediately get away when he starts using them. You don't want to be too far away or he'll spam the ranged missile attack which (as far as I could tell from 2 hours of attempts) seems completely undodgeable 50% of the time, and might one shot you from full health if you get unlucky and hit by 2 or 3 missiles in a row. The whole time you're dealing with the horde of mini spiders which are tricky to kill while clustered and can also one or two shot you with certain attacks. Sometimes Rom will even use the ranged missile attack when you're close, which I don't understand at all, and which killed me numerous times. I tried going the full arcane resist route but it didn't really help as much as I expected. The strategy I finally settled on was clearing the spider group in phase 1 and phase 2 completely, then just rushing him with bolt paper in phase 3 while evading the final group of spiders. I eventually won this way, but it was not easy. Unless there's a trick which trivializes the fight, I'm thinking this will be a huge barrier for people who are not Souls veterans. R3 targeting hell.

I just beat him now and you pretty much sum it up. I don't know if there is anyway to get through this without a lot of vials. As you point out, your constantly switching between locked on and not-locked on. You can lure the small enemies to do their jump attack or try to get behind them and take the out, but you're just as likely to get by rom's attacks in the process. The most annoying part is the run to this boss produced no vials, and often the last phase turns into a coin toss whether you survive or not. If not, plan on having to go back and farm vials.

And here is the game mechanic question about dark vs demon souls/bloodborne. Estus or Grass/vials? I ultimately find myself liking Estus. With the idea of estus in mind, the designers built the game around it. With vials/grass, if you are challenging a boss again and again--even if you use only 2-3 vials--you're ultimately gonna have to run out and start farming. Maybe in demon's souls this wasn't such a huge issue because of sword&board, and there's a whole different argument about how one should just 'git gud' and not get hit, etc. It also stands that there is no death penalty (unlike in souls games), so it is really your choice whether to use vials or not. Until you come up against a boss, I don't think the vial system is bad at all...but with Rom it made it clear to me where the system breaks down.

[Necronopticous]

I'm not excited about fighting Rom in my obligatory level 4 game.

And here is the game mechanic question about dark vs demon souls/bloodborne. Estus or Grass/vials?

In general, I find that Bloodborne is clearly made to cater to fans of Demon's and Dark Souls equally. In almost every design decision they take a hybrid stance which splits the difference between the two games. Most of the time I think they did a very good job with this, but in this particular case I just think the Estus solution was purely better from a game design perspective, so even partially bringing back the grass design is a negative for me overall. They did cap the vials that you can carry at any given time at 20, which addresses the problem of hoarding a near infinite amount of recovery consumables to cheese your way through difficult encounters, but it still isn't nearly as tightly controlled as the checkpoint-recharged Estus flasks. I also don't like that enemy loot tables throughout the entire game are laden with boring blood vial drops (even Demon's Souls was slightly more interesting in this respect since there were at least a variety of grasses). Having to take a break from a boss or difficult area to farm vials sucks, as does being completely full on them and having to get a notification message 80% of the time you try to pick up a drop telling you that you're full. This is one area that could have done without the hybrid approach. Estus was pretty much a perfect system as far as I'm concerned, and I think they could have re-implemented it in this game simply by adding an additional menu option at the lanterns to recharge/refresh enemies like the bonfires of Dark Souls did by default. This would also save you from the atrocious load time of having to currently refresh enemies for farming by teleporting to the Hunter's Dream and back.