Oh yuck

[Mortificator]

Of course, Terminator 2 Sarah Connor only ended up in that mental facility by being a total dumbass. Terminator 1 Sarah Connor would still be laying low while building resources and connections for the war she knows is inevitable, and even if another assassin was sent back, it wouldn't know where to start looking for John.

[Skykid]

I still wonder why Titanic is so sorely looked upon by people in afterthought: it's a very fun, well made popcorn movie with plenty of excitement and drama.

This is exactly what I mean.

[Sinful]

Of course, Terminator 2 Sarah Connor only ended up in that mental facility by being a total dumbass. Terminator 1 Sarah Connor would still be laying low while building resources and connections for the war she knows is inevitable, and even if another assassin was sent back, it wouldn't know where to start looking for John.

She was written like that because the actress Linda Hamilton requested to be written as insane. Wasn't hard for her to influence James Cameron since they were like married by then or something. But your post does bring an interesting speculation as to what the script would have been like if not for this request and how T2 would of turned out with how you laid it to be more in tone with T1 Sarah Conner.

But I will say this, those hospital scenes when the Terminators arrive were awesome.

[Opus131]

It made no sense for her to be so insane since she never experienced the aftermath of the war. She was basically trying to be the Reese character all over again but it made no sense for her to be so, and Reese was never crazy to begin with.

And i can also well imagine how much influence she had in the film. The third wave feminist screed she spouts after she tries to kill the black programmer was totally her. And Furlong had the best reaction too (mom, pipe down the crazy, would ya).

[BryanM]

Terminator 2 with a reasonable no-drama Linda: 2 hours of Linda and her son having picnics and shooting at stuff.

Then humanity dies during the war because her son is a little twerp who didn't believe in helpful murderbots and never gained the necessary EXP points to level up above a wienie.

Cameron was just promoting he's buddy, Arnold's, new Terminator with with Genisys. So of course he's going to praise it regardless of how trash it is.

Oh yeah, these millionaires are contractually obligated not to diminish the profit of this stuff whatsoever. Everything they say is an ad. They're gangsters all in it together.

she's able to escape by starting with that clip

That shot where she's a picking a door's lock is cut in some countries for being somewhat realistic: dat torque.

Movies need more torque.

[Ed Oscuro]

Movies need more torque.

I gotta admit, I thought of the Alien head-bursting APC tire scene from Aliens, couldn't place the screenie at first. Another Arnold classic with an ultimately straightforward plot (in just the ways that matter).

RE: Sarah going bonkers, well, I guess it was supposed to be the responsibility getting to her. That does seem to be at odds with her obvious capability, and in the end the whole plot point was manufactured to meet a few ends (more action scene padding of the classic "everybody sleepwalking to the apocalypse but the bad guys;" perhaps a bit of sex appeal, perhaps a bit of feminism). tbh I don't care about that all that much. Nor Furlong and Arnie's relationship, when you get to it; I'd rather have obvious pandering than just a complete lack of attention to the human interest story which almost all works ultimately boil down to.

[Mischief Maker]

I like everything about T2. Not necessarily love, but definitely like.

It's an inferior movie to the original, no doubt, but if you're looking to be offended and roll your eyes at feminazi mary sues, you would have been doing that even if she was a damsel in distress the whole film.

Sarah Connor's mother and all the friends in her address book are dead at the hands of the terminator. Everyone else she knows is going to die. When she tries to warn friends and loved ones about the coming apocalypse they say she's crazy and leave her. Of course this would drive her insane. I'd think the nightmare where she's banging on the fence and trying to warn her younger self but nobody hears should have hammered this point home pretty clearly.

I liked Eddie Furlong and the Terminator's relationship because his childlike joy at having his own killer robot is immediately and repeatedly shattered when he realizes just how dangerous his murder bot truly is.

Ahnold developing a personality is explained by the one deleted scene that remained back in the film where they remove a jumper pin from his CPU to enable learning (and a pretty nifty special effect involving Linda Hamilton's identical twin sister).

And it's the last of the great big budget practical effects movies before the 90s had Ahnold shooting at horrible CGI crocodiles in Eraser.

I gotta admit, I thought of the Alien head-bursting APC tire scene from Aliens, couldn't place the screenie at first. Another Arnold classic with an ultimately straightforward plot (in just the ways that matter).

Ahnold was not in Aliens. You must be thinking of Predator.

[Ed Oscuro]

I know, it's just a reaction to seeing an APC + torque mentioned at the same time. Screencap is from yet another Arnold flick of course.

And yeah I admit the anti-nostalgia is getting heavy in here. I wouldn't call T2 one of the greatest flicks of all time but I don't think the subplots are offensively bad. The anti-Hamilton stuff has me shaking my head - people in the normal world go crazy, who is a critic to say they know exactly how a character would act? Some people buy too heavily into the convention that you should be able to figure everything in a movie out from clues up to that point, as if it was a classic detective novel; but it's just a convention. In any case I agree with your reading about Connor's character. What I think doesn't make as much sense is the way in which they portray her, but again, it's easy to suspend belief up to this point (after all, in Them! the government covers up giant ants flying across the country and it's a good thing).

[GaijinPunch]

I
And it's the last of the great big budget practical effects movies before the 90s had Ahnold shooting at horrible CGI crocodiles in Eraser.

And ironically I think T2 did the liquid metal effect so well, it boosted the CGI cause.

[Mortificator]

Sarah Connor's mother and all the friends in her address book are dead at the hands of the terminator. Everyone else she knows is going to die. When she tries to warn friends and loved ones about the coming apocalypse they say she's crazy and leave her. Of course this would drive her insane.

T2 Sarah Connor isn't portrayed as insane. She's institutionalized for a story that sounds crazy without corroboration, not for actually being crazy. The criticism in my earlier post was that T2 Sarah is dumb. What got her arrested in the first place was attacking a computer factory like a beefhead. That's extremely risky, has very little chance of stopping Skynet even if successful, and jeopardizes the son who she knows really can be used to stop Skynet.

And not to be a downer, but everyone you know is going to die too. That's usually how it works. It hasn't driven you insane (I think).

Some people buy too heavily into the convention that you should be able to figure everything in a movie out from clues up to that point, as if it was a classic detective novel

It's not about clues. The Terminator's narrative was that Sarah's been through a horrifying experience, but has the strength & resourcefulness to weather the coming storm and ultimately save humanity. Judgment Day's narrative is that no she doesn't, it's really Arnie. Hasta la vista, baby.

But I will say this, those hospital scenes when the Terminators arrive were awesome.

That, at least, I can't complain about. There are some very cool scenes in T2; unfortunately, the plot between them is both sophomoric and antithetical to the original work.

[Squire Grooktook]

Not even a big fan of T2 but

nd not to be a downer, but everyone you know is going to die too. That's usually how it works. It hasn't driven you insane (I think).

There's this thing we call "context" you see...

[Ed Oscuro]

It's not about clues. The Terminator's narrative was that Sarah's been through a horrifying experience, but has the strength & resourcefulness to weather the coming storm and ultimately save humanity. Judgment Day's narrative is that no she doesn't, it's really Arnie. Hasta la vista, baby.

Hmm, you make a good argument there.

Again, this can be chalked up to the business decision of having Arnie star. In that light, what's left for Hamilton starts to look like a consolation prize. A bad one at that.

Hypothetical question time: What if T2 was about Sarah Connor's fight against Skynet? I think it would easily have made for a better story, so long as it wasn't Alien 3'd.

[BryanM]

The Sarah Connor Chronicles?

I like how the ending involved kicking over an Apple II. If only scifi was a thing that was economically viable, could've seen'em kick over an Apple III.

[BIL]

re: Space Wasps Monogatari, I'm long past giving a rat mother fuck about any of this hyper-extended canon rubbish (have you fucking seen Aliens: Colonial Marines? JFC I got caught up over the weekend and was crying and dying! ). Now the theory nerds are going crazy over backbursters, throatbursters and presumably wienerbursters, how interesting. How about a fannyburster? No c-section this time, just an exploding fanny in 3D. I'm thinking a flying placenta, cartwheeling towards the front row.

At this point I just want them to stop beating around the bush so when they wheel out the usual "guess what gang? an evil space corporation was after the Alien's deadly wares all this time!" shtick, it's an exact adaptation of Alien 3: The Gun's final showdown.

Spoiler

I admire its purity.