America's struggle for racial harmony: myth or reality?

[louisg]

Very true. Some of the good folk on The Truth About Guns have been assassinating Martin's case with glee.

During the trial the defense attempted to use the possibility of Martin having marijuana in his system as evidence that he would have been more likely to attack Zimmerman, and expert commentators even had to state that the drug can have "different effects on different people." I don't believe the jury gave this thought much consideration.

Oh come on, you're always hearing about pot-addled thugs getting into brawls!

BTW re: Invoking Stand Your Ground-- I am not certain this is something that has to be invoked like a Street Fighter special move or a card you play in Magic: The Gathering. If you check out those Wikipedia articles I linked, it sounds like Florida is pretty much the wild west with regards to their self-defense laws compared to many other states.

I honestly don't get the mindset that must be involved to approve of this kind of law, or that it was justice served in this case.

Sure, it's easy to get. Lots of people are paranoid and fantasize about getting the bad guys.

[jonny5]

Very true. Some of the good folk on The Truth About Guns have been assassinating Martin's case with glee.

During the trial the defense attempted to use the possibility of Martin having marijuana in his system as evidence that he would have been more likely to attack Zimmerman, and expert commentators even had to state that the drug can have "different effects on different people." I don't believe the jury gave this thought much consideration.

Ya, because it totally relaxes 99% of people, but for Trayvon Martin it turned him into a Neighbourhood Watch killing machine.

Sure, it's easy to get. Lots of people are paranoid and fantasize about getting the bad guys.

But in what way, shape or form was Trayvon Martin a 'bad guy'? Cuz he smoked weed? Got into fights? That's not a bad guy, that's an average 17 year old.

Bad guys carry guns in my book.

[Skykid]

Man, tough one to call. Many convincing arguments. As someone living in a country with far less exposure to the trial a lot of this is new to me. But I was giving the jury some benefit of the doubt simply by virtue of being a jury. Let's be objective momentarily: no justice system is perfect, but these six individuals have a sworn duty to come to a conclusion based on factual evidence. I was under the impression you could shoot just about anyone in the US on grounds of self-defence no matter how thin the scenario.

"He was on my property. I assumed him to be there with criminal intent. I opened fire." Acquitted.

I don't agree with the lax gun laws, and do agree with GP that they shouldn't be in the hands of morons and mentally unhinged people, but putting this case in line with all the other self-defence shootings occurring on an hourly basis is the US, the only thing remarkable about the Zimmerman case is the publicity.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Apparently this has stirred up a lot of stupid people into doing really stupid shit.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... 5359.story

http://wreg.com/2013/07/15/man-claims-a ... taliation/

It's one thing to be upset about a trial verdict, but taking it out on someone totally unrelated... shit, find another way to vent. >_>

[louisg]

Sure, it's easy to get. Lots of people are paranoid and fantasize about getting the bad guys.

But in what way, shape or form was Trayvon Martin a 'bad guy'? Cuz he smoked weed? Got into fights? That's not a bad guy, that's an average 17 year old.

Dude, he was a black kid in a hoodie! Of COURSE he was a bad guy! Sheesh, it's like you don't know this case at all

I don't agree with the lax gun laws, and do agree with GP that they shouldn't be in the hands of morons and mentally unhinged people, but putting this case in line with all the other self-defence shootings occurring on an hourly basis is the US, the only thing remarkable about the Zimmerman case is the publicity.

Yeah, there's a lot wrong with the criminal justice system. I was talking with my pops who used to represent people in legal aid services, and there's a lot of crazy unjust rulings that happen that we just don't hear about. This just happens to be a high profile one. Still drives me fucking crazy though.

[Ed Oscuro]

So my thoughts on the 'problem areas:'

- What limits should be imposed on "self defense" killing? Clearly there is some limit - we recognize distinctions between time periods and different people, so it has to be relevant. But is it still relevantly "self defense" if you prompted a conflict?

- The social angle: It's possible (even likely) Trayvon was unwittingly provoked into fighting Zimmerman. If it was myself in his shoes, I'd want to expect that I could stay calm and not overreact. It is one thing to have a yelling fit - quite another to start throwing punches. As I said before, there is indeed a physical component (the physiological response) to yelling at somebody, but it doesn't constitute an immediate threat to one's well-being.

- The other side to this: What kind of specific restraint should be expected of a person with the recourse to a firearm? (I keep going back to the convenience store angle.)

- How much beef is too much?

[Udderdude]

Toxicology reports actually didn't test if he had drugs in his system at the time of death, however if you Google "marijuana paranoia" you'll find plenty of news articles and stories from people who claim it does cause them to become paranoid. So it's not completely unheard of.

http://www.theroot.com/views/zimmerman- ... rt-allowed

Here's some autopsy report stuff, no gross photos but you still shouldn't check if you're squeamish.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/10 ... in-autopsy

The problem with the toxicology report is it doesn’t indicate exactly when the drugs were used and whether Martin was on drugs the night he was killed.

[trap15]

Ya, because it totally relaxes 99% of people, but for Trayvon Martin it turned him into a Neighbourhood Watch killing machine.

Come on man, haven't you ever seen Reefer Madness! It turns people into monsters!

[GaijinPunch]

Yeah, there's a lot wrong with the criminal justice system. I was talking with my pops who used to represent people in legal aid services, and there's a lot of crazy unjust rulings that happen that we just don't hear about. This just happens to be a high profile one. Still drives me fucking crazy though.

Some Googling should reveal this guys story, but I remember a documentary about a Dead Head that basically was begged by a Narc to introduce him to a dealer to buy a bunch of LSD. He eventually did b/c his car broke down and he was broke. I don't think they got the dealer, but he got 20 years in a Federal pen.

Martensen Case

A sum up: Others, like Christian Martensen of San Francisco, face similar sentences for unwittingly leading agents to a source of acid. An undercover DEA operative offered Martensen $500 to arrange a meeting. Martensen did, and today he is looking at the same 12- to 15-year sentence as the dealer of the acid.

Toxicology reports actually didn't test if he had drugs in his system at the time of death,

Being under the influence of Marijuana is inconclusive any way.

[Skykid]

For an 'other side of the coin' perspective, it's worth noting that the general idea of finding someone guilty or innocent for a killing is a pretty out there notion for a foreigner who lives in a country where guns (and any weaponry) are illegal. Shoot someone here and 95% sure you're going to jail for it, while two men can have a fist fight and bust each others faces and be back on the street the next morning.

English law permits one person to kill another in self-defence only if the person defending him or herself uses no more than "reasonable force"; it is the responsibility of the jury to determine whether or not an unreasonable amount of force was used

On August 20th 1999, farmer Tony Martin shot at two burglars who broke into his home, in the dark, with an illegally owned 12 bore shotgun. He injured one of the burglars, and the other died at the scene. He was convicted of manslaughter and is still in prison after 12 years, and recently denied parole.

Zimmerhead, on the other hand, can head off to Burger King today for a slap up meal.

[GaijinPunch]

For an 'other side of the coin' perspective, it's worth noting that the general idea of finding someone guilty or innocent for a killing is a pretty out there notion for a foreigner who lives in a country where guns (and any weaponry) are illegal. Shoot someone here and 95% sure you're going to jail for it, while two men can have a fist fight and bust each others faces and be back on the street the next morning.
.

Shit. Get arrested here (for anything) and there is a 99.7% chance you will be found guilty.

[jonny5]

Toxicology reports actually didn't test if he had drugs in his system at the time of death, however if you Google "marijuana paranoia" you'll find plenty of news articles and stories from people who claim it does cause them to become paranoid. So it's not completely unheard of.

I'll base my assessment on personal research, thanks. Marijuana paranoia generally entails being too freaked out to go outside and be around people, because they can tell you're high, man. Not freaking out and killing people. I know you haven't even tried it, so keep your dry stats to yourself.

Next time you come over I'm gonna get so high I fall asleep on the couch. Like a crazy person.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Next time you come over I'm gonna get so high I fall asleep on you. Like a crazy person.

You act like an adorable, cute puppy when you're high, with this dopey grin plastered the whole time. Last time I saw you stoned I heard you kept offering my hubby some and forgetting you'd asked him a minute before. I was kinda disappointed I didn't see you try to play one of your cabs.

...sorry, carry on with the thread.

[jonny5]

Next time you come over I'm gonna get so high I fall asleep on you. Like a crazy person.

You act like an adorable, cute puppy when you're high, with this dopey grin plastered the whole time. Last time I saw you stoned I heard you kept offering my hubby some and forgetting you'd asked him a minute before. I was kinda disappointed I didn't see you try to play one of your cabs.

...sorry, carry on with the thread.

That's drunk me. High is me normal, you'd think I was high or acting weird if I wasn't high.

You've never seen me not high.

[Domino]

This thread just remind me how much Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are leeches of the black community. Fucking hypocrites, those two fuckers still make my blood boil. My family still remember Crown Heights and Bensonhurst.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

You've never seen me not high.

Ah, that's why I always see the bong out.

[jonny5]

You've never seen me not high.

Ah, that's why I always see the bong out.

Ya never know when my criminal friends might drop by and want to get paranoid!

[louisg]

Toxicology reports actually didn't test if he had drugs in his system at the time of death, however if you Google "marijuana paranoia" you'll find plenty of news articles and stories from people who claim it does cause them to become paranoid. So it's not completely unheard of.

I'll base my assessment on personal research, thanks. Marijuana paranoia generally entails being too freaked out to go outside and be around people, because they can tell you're high, man. Not freaking out and killing people. I know you haven't even tried it, so keep your dry stats to yourself.

Next time you come over I'm gonna get so high I fall asleep on the couch. Like a crazy person.

Seriously. Claiming he was violent because of marijuana is probably one of the most laughable aspects of the case. It's like saying he was violent because he took Benadryl. But the defense knew their audience I guess.

[Udderdude]

I really am baffled you're all latching onto the pot thing like it destroys the defense's entire case. It wasn't even able to be used as evidence.

I may have made a mistake with the paranoia thing, I guess if that's the only thing I got wrong I can understand you'd all want to jump down my throat over it ..

[jonny5]

I really am baffled you're all latching onto the pot thing like it destroys the defense's entire case. It wasn't even able to be used as evidence.

I may have made a mistake with the paranoia thing, I guess if that's the only thing I got wrong I can understand you'd all want to jump down my throat over it ..

I'm just bugging you buddy, you wear your buttons on your sleeve.

Although, I am going to start answering my door with 'WHO SENT YOU?' on game day.

[Udderdude]

.

[louisg]

I really am baffled you're all latching onto the pot thing like it destroys the defense's entire case. It wasn't even able to be used as evidence.

I'm not sure anyone's saying it destroys the defense's case, but it is blatantly misleading.

[jonny5]

You're making things way too personal.

Who's paranoid now?

[louisg]

OK, this thread is getting too tense. Deep breaths, everybody (insert sound of bong here)

[jonny5]

Not at all. I'm busting udderdude's balls. He knows what's up

But seriously, back on topic. I say myth. Or reality? Wait. What?












who said that?

[GaijinPunch]

I really am baffled you're all latching onto the pot thing like it destroys the defense's entire case. It wasn't even able to be used as evidence.

We're bringing it up in character assassination context, which is pretty despicable.

Oh, and here's a dandy. I posted this on my FB last month when it happened. It hurts a little more now. Brought to you by my home state of Texas... literally, run by fucking dip shits.

[DEL]

Ok, seeing as this is a Skykid thread, I'll bite.
Skykid wrote;

the only thing remarkable about the Zimmerman case is the publicity.

^There ya go. You hit the nail on the head without knowing the reasons why.
The zio media has been hyping the Zimmerman Case beyond belief, but of course with its usual massive Spin.
The Spin is to get the Gentiles to spark off against each other. They do this all the time. I think it was the Bond movie "The World is not Enough" that explained it very clearly. Basically the bad guy was a media magnate who boasts: "I can start wars or riots by a single news story in my media."

Its all divide & conquer agenda and it usually works on the masses, because they simply don't know that all media is owned run and controlled by one group of people.

jonny5 wrote;

Bad guys carry guns in my book.

Yup, and here they are. Or should I say "Here are the pawns that are used"


Oh and check this (Off Topic sorry ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b2FLtav5bY
The Boston Emergency practice Drill that was televised as real, has now been fully solved in this video.
Tut Tut Rene

[evil_ash_xero]

In my town some old guy shot 3 kids with an AK-47. They were all white. One of the kids were brandishing a gun, but he ended up shooting them all in the back. I don't know what has happened to him, but he had to go into hiding, and people burnt his house down.

If those 3 kids were black, people would be like "they were brandishing guns!". In Florida, I'm pretty sure how it would end up.

It's bullshit.

[Udderdude]

I really am baffled you're all latching onto the pot thing like it destroys the defense's entire case. It wasn't even able to be used as evidence.

We're bringing it up in character assassination context, which is pretty despicable.

While "smokes weed" is not anything worth bringing up, "starts fights" is, because it shows a prior history. Turns out they didn't even need it to win anyway.

Oh, and here's a dandy. I posted this on my FB last month when it happened. It hurts a little more now. Brought to you by my home state of Texas... literally, run by fucking dip shits.

This is clearly bullshit, and Texas is retarded. However trying to compare it to the Zimmerman case doesn't really make sense to me.

In my town some old guy shot 3 kids with an AK-47. They were all white. One of the kids were brandishing a gun, but he ended up shooting them all in the back. I don't know what has happened to him, but he had to go into hiding, and people burnt his house down.

If those 3 kids were black, people would be like "they were brandishing guns!". In Florida, I'm pretty sure how it would end up.

It's bullshit.

Sounds like bullshit, I'd need a link to this to see exactly what was going on in that scenario, but that kid was clearly an idiot for pulling a gun out and waving it around, and didn't have any firearms training because you NEVER do that. Ever.

[BryanM]

Honestly for the "prosecution didn't do their jorbs" crowd, if there was anything lacking on their end, it would be the cop's fault.

I miss InjusticeEverywhere.com. Copblock.org just isn't the same.

I really am baffled you're all latching onto the pot thing like it destroys the defense's entire case. It wasn't even able to be used as evidence.

They were allowed to mention it. Any story saying it wasn't was an early one.

It's annoying I'm aware of this. Fuckin' osmosis.

Oh, and here's a dandy. I posted this on my FB last month when it happened. It hurts a little more now. Brought to you by my home state of Texas... literally, run by fucking dip shits.

Goddamnit. When I first heard the case I thought "surely, even Texas won't tolerate this as legit. It's not even false advertising; what kind of dipshit assumes every compensated date automatically involves sex" and gave it not another thought.

It appears it twas I, who was the dipshit. For relaxing even for a minute.

However trying to compare it to the Zimmerman case doesn't really make sense to me.

This is the race thread, not just Edward vs. Bella. The killer was a little too white and the victim a little too Mexican.