Best R-Type game?

Captain · Post by **Captain** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:23 am

Delta goes first for aforementioned reasons.
R-type 1 is the original, no argying.
R-type 3 was too overkill, but gets 3rd place.
R-type 2 is as fun as R-type 1, but simply lacks anything to make it better than the three above.
R-type Leo is not an R-type game, but it's a good game on it's own.

No R-type final. As I've said many times, it's basically chess with spaceships.

Non-included candidates: Pulstar (2nd place), Blazing Star (4th place), X-multiply (2nd place), Katakis (5th place-controllable force=win)

ZaKa-tokyobassist · Post by **ZaKa-tokyobassist** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:48 pm

Delta by a wide margin.

Sinful · Post by **Sinful** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:54 pm

I need to play these games way more. I only beat R-Type Delta via credit feeding (got pretty far, but once I unlocked unlimted credits I couldn't stop playing, lol).

I'll break them into two categories to simplify. Out of the 2D games, I really have a soft spot for R-Type II AC (not including R-Type Leo cause it's so different + barely played it yet. Seems really good, though?). And why I really love 3's pod selection variety, that stage 1 is so brutally boring & long to replay. May have to omit my no state save rule on this one and always start from stage 2? Out of the 3D games, R-Type Delta of course, lol. Too bad Final didn't end the series on a big enough bang...

Kiken wrote:Delta ... removed the annoying second loop.

Er, what? I consider no second loop/quest a serious flaw/disapointment in any videogame. Especially when some second loops/quets mess around with level layout design. In shmups, suicide bullets really do add a nice slightly new spin on how you play the game. Games like Castlevania III NES even add new enemies, I think? ... Plus it's just an awesome uber sweet bonus. You don't have to play it if you don't like it. As it's always much better to have the choice then not.

(People need to start thinking with videogame replay in mind more. As everyone these days just want to play them once and never return to said game ever again. Sad mentality)

But back to Delta, at least the Hard difficulty seems to fill the void for extra replay nicely enough, in case one wants it? Cause it looks plenty harder enough from what I tasted?... But suicde bullets for each difficulty setting provided by an extra loop or two or more would of been way more uber sweet.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:10 pm

No one for R-Type Tactics? I'm still intending to go back to that game at some point.

While the original R-Type is the one I put on my top 25 list, it seems plausible to me that Delta would be equally deserving if it were as important historically.

Sugar Rush Games · Post by **Sugar Rush Games** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:17 am

professor ganson wrote:No one for R-Type Tactics? I'm still intending to go back to that game at some point.

While the original R-Type is the one I put on my top 25 list, it seems plausible to me that Delta would be equally deserving if it were as important historically.

Tactics isn't really in the discussion since this is a shmups board. That said, I doubt anyone would consider it the series' finest hour. Perhaps I'm wrong?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:56 pm

Sugar Rush Games wrote: That said, I doubt anyone would consider it the series' finest hour.

Right, but I think that has more to do with how good the shooters are. R-Type Tactics (Command in the US) was reasonably well regarded, and even received a sequel.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:17 pm

I would generally agree with the idea that original or Delta is first, then the order gets mixed up from there. I have a soft spot for 2 because a local bowling alley had it when I was a kid, and I dumped a LOT of quarters into that machine. In the 6-8 months it was there, I probably spent well over $40 on it, and though I never got very good (still no good, even though I've had R-Types on PSX for years), I always enjoyed my time with it. I also don't get all the hate for Final. Yes, I know the insane # of ships goes to far, and some of them are completely useless, but it's still not a bad game by any means, and I've had loads of fun with it over the years. I just wish somebody at Irem would make an updated R-Types release and include Leo, 3, and maybe an updated graphical take on Delta.

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:47 pm

FRO wrote:I also don't get all the hate for Final. Yes, I know the insane # of ships goes to far, and some of them are completely useless, but it's still not a bad game by any means, and I've had loads of fun with it over the years.

The real problem with Final isn't the overabundance of ships, but the extremely slow pace, even for an R-Type game. It often has long stretches where nothing really happens, this is most noticeable in the first stage. And when it's not slow-paced by design, it's slow-paced by hardware, like with the stage 3 slowdown. Not saying that grinding for ships is somehow a great gameplay feature, but at least you can just stick to the R9 if you like and ignore that part.

Sadly, Irem is dead. Who knows who has the rights to the games. And they've probably lost the source codes anyway...

Sugar Rush Games · Post by **Sugar Rush Games** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:04 pm

Eurogamer has a fantastic retrospective on R-Type Final that may make you look at the game in a new light:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... rospective

Captain · Post by **Captain** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:54 pm

Sugar Rush Games wrote:Eurogamer has a fantastic retrospective on R-Type Final that may make you look at the game in a new light:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... rospective

I cried a little.

Sinful · Post by **Sinful** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:24 pm

Can some explain to me as to why R-Type II is so close to fave R-Type? Seems really ace too me? But maybe I'm missing too much as to why it's not that good? So don't hold back, folks, let all the R-Type II hate flow through you. Feel they Bydo force! ... And then I'll re-direct it right up your... ahem. Nothing, nothing. I really want to hear it all, and will be a great sport about it. Smilies and all.

professor ganson wrote:While the original R-Type is the one I put on my top 25 list, it seems plausible to me that Delta would be equally deserving if it were as important historically.

What the crap has that got to do with anything?

You either like the game more or not. It's that simple, no? Who care about how history looks at it. People don't even play games in order of release anymore and never did unless they play them as released. It's first to grab player interest, first serve. Now the next game in the order that the player played that now has to live up to the first played. Not order of release. Cause I skipped past Gradius 1, due to not grabing my attention fast enough, and right onto II and the rest. Even though Gradius 1 is like thee most infuential hori shmup ever (R-Type owes to it big time too), it don't do anything to make the game any more interesting.

So, it would greatly interest me as to which you prefer more between R-Type 1 & Delta, professor ganson, without histroy pisstory in the way.

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:03 pm

Sugar Rush Games wrote:Eurogamer has a fantastic retrospective on R-Type Final that may make you look at the game in a new light:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... rospective

The article did make me feel even more sad about the series' death, but I think the writer simply saw what he wanted the game to convey, instead of actually having any real insight as to the game's creative process. Kazuma Kojo had absolutely nothing to do with the original R-Type games. In fact, R-Type Final is the only shmup he has ever worked on, according to Mobygames and Giant Bomb. His other games, the Disaster Report series and Steambot Chronicles, are pretty much on the opposite ends of the gaming spectrum in relation to shmups. It's possible he didn't have a solid enough grasp on the genre to create a really great shmup, and instead filled it with a hundred ships to give it longevity and a bullet point instead of relying on the gameplay like the classic originals.

Of course I don't have any clue what went through Kojo's mind either. Maybe he's an avid shmup player in his personal life and really loves the series, and when given the opportunity to create the series' swan song, he decided to make a "profound combination of celebration and lament" like the writer puts it. I really don't know, so the above is just the cynic in me talking. But all those long stretches where nothing happens, meant as "spaces to dance or prepare, to play around or to reflect on the journey and, if you're inclined to intellectual noodling, to try and work out what the hell R-Type Final is trying to say" according to the article, don't really exist in the same manner in the originals. And I'd think the best way to honor a classic series, already known for it's deliberate pace, would not be to make the final installment even more plodding.

All those descriptions the writer tosses around and especially the line "I'm not sure what to make of that, but it's deep as hell" make the game sound like an indie art game, where a "deep story" and "evoking of emotions" are far more important than solid, interesting gameplay. And that's not really what shmups are about. It's odd that something like that would be the main point in a game honoring a series in a genre that's all about the gameplay aspect.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:10 pm

Sinful wrote:
professor ganson wrote:While the original R-Type is the one I put on my top 25 list, it seems plausible to me that Delta would be equally deserving if it were as important historically.
What the crap has that got to do with anything?

I'm not sure I understood your post, but here's what I had in mind. Our forum's top 25 list serves a number of purposes, one of which is to introduce newbies to what's essential in the genre. My own top 25 list doesn't have room for two R-Type games. The original R-Type is the clear choice over Delta for me because of its historical significance. Just looking at their other merits, I'd have to say it's a draw. Both great games.

Sugar Rush Games · Post by **Sugar Rush Games** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:46 am

To be fair, this topic is asking what the best R-Type game is, which may not necessarily be your personal favourite.

Sinful · Post by **Sinful** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:59 pm

professor ganson wrote:I'm not sure I understood your post, but here's what I had in mind. Our forum's top 25 list serves a number of purposes, one of which is to introduce newbies to what's essential in the genre. My own top 25 list doesn't have room for two R-Type games. The original R-Type is the clear choice over Delta for me because of its historical significance. Just looking at their other merits, I'd have to say it's a draw. Both great games.

Yeah, my post didn't make much sense?... Hmm, but I also don't get what you mean by historical significance and how that makes a game better? Or, in this case, give R-Type the edge over R-Type Delta because of it.

And you're now mentioning about introducing newbies to what's essential in the genre. Like helping them with great games to make sure they stick with it and fall in love with shmups more, you mean? Well, in that case, say no more. R-Type Delta is the perfect & definative R-Type game to get newbs into the genre & this series more then any other R-Type game. So yeah, historical significance again means nothing from what I so far see...

So you can't pick a fave between part 1 & Delta? I can understand & relate with this. ... Which one you play more? You 1cc both of them so far? Still replay them a lot? What other shooter you think come close to filling the R-Type type of gaming gap? I thought Einhander for PS1 kinda had that R-Type methodical type of gaming when I played it up to end of stage 3, but with more free style/able to react on the fly easier instead of the stricter "you better know every inch to proceed" style of R-Type. ... Still need to get back to Einhander, but Darius series de-railed from that path for now...

Sugar Rush Games wrote:To be fair, this topic is asking what the best R-Type game is, which may not necessarily be your personal favourite.

Who this directed to? Me? If yes, then yes, I'm totally fine with it. Just have a big interest into what others think about their fave and not. In more detail so that I have a better understanding of how others feel about the series. Plus I try very hard to keep an open mind, because I notice my preferences in gaming changes all the time. And the more I play a game, the more my opinion on it may change? So how others precieve the series is pretty unclear to me this early in my personal R-Type playing without a more in depth explaination, as I didn't put that much time at all into them as to have a more clear view on this topic. Why I'm even more interested into what those who have put in much more time then me have to say on this topic?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:22 pm

Sinful, your question brings up an interesting issue. Could two objects that were physical duplicates (the same in all physical respects apart from spatial location) differ in value from one another? I say, Yes! For example, one of the two might be Vincent Van Gogh's pipe; the other a molecule-for-molecule duplicate of Van Gogh's pipe. I would say that the former is of more value at auction. The same sort of idea is at work in comparing the value of videogames. Two might be similarly excellent but differ insofar as one of the games was highly influential (in a good way).

I should play Delta again soon. My memory is getting foggy. I remember really liking it.

Sinful · Post by **Sinful** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:26 pm

Yes, but both pipes look the same, and can do the exact same thing. Give it to someone who doesn't know one is the original & the other fake, and he'll pick either or as he'll think of them equally without that info. So, if you'd give someone R-Type 1 & R-Type Delta, and let's say there was no way to know which came first to this person, he'd pick the one he enjoys most as the better game. Is what my point is. For the bottom line should be which one you prefer most based on what you see in front of you & what you play. And not including which came first, which has more historiacal value, or what not. Just pure and simple of which is better based on stuff like just gameplay, graphics, sound, design, pacing, difficulty balance, and that sort of thing. This is what really matters.

Looks at the first Raiden Arcade game as a perfect example. It brings nothing new at all as everything it does has been seen before, so folks say, yet what it does it does real well. Is what's most important and how it should be. Yes it copied Toaplan style, but so now so did others copy Raiden (including Irem, hey, hey

). So it spread the Toaplan goodness even more then it would of been able alone.

Oh, and nostalgia may get in the way of a decision too. It can't be helped. But in that case, I always prefer it if the gamer admits that it may affect his decision to whatever extent + state it so that others may know.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:38 am

Yes, all excellent points. I need tie breakers in choosing my favorite shmups because I'm making comparisons with my whole life in mind, and memories get pretty fuzzy.

To Far Away Times · Post by **To Far Away Times** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:16 am

The original has the most impact and is still a fantastic game, but I think Delta is the best game to play in 2013.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:34 am

To Far Away Times wrote: I think Delta is the best game to play in 2013.

Except that: if you're limited to modern HD tvs, R-type Dimensions is probably the best fit.

Sinful · Post by **Sinful** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:10 pm

professor ganson wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote: I think Delta is the best game to play in 2013.
Except that: if you're limited to modern HD tvs, R-type Dimensions is probably the best fit.

Not really. You can always upscale the orginal PS1 Delta to HD graphics too via ePSXe emulator.

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:45 pm

Delta for me.

R-type Final was one of the first games I got when I reimmersed myself into shmups, and I don't think I was ready for it. Looking for it again now though.

Ant

Wyrmnus · Post by **Wyrmnus** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:35 pm

I recently played through R-Type Delta. FUCK that was frustrating. So while it looked pretty great, especially that final boss, my vote'll have to go to R-Type Final.

Squire Grooktook · Post by **Squire Grooktook** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:16 am

I think the original is the most fun to play. Really fun boss fights, lots of variety, and pacing and level of memorization is a lot better than the rest of the series IMO.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:41 pm

Squire Grooktook wrote:I think the original is the most fun to play. Really fun boss fights, lots of variety, and pacing and level of memorization is a lot better than the rest of the series IMO.

I totally agree.

Sinful · Post by **Sinful** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:33 pm

Wyrmnus wrote:I recently played through R-Type Delta. FUCK that was frustrating. So while it looked pretty great, especially that final boss, my vote'll have to go to R-Type Final.

Er, really? I gave up at that boss that was from the original R-Type's level 2. Got so freakin sick of repeating that very boring and scripted scene that takes from the last checkpoint & up to that boss, only to die yet again once I eneter the pussy and be totally at the wrong spot and die instantly when boss appears. lol. The first time I was like "What happened?" The second and others were like, "You've got to be kidding me? Same thing again?!" Then finally "For real?! Any safe spots in this pussy?... Oh crap, I've got to do that boring & pratically scripted scene again?! NOOO!!" *Power Off" ... I have yet to return. Really would like to continue Final (as I finally got a PS2 + backward compatible PS3 this time too so I can play some of the PS2 shmups I've so far found. And for this game it would of sucked playing on an emulator then all my hours spent unlocking having to be redone on the real thing). As it's still pretty good & unique for an R-Type fan, but... darn that pussy boss. It's like finding the mythical G-Spot, only to live.

... Like I'm a male spider, lol.

Despatche · Post by **Despatche** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:25 pm

(r-type boss 2 is retardedly easy, just equip the force and shove yourself into the eye)

r-type delta is pretty obviously the greatest, kiken is right on the money. however, i like the idea of loops and wish delta had something sorta like what super r-type does, and i like sprites and wish delta was sprite-based.

Herr Schatten wrote:That is grotesquely wrong. The levels of the better R-Type games are fine-tuned to the point of perfection, Xexex's can be quite a bit of a mess at times. And while the force usually shows hints of artificial intelligence or at least moves somewhat predictably when detached, the flint only displays some kind of artificial dumbness and moves straight into nearby walls.

this is grotesquely wrong. it only runs into walls because it seeks out the nearest enemy. solution: position better.

you have something with the levels, but i can't really complain... they're better gradius levels than most gradius levels.

Sinful wrote:What the crap has that got to do with anything? You either like the game more or not. It's that simple, no? Who care about how history looks at it. People don't even play games in order of release anymore and never did unless they play them as released. It's first to grab player interest, first serve. Now the next game in the order that the player played that now has to live up to the first played. Not order of release. Cause I skipped past Gradius 1, due to not grabing my attention fast enough, and right onto II and the rest. Even though Gradius 1 is like thee most infuential hori shmup ever (R-Type owes to it big time too), it don't do anything to make the game any more interesting.

and that's a real shame, because not only are most of the gradius games after the first designed really really poorly (also i find it kinda funny that you went to gradius ii and not salamander like you're supposed to), but you're also shitting all over the idea of watching a series grow (you can do that no matter what year you're in).

even beyond that, historical significance is irrelevant for the same reason people's opinions are irrelevant, so try figuring that one out.

(no, really, the original gradius may as well be one of the best gradius games ever due to how shitty most of the other entries are)

Squire Grooktook · Post by **Squire Grooktook** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:09 am

Despatche wrote: and that's a real shame, because not only are most of the gradius games after the first designed really really poorly

Kinda, but not entirely.

Gradius II is a complete mixed bag, but it's actually one of my favorites in the series. The crystal stage and the first half of the final stage are complete bullshit recoveries that foreshadow the stupidity of III Arc, but other than that the level design is actually excellent for the most part. The Moai stage might seem basic, but it has incredibly fun cover seeking action and a boss that's a lot of fun to recover against. Stage 1 and 2 are nothing special, but they get the job done. The volcano/earth stage is excellent and probably one of the most memorable designs in the series. It's kind of a shame because the game was really rushed, and as a result places where the design is severely unbalanced stick out like a sore thumb, but on the other hand there are really strong moments of brilliance throughout.

Gradius III arc, fuck that shit. No comment.

Gradius III Snes is great IMO. Too easy for a veteran shmup player? Yes. Plagued by slow down on higher difficulty? Yes. The latter is probably a large part of the former, and this is probably what holds it back from possibly being one of the best entries in the franchise. But otherwise it's a great intro to the franchise with varied and colorful stages and some solid bullet dodging moments.

Gradius IV is basically a playable version of III Arc. Balls hard but not because of shitty design. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it.

Gaiden is amazing, no need to comment on that.

Gradius V mixes things up quite a bit with the smaller hitbox, but it still feels fundamentally like a Gradius game to me. IMO the game is completely excellent except for being a bit too long. But otherwise the stage and boss design is top notch.

cave hermit · Post by **cave hermit** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:51 am

From what I've played of it, Delta is really good. Around this time last year I got a copy at a local retro gaming store for $30. I somehow managed to ruin the disc that same day attempting to remove a scratch that was making the continue screen music skip with toothpaste. I now have the .iso file on my laptop, but for whatever reason the controller input on ePSXe keeps cutting out so I can't play it reliably. Since Irem died I can't get it on PSN either (don't even think a vita version was offered, and I don't have a PS3 though.) I'd really just like to have a working copy of it so I can enjoy it more...

cave hermit · Post by **cave hermit** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:00 am

If there's one thing that confuses me about the first R-Type, it's the bosses; the first boss seems just... off; you blast the chest a few times, it dislodges from the wall, then explodes when you shoot it again. The second boss just seems impossible to kill without cheesing it and just camping with the force partially lodged in the blue central eye.

shmups.system11.org

Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?

Re: Best R-Type game?