Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

CMoon wrote:When I wrote a strider faq back in the day, I noted some of the differences I saw between the psx version and emulation. Whether they are all legitimate, I don't know: http://www.gamefaqs.com/arcade/583860-s ... /faqs/8402
Cool, will have a look - I definitely noticed the Sky Thunder mkII's bombardment seemed a bit nastier if I no-missed to that point (a screen-width cascade of bombs only seems to happen then).
EmperorIng wrote:I certainly hope the PS1 port i just purchased doesn't have the music slowed down like that. I guess PAL release? Or maybe I'm crazy - it sounds like the music is slower.
Madness can never be ruled out. Image However, I've compared the NTSCJ PS1 ver to MAME, and the music's tempo is identical. And both match this Capcom Game Syndrome LD footage of the PCB (@28:20). So I think you're all good. It's an excellent port, of the same high standard as Daimakaimura and Senjou no Okami II from Capcom Generation 2 and 4 respectively.

Apparently that Youtube video was captured from a PAL machine, so who knows what the wacky steam-powered contraption might've done. The gap of silence between the opening BGM and the start of the stage 1 BGM most definitely isn't there when I play my Japanese copy on my NTSCJ PS1, suggesting the speed is off in some way.
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by EmperorIng »

Domino wrote:I dunno why I guess I found the atmosphere in the first game to be a lot better than the sequel. Strider 2 does have better controls than the first game but I found the game to be very unmemorable. Most of us might still remember things from Strider 1. Stage 2 when fighting the big Mech Gorill, the intro of Stage 1 most of us still remember, and the voice acting between stages.
The entire communist party super-morphing into a hammer-and-sickle-wielding robot centipede might be one of the most memorable moments in video-games, period.
BIL wrote:The gap of silence between the opening BGM and the start of the stage 1 BGM most definitely isn't there when I play my Japanese copy on my NTSCJ PS1, suggesting the speed is off in some way.
As usual, fuck da PAL-ice.
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by EmperorIng »

First impressions of Strider 2:

I really like the rematches against all the Strider 1 bosses in the first level, culminating in the Emperor Dragon (though a Chinese robot is way less cool than Strider 1's entire Kazakh communist party mighty morphing). That's one way to do nostalgia, and I'll be darned if it didn't work.

I sort of wish it didn't have to load a new stage area every fifty seconds though. A strength of the original is that every stage was one long, contiguous, cinematic level, whereas things are much more segmented here. It feels more like a "game" especially considering the short time chunks between levels. It's not a big flaw, or much of one at all, but it's one that is immediately noticeable.

I really like the controls, though the fluidity sometimes seems at odds with the mid-air momentum being as stiff as it is. Apparently there are more moves than just "slash," rereading this topic. I'll have to figure them out, since it would probably help survival immensely.

The boss fights as I have seen it thus far are "can you mash X fast enough before they lay down their first attack?" which the answer for most non-stage-end bosses is "Yes." I like the stages themselves for being fun and creative visually, though the meh 3D sometimes makes me wish for the original's backgrounds. Speaking of the original, it plays fine for me - I was not prepared for the different BGM tracks for stage 3 though (I'm used to st1 being used for stages 3 and 5 as well). I sort of like it the other way around, to be honest!

I can get a "B" rank on the starting level if I keep my head in the game, but will not last long into the second stage. If this didn't have infinite continues, it would be a lot easier to appreciate the game's design, I think. I guess you just have to self-impose your own limits.


As for the Strider 1 port:

-Strider 1's arranged soundtrack is trash, just to let everyone know. No energy or dynamism.
-the music sounds a little different than MAME. it sounds a shade slower with a little less bass... Though it might just be me.
User avatar
CMoon
Posts: 6207
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:28 pm

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by CMoon »

EmperorIng wrote:First impressions of Strider 2:
...
I sort of wish it didn't have to load a new stage area every fifty seconds though. A strength of the original is that every stage was one long, contiguous, cinematic level, whereas things are much more segmented here. It feels more like a "game" especially considering the short time chunks between levels. It's not a big flaw, or much of one at all, but it's one that is immediately noticeable.
I really think a remake of Strider 2 is justifiable. So many flaws just because of technology limitations. I don't think I'd ever want to touch Strider 1, but look at how Dragon's Crown was originally a DC game in development--around the same time Strider 2 came out. Why not just remake this game with modern tech. It would be easy, and I'm sure someone would manage to throw in a few extra levels.
Speaking of the original, it plays fine for me - I was not prepared for the different BGM tracks for stage 3 though (I'm used to st1 being used for stages 3 and 5 as well). I sort of like it the other way around, to be honest!
Like you having originally played the arcade, I really didn't know what to make of the new tracks.
I can get a "B" rank on the starting level if I keep my head in the game, but will not last long into the second stage. If this didn't have infinite continues, it would be a lot easier to appreciate the game's design, I think. I guess you just have to self-impose your own limits.
You MUST play this game for the high rank and the 1cc. I'm still haven't purchased Metal Gear Rising, but I've heard that that game works the same way--if you just continue/cheese your way through it, its a rental at best, but if you play for score, and/or perfecting the game, it is really something.

Having never 1cc'd Strider 2 but having come really close and managed to S rank the first few levels, I say keep with it and reap the reward!
Last edited by CMoon on Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Randorama wrote:ban CMoon for being a closet Jerry Falwell cockmonster/Ann Coulter fan, Nijska a bronie (ack! The horror!), and Ed Oscuro being unable to post 100-word arguments without writing 3-pages posts.
Eugenics: you know it's right!
SHMUP sale page.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

EmperorIng wrote:I really like the controls, though the fluidity sometimes seems at odds with the mid-air momentum being as stiff as it is. Apparently there are more moves than just "slash," rereading this topic. I'll have to figure them out, since it would probably help survival immensely.
The accountability associated with a forward jump, and especially a running forward jump, definitely feels intentional to me. The bigger the mistake, the tougher the recovery. Vertical jumps and walking forward jumps = easily correctable. Running forward jump = can be wrestled back on course if you're quick and deft enough. Full-blast dashing forward double somersault = air control is near-nil, but at least you can stop yourself careening into oblivion with a well-placed air combo. The sequel avoids the punitive stiffness of the first game, where you're categorically screwed if any manner of jump is misplaced, but you still need to think before leaving the ground.

MOVELIST CORNER

Besides the usual dashing, double jumping and sliding inputs, there's only a few special commands. Advanced play is still more about efficiency of movement, as with the first game.

down, up, attack in air = air combo
back + jump while sliding = slide cancel
away from wall + jump = gliding jump

Note that, like a typical Capcom fighting game, you can start a move input before Hiryu's in position to execute. For example, if you're about to land and need to dash immediately, don't wait for the jump to end - hit f,f a moment before you hit the ground. If you're hanging from a ceiling and want to use an air combo on something below, hit down+j to drop and up+attack to execute the combo - no need to hit down twice. Then jump back up onto the ceiling. Ninja as fuck!
I can get a "B" rank on the starting level if I keep my head in the game, but will not last long into the second stage. If this didn't have infinite continues, it would be a lot easier to appreciate the game's design, I think. I guess you just have to self-impose your own limits.
WORD. Or at least keep in mind that credit feeding < tentative 1CC with levels skipped / middling ranks < 1CC ALL with best ranks.

Not unexpectedly, the game's review scores suffered in some mainstream magazines at the time due to the "lack of challenge" afforded by infinite credits. Getting an end-game ranking total of six gold stars is a lot harder than no-missing the first game, but that one had checkpoints so it's way harder! -_-

Then again if it'd limited credits it'd have been too hard. Good ol' Catch-22... edit: besides demonstrating the futility of catering to mainstream credit feeders, I totally forgot what a classic popcorn thread that turns into :o
Speaking of the original, it plays fine for me - I was not prepared for the different BGM tracks for stage 3 though (I'm used to st1 being used for stages 3 and 5 as well). I sort of like it the other way around, to be honest!
That's actually the second PCB revision's music, in case you didn't know (it's not new music made for the port). Apparently, there's also a third PCB rev which is used in the Capcom Game Syndrome LD 1CC, with slight tweakings of the "new version" soundtrack. I grew up with the MD version, which uses the third rev soundtrack, so I was WTFing at the old version soundtrack when I finally tried it in MAME.
As for the Strider 1 port:

-Strider 1's arranged soundtrack is trash, just to let everyone know. No energy or dynamism.
-the music sounds a little different than MAME. it sounds a shade slower with a little less bass... Though it might just be me.
I put down a few observations about the PS1 port here, having been inspired to go back to it last week. tldr: ported from scratch using the PCB and source code as reference, lots of little tweaks here and there. It's definitely pretty close though, I've cleared both back-to-back-to-back without having to switch up my usual plans at all.

I don't personally notice any BGM tempo differences in the port, comparing fast-moving stuff like "Beasts" (the flourish that hits as you reach the highest rooftop in stage 1, in sync with the swarm of flying Mosquemen diving down). However the port's music is slightly different. Compare the wind noise in the arcade's "Mass of Cloud" (Siberian power plant BGM) to the port's - the former is an eerier whistling where the latter is more a nondescript white noise.
User avatar
CIT
Posts: 4673
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:39 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by CIT »

Had another go at this today, and it's even better than I had remembered. :)

I can get to Stage 3 without using continues, but then things quickly come apart. Who here has actually cleared this on one credit? The final stage seems crazy hard.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

I have, with pretty crummy ranks though (Lots of Ds, if I recall right). It's a way tougher clear than the first, not least since you only get one life. Bigger enemies tend to put up a nastier fight too, where most of the first game's bosses die before they can do much.

Last time I was playing seriously I worked out how to gold star the Hong Kong and castle stages, then drifted away... pretty hard stuff. Gold star rank requires no damage, lots of hidden score items and a quick clear time. Manic yet immaculately controlled, I love it! Wish the bomb did something awesome, but it's easy to ignore.
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by EmperorIng »

After some practice I can go through stage 2 as my first level (since i don't want to deal with that place in a higher rank), and get to the mammoth boss on stage 3 (I want to save the easier Hong Kong for last).

The mammoth boss is tough though. It seems the patented "stand still and do the up-down slash" isn't working. What do?
User avatar
trap15
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 am
Location: 東京都杉並区
Contact:

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by trap15 »

Get behind him and mash like crazy :V
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
User avatar
MOSQUITO FIGHTER
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:32 pm

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

HMPH! HA! TAA! CHING TA! TA! TATATA! CHING HMPH! HAA! CHING TA! TA! TTA! TA! CHING TA! TA! CHING TA! TAA! TATAAA! CHING
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17661
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Skykid »

trap15 wrote:Get behind him and mash like crazy :V
You can't, he's on a raised platform.

That boss is all about biding your time through the hydra attacks before chasing him down as soon as he comes to a halt. The down/up slash melee is all you have against him that's effective, so just hop under the platform and try to squeeze two or three in before he zips off. You shouldn't need to repeat the process more than three times I think: maybe less if you slap him with your homing super.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
CIT
Posts: 4673
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:39 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by CIT »

I think they were talking about the mammoth in Stage 3...

The "get behind him and slash like a maniac" method works there to an extent, but when he starts shooting those homing balls you need to keep sliding out of the way. My problem is, that sometimes I can't slide there for some reason.(?)
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by EmperorIng »

Yeah, if I can manage to make it to Herzog Schlange with more than one hit (the previous section is rough; especially that knight-fight with the grenadiers in the background), it's pretty easy to make him my bitch (ha).

The mammoth though has that problem of the homing balls and way more health than most other mid-bosses. It also feels like the midigare slash doesn't do as much damage to it. I don't want to think about getting past the gravity robot-thing in the next stage...
trap15 wrote:Get behind him and mash like crazy :V
MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:HMPH! HA! TAA! CHING TA! TA! TATATA! CHING HMPH! HAA! CHING TA! TA! TTA! TA! CHING TA! TA! CHING TA! TAA! TATAAA! CHING
I think I am slowly learning the finer points of Strider 2 tactics.
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17661
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Skykid »

CIT wrote:I think they were talking about the mammoth in Stage 3...
Shit sorry. :oops:
That's my literary brain perceiving mammoth as an adjective.

I can't actually remember a mammoth on stage 3! The castle right? :idea:
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

Stage 0 = Amazon (unlockable by clearing both the first and second games, using the same memory card)
Stage 1 = Neo Hong Kong
Stage 2 = Fortress Wahnen (castle)
Stage 3 = Arctic research base (w/Mammoth + Kraken)
Stage 4 = Flying Battleship Balrog
Stage 5 = Third Moon

Technically you only need to clear one of the first three, then Balrog and the Third Moon, but your score will suffer compared to a run that clears all of them. You also need to clear all the stages to unlock playable Hien in the port, iirc.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Is the Amazon stage found in the arcade version?
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

Nope! Exclusive to the port. Although, I wonder if the arcade version uses it as the high score table backdrop too.

edit: yep, seems so
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Ed Oscuro »

The waterfall stage, right? I kind-of invoked that as a reason the new Strider hypists are off in la-la land about sprites not scaling well. If it's good enough on the PlayStation it's good enough for me!
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by EmperorIng »

Ha ha, I actually don't like the Amazon stage in Strider 2, mainly because of its boss fight going on waaaaay too long.
User avatar
trap15
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 am
Location: 東京都杉並区
Contact:

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by trap15 »

The "Stage 0" actually exists as a stage in the arcade version, it's just impossible to actually get to. It's definitely a prototype stage though, lots of collision detection errors and such. It's placed as Stage 4, and the real Stages 4 and 5 are actually 5 and 6 :)

Image
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by EmperorIng »

It definitely feels like a stage made to test all the mechanics, especially with that blatant "test the jumping system out" on that portion right before the interminable boss fight. :wink:
User avatar
Ghegs
Posts: 5075
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:18 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Ghegs »

Did you guys know Hiryu recently had a Death Battle against Ryu Hayabusa?
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.

My videos
Agentunknown
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:54 am

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Agentunknown »

How rare or common are strider 2 or 1 pcbs?
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17661
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Skykid »

Agentunknown wrote:How rare or common are strider 2 or 1 pcbs?
Both I'd consider to be pretty damn uncommon, although I've seen less Strider 1's (probably because of the age/collectors holding on to them). In years here I've seen very few S2 PCB's, and I bought the last one, but JADAKISS is selling one right now with posters and an artset that I would def. consider if you want the best of Future Ninja Godliness.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

trap15 wrote:The "Stage 0" actually exists as a stage in the arcade version, it's just impossible to actually get to. It's definitely a prototype stage though, lots of collision detection errors and such. It's placed as Stage 4, and the real Stages 4 and 5 are actually 5 and 6 :)
Explains a lot, it's a bit of a shit stage tbh. :mrgreen:
Ghegs wrote:Did you guys know Hiryu recently had a Death Battle against Ryu Hayabusa?
Haha, having just read the Strider manga I'm glad they used its ridiculously OTT bits, like Hiryu slicing limbs clean off with his bare hands and dodging the bullets of multiple laser-guided superchainguns. Also, the life-or-death inverted gravity somersaulting from the first AC game's final stage. That bit just looks and feels fffucking amazing every single time.

Joe Musashi, Strider Hiryu and Ryu Hayabusa = OG videogame ninja triumvirate.
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17661
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Skykid »

More insights!

The PSX version defaults to a lower difficulty than the arcade PCB. Getting into service menu today, it's like this:

PSX Defaults

Health Stock: 5
Max Health: 6
Game difficulty: 4
Bomb: 1
Max Bomb: 2

Arcade Defaults

Health Stock 3
Max Health: 3
Game Difficulty: 6
Bomb: 2
Max Bomb: 2

So it's all round way tougher. I set my PCB to match the PSX defaults because I'm just not that badass yet.

In terms of rank, I'm getting A's on stage 1 every time now, but I managed to get an S by no-missing it once. I think all the hidden bonuses may also be a factor.

trap15 wrote:If anyone has the PS1 version, mind testing out a HARD FREEZE bug I found in the arcade version? :wink:

While on the ground, walk (not run) sideways, and hit A+B at the same time. Or hang on a wall and climb up/down and hit A+B at the same time.
You need to be moving when you press the two, so don't hit all 3 at once; get moving and then hit A+B.

The arcade version will just lock up and require a reset. Did some tracing, and it's actually a stack overflow :lol:
This doesn't happen on my PCB. I tried it every which way, and it won't freeze.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
trap15
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 am
Location: 東京都杉並区
Contact:

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by trap15 »

The arcade defaults depend on the region. Those defaults sound like the Asian region I think.
Those PSX defaults are the same as the US or Japanese version (can't recall which).

Surprising that your PCB doesn't freeze doing that though. Maybe you have a different PCB revision from the one dumped in MAME? :!:
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20289
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by BIL »

Regarding ranks, in the PS1 version you simply need to score a certain amount of points per stage (totalled up from clear time bonus, remaining Boost stock bonus, remaining life stock bonus, plus the points gained in-stage from items and destroyed enemies). There's no special bonus for item collection percentage, you just need to grab enough to put your score over the top. ★ / star is the highest rank.
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17661
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Skykid »

trap15 wrote:The arcade defaults depend on the region. Those defaults sound like the Asian region I think.
Those PSX defaults are the same as the US or Japanese version (can't recall which).
Mine's Japanese, specified on boot and the pcb sticker, I assure you they're the correct arcade defaults. I'd be curious to hear which region follows the PSX defaults though. :idea:

Regarding the freeze bug, I definitely don't have it, but it sounds like a really serious issue to the point where it would be commonly known. It's not a difficult button configuration to accidentally trigger.
BIL wrote:Regarding ranks, in the PS1 version you simply need to score a certain amount of points per stage (totalled up from clear time bonus, remaining Boost stock bonus, remaining life stock bonus, plus the points gained in-stage from items and destroyed enemies). There's no special bonus for item collection percentage, you just need to grab enough to put your score over the top. ★ / star is the highest rank.
Ah got it. That sounds accurate, yep. I finally pushed through to the third stage boss on a credit - playing the game on a supergun with a stick and buttons with 1 second loads is heavenly. Unforgiving bizness though, need to be ninja tight to get around certain areas without conceding too much health.

I'm thinking playing 3,2,1 is most sensible, despite the nefarious difficulty increases.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Strider 2: Future Ninja Godliness

Post by Ed Oscuro »

dump eet :!:

I thought MAME's Japan region default is 3 health bars. I often don't play the Asia region ROMs.
Post Reply