CAVE staff quitting

[KAI]

set him traps

The idea of a Shump with AI is stupid.

[Op Intensify]

Yeah, rank is infinitely preferable to however you'd put AI in a shmup.

[mesh control]

Are we talking about Zanac yet?

[Last_Dancer]

I wonder why 1vs1 fighting games are still pretty big all around.

Fighting games were never dead.
One thing Fighting game developers did right was "spread your love across as many platforms as possible", 360 & PS3 & PC etc

Shmup developers, however, did 360-only, the least selling console in Japan, moneyhatted by Microsoft, and thats what killed CAVE, why limiting yourself to the 360 ? Makes no sense.

This is the law, siding with Microsoft only ends in failure, every (japanese) company and their products, who did 360-only are either dead or meaningless, look at RARE, tri-Ace, CAVE, Mistwalker, Magna Carta 2 dudes, Microsoft Fanboy Itagaki, crazy Sakaguchi, Peter Molineux etc.

I hate to say it, but all those companys who ignored their home market by siding with Microsoft got what they deserved,

Japanese RPG and Shmups only on the 360, this works ONLY in Bizarro World

[KAI]

Fighting games were never dead.

2001 Anno Domini

[Cuilan]

lol

Whether that "lol" was meant either as a disagreement or as amusement towards me daring to mention a reality that a certain vocal minority doesn't want to hear/accept, it isn't funny at all. It's sad to see a company that makes so many good games fall victim to the type of mismanagement that considers investing money in projects that consistently under-perform to be a good idea. At the very least, they should have scaled down the budgets of said projects to match their average sales, to ensure good profitability.

My favorite scene in one of my favorite games. Brought a tear to my eye. Not joking.

[trap15]

Shmup developers, however, did 360-only, the least selling console in Japan, moneyhatted by Microsoft, and thats what killed CAVE, why limiting yourself to the 360 ? Makes no sense.

It does make sense. You're not allowed to release anything on PS3 without a widescreen mode, and shmups simply don't work very well with widescreen. If MS is going to pay them to do it as well, then there's really no question on the superior console for this genre. Xbox360 dev tools are a ton cheaper than PS3 dev tools as well.

[Op Intensify]

Shmup developers, however, did 360-only, the least selling console in Japan, moneyhatted by Microsoft, and thats what killed CAVE, why limiting yourself to the 360 ? Makes no sense.

Jesus Christ, you're still at it? If that's really what killed Cave, then why didn't Mamoru-kun and UDHD rock the charts on PS3? What a simple-minded fanboy.

2001 Anno Domini

That was only Capcom. A lot of Westerners just couldn't let go of Capcom and move on to the SNK/Arcsys/etc. fighters that were coming out then, so Capcom's long withdrawal from the fighting genre was widely mistaken for the genre's death. It's also why the competitive lifespans of broken cut-and-paste games like MvC2 and CvS2 were excessively prolonged.

My favorite scene in one of my favorite games. Brought a tear to my eye. Not joking.

I assume the one episode of the Happiness! anime I could bear to watch is not a faithful portrayal of the VN.

[Cuilan]

I assume the one episode of the Happiness! anime I could bear to watch is not a faithful portrayal of the VN.

What? What anime? I have no idea what you are talking about. Such a thing never happened. Never. You are crazy.

...oh, maybe you're referring to that one low-budget bootleg Korean-made series that was kinda-sorta very loosely based on the game somewhat. You have my condolences for having watched even a few minutes of it.

[shmuppyLove]

This is the law, siding with Microsoft only ends in failure, every (japanese) company and their products, who did 360-only are either dead or meaningless, look at RARE, tri-Ace, CAVE, Mistwalker, Magna Carta 2 dudes, Microsoft Fanboy Itagaki, crazy Sakaguchi, Peter Molineux etc.

[Ed Oscuro]

reportedly ninja gaiden sold miserably

ha a joke!

What do those other companies all have in common? Niche products or under-produced games (as Zach Meston pointed out, exactly what demographic is attracted to the title "Grabbed by the Ghoulies" ?)

The Fable series is going strong as shmuppyLove points out by showcasing Molyneux's classy, expensive sweater. That's not something you would buy with Populous moneys alone. Also, I was not aware of his secret Japanese nature, that is also news to me.

Who else spent a lot of time with the original XBox...oh, FROM Software. Not doing too shabbily either.

[Op Intensify]

The Fable series is going strong as shmuppyLove points out by showcasing Molyneux's classy, expensive sweater

Not anymore. Fable 3 sold like shit, and Molyneux has abandoned the series to work on absurd pet projects.

Who else spent a lot of time with the original XBox...oh, FROM Software. Not doing too shabbily either.

From wasn't doing so hot until Demon's Souls. Chromehounds had online support pulled after, what, a year and a half?

I'd say they'd still be in the gutter if not for the Souls series. Despite having the best game engine of the series, Armored Core V was a colossal failure outside of Japan, largely due to the miniscule online community and Bamco's unwillingness to support it.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Rare wasn't Japanese last time I checked.
Sega and Capcom supported the original Xbox alright and both are doing fine.

[Cuilan]

Sega and Capcom supported the original Xbox alright and both are doing fine.

I dunno if I would say they're doing "fine" (especially the former). I guess fine relative to most other Japanese publishers.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I suppose Sega financially is doing better than during the Saturn and DC days.

[Op Intensify]

I suppose Sega financially is doing better than during the Saturn and DC days.

I'm not so sure. They were sitting on a huge pile of money from the Genesis back then, and the DC was modestly successful until the PS2 showed up to smite it.

Now they're so risk-averse they can't even get something like Anarchy Reigns out the door here.

[RNGmaster]

Are we talking about Zanac yet?

IDK but after this discussion I fucking need a Zanax

[FetusZero]

It does make sense. You're not allowed to release anything on PS3 without a widescreen mode, and shmups simply don't work very well with widescreen. If MS is going to pay them to do it as well, then there's really no question on the superior console for this genre. Xbox360 dev tools are a ton cheaper than PS3 dev tools as well.

Can't believe people still believe that.

It's mandatory on both systems to support High Definition and 16:9, hence why we get to choose pretty wallpapers for each side of the screen and why every CAVE shmups on X360 support HD resolutions. And also, Hitogata Happa, Megaman 9/10, Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, they should be prime examples of 'fake' widescreen and HD games on PS3.

CAVE simply decided to side in with Microsoft. Why though.. I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with money, contracts and what not. Or maybe CAVE simply doesn't like Sony.

Shmup developers, however, did 360-only, the least selling console in Japan, moneyhatted by Microsoft, and thats what killed CAVE, why limiting yourself to the 360 ? Makes no sense.

The only thing that 'kills them' is that unfortunately, I believe shmups don't tend to sell that well on consoles, whichever one it is. Fighting games remain because it still is extremely popular and there still an immense community for it. Anyone will pick up a fighting game. Shmups, however, tend to be popular with a limited number of people. It's community, while seemingly large, is much smaller than any other genre I can think of.

[Op Intensify]

Can't believe people still believe that.

It's because it's true. For retail PS3 games, Sony requires that they at least include a mode that fills up an entire 16:9 display.

The widescreen modes in Mamoru-kun and UDHD were made out of necessity more than anything else.

Anyone will pick up a fighting game.

Capcom and Mortal Kombat, yes, but Arcsys and SNKP have a tough time finding an audience in the West with the broader 2D fighting game community, which has always been very Capcom-centric. There's an idiotic stigma that every Japanese 2D fighter not made by Capcom is an "anime fighter," and should be avoided by non-weeaboos.

3D fighting games are pretty much dead aside from Tekken/SC, and those have steadily dropped off in popularity. Even Kombat's gone back to 2D now.

[Skykid]

My favorite scene in one of my favorite games. Brought a tear to my eye. Not joking.

[Op Intensify]

At least he's not alone.

[Cuilan]

What? Has a book never moved you emotionally? It's essentially the same thing, really. Are you going to tell people who read books to get a life now? I'd expect nothing less from an East Ender chav.

[BulletMagnet]

Everyone cool your jets, please.

Skykid, that was unprovoked and unnecessary - consider this a warning.

[Skykid]

I'd expect nothing less from an East Ender chav.

You mean 'East End' chav, or, the pigeonholing of the British working class with a moniker that has been used to incite prejudice in the media against people who come from underprivileged backgrounds. Unless of course you're referring to someone from the television soap, 'East Enders', which as it happens, is also watched by millions of people with no lives.

[Ed Oscuro]

The Fable series is going strong as shmuppyLove points out by showcasing Molyneux's classy, expensive sweater

Not anymore. Fable 3 sold like shit, and Molyneux has abandoned the series to work on absurd pet projects.

"On 7 March 2012, Molyneux announced that he will be leaving Lionhead and Microsoft — after the completion of Fable: The Journey — to begin work at a company founded by former Lionhead Studios CTO Tim Rance called 22Cans."

Aha, maybe he'll be rejoining his fellow Japanese developers, the aforementioned Cave COO (they'll have to be co-CTOs) and CEO. They can all plan big, amazing games with features you've never seen before for all the systems together!

I don't understand the criticism of FROM's performance. They essentially became the Tenchu series, and their other series were generally niche by design (AC, Otogi).

Chromehounds was online from 2006 to January 2010 - not a bad run for an online video game, and not really an indictment of FROM's performance there on any count.

[Cuilan]

You mean 'East End' chav, or, the pigeonholing of the British working class with a moniker that has been used to incite prejudice in the media against people who come from underprivileged backgrounds. Unless of course you're referring to someone from the television soap, 'East Enders', which as it happens, is also watched by millions of people with no lives.

I was led to believe it was the correct usage.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/East+Ender

I sometimes like to practice UK slurs and slang, and this seemed like a good opportunity.

[AntiFritz]

I reckon cave would be going ok if they had a much smaller team and only focused on shmups. Don't they have like 100 employees? All working on "social" gaming trash probably...


EDIT: Why isn't posting pictures in shmups chat an instant bannable offense yet.

[Op Intensify]

I don't understand the criticism of FROM's performance. They essentially became the Tenchu series

Most of the Tenchu games after Acquire left the series were handled by K2 Limited, who also developed Samurai Shodown Sen for SNKP.

I wasn't able to get into Chromehounds until very near the end, sadly.

[Cuilan]

I reckon cave would be going ok if they had a much smaller team and only focused on shmups. Don't they have like 100 employees? All working on "social" gaming trash probably...

They should work on whatever brings them a good profit. They're really the only ones who consistently cater to the shmups niche with quality products, so I really doubt they'd abandon it, even if they find a new market that's more profitable. Downsizing would most likely be the next step if the new leadership can't turn things around quick enough.

[FetusZero]

It's because it's true. For retail PS3 games, Sony requires that they at least include a mode that fills up an entire 16:9 display.

The widescreen modes in Mamoru-kun and UDHD were made out of necessity more than anything else.[...]

I'll still maintain my position on this, but that's pretty much as far as I'll go lol. Either way, even based on that, they could release them on PSN if they wanted. Either the devs/publishers don't see the point to invest in it, Sony has minimal interest in the genre, or shmup sales on PS3 are definitely lacking. If it was good business, we would likely see more of them. Hopefully Under Defeat will be successful in those regards and could shine some new light for other companies like CAVE, but I doubt it.. just seeing what happens despite the fanbase being pretty much established on X360 makes it hardly believable that a switch to another console would change anything. Maybe they could try self-publishing on PC? I wouldn't mind having these games on PC, if anything I'd actually enjoy it more.

[...]3D fighting games are pretty much dead aside from Tekken/SC, and those have steadily dropped off in popularity. Even Kombat's gone back to 2D now.

These two franchises alone gathers quite a community on the consoles lol. It's like at my job.. when a shmup comes out on PS3, X360, or PC, I'm like the only one to purchase it out of hundreds of employees. Sometimes I manage to get a few of my coworkers to try them or purchase them if the price is cheap enough. Yet when a 'good' fighting game comes out, it's like everyone buys it. For my part the only one I currently have is BlazBlue on PS3. Not a big fan of fighting games in general, but every once in a while it's fun. I remember wasting my remaining coins at the arcades on Soul Calibur after a night filled with House of the Dead. I miss these days.. man why are every arcades here shutting down? It reminds me.. there was a shmup I used to play there and I never remembered its name.