STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

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moozooh
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by moozooh »

Jaimers wrote:Just out of curiosity, have you actually tried playing Galuda for score?
Optimizing stages is such a finicky and precise execution that it might as well be easier to chain in DOJ.
You don't have to optimize everything to get a good score in Galuda, just like you don't have to milk bosses until cows go home in ESPRa.De. and Garegga, or empty-locking everything in Ketsui. For you top-tier players everything turns into an endurance game anyway, the game being Ketsui or DOJ would only mean that even your team's members will have to struggle for survival to have an all-clear. Any other game, and you'd have just as much reason to complain about optimization because that's all that's left for you to do anyway.

On the other hand, people who haven't ever been to the second loop of DOJ or Ketsui won't magically do it in a week, nor get any decent scores, because scoring is closely tied to excellent survival rate and either game is much harder to survive in than Galuda. They won't even 1-ALL either before clearing Galuda, initial time put in being equal.
Jaimers wrote:Get close to start a 5-chip timer and lockshot until it runs out is simple enough to get good scores with.
If some 70–80 million runs ending in 1-ALLs or first loop gameovers are good scores, then yes, sure. Indeed that is everything required for those.

For anything better it's not that simple by far just because end stage bonuses contribute about 1/5 to 1/4 of your first loop score, and stage counter gets slashed in third with each death, so you have to survive everything as best you can, and that includes preserving bomb count. Dying early in the game or mid-stage 5 in Ketsui is pretty much as bad as in Galuda because of these running bonuses, and especially because of the requirements for the second loop which are way stricter than in Pachi games. The second loop, on the other hand, has yet another scoring system that is nowhere near the first loop, and that requires even better knowledge of the game (and thus more learning time) to survive and take advantage of.

Ketsui is not a bad game and its scoring system isn't bad either, but it's not at all suited for a week-long competition, and I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
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ShadowWraith
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ShadowWraith »

can we play raiden fighters yet?
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Despatche
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Despatche »

moozooh wrote:Ketsui is not a bad game and its scoring system isn't bad either, but it's not at all suited for a week-long competition, and I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
Well, it doesn't actually matter, that this thing people always point out still happens in practice. The real problem is that there are way too many people who already know or can learn (very quickly) how any game works, and there are way too many people who simply refuse to put in any effort. Complaining about whether or not a game is suitable for a "one-week tournament" is not the point and has never been the point for as long as the STGT has existed. It's called a tournament, even when it's not; it's just a gathering.

You can go on and on for days about how wonderful a pick Espgaluda is and I would still vote DOJ because I don't like Espgaluda. I'd be "right", you'd be "wrong", and those few great players are still going to flood the top 10 or 20 while all those non-players are going to flood the rest.

If you really care that much, consider DOJBL 1-Round, because it'd be perfect and you know it.
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ShadowWraith
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ShadowWraith »

i was going to write a big post about the games we have to choose from this week but then i realised i don't really care and will end up playing whichever one wins regardless.

limiting dojbl to 1 loop because it's a difficult game is dumb. the only time loops should be limited is if they loop infinitely i.e hishousame.
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ebarrett
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ebarrett »

DOJBL second loop is sort of easier than Ketsui's first anyway.
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RNGmaster
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by RNGmaster »

Code: Select all

[11:40] <eb> something I have practiced is totally easier than something I have not  :v
Truth right here. We aren't going to sway anybody at this point, so let's just wait for the votes to be cast and then prepare our complaints about how unfair Ura requirements/the 1-5 chain/maximum bonus are.

and cross our fingers that ketsui wins
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ebarrett
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ebarrett »

Thanks for leaking my punchline, RNG
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Seppo Hovi
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Seppo Hovi »

I made a promise to myself not to post in anything aside submitting the scores when I started this thing, but I really wanted to say something, so I guess it's the time to break that promise.

KAI wrote:I'm sure 90% of the people here have 1CCed Galuda, that's the difference.
I never had played the three first week games before. I think the only games with this tournament I have played are MS and DOJ. Ketsui really can't be counted since I only did some silly stuff with it. But not having played most of the games does not stop me from learning them, and having some fun with them if only possible. I'm one of the most slowest learners there are out there, and I still am not complaining about not having played game X before while someone here obviously has. - Then again I'm not really competing against other people here, I'm competing against myself. And it's pretty fun at times.

Scoring never was about winning, not for me who has grown up scoring in the Touhou games, where there were some really good people who would - and still do - beat my scores almost instantly, without much trouble doing so. I still am really happy about some of my scores, even while they were beaten. My IN easy Magic Team 2.6b held the #1 on the western uploader for two minutes and one second. I lost, as I always do. But I still don't regret having done that run, it is one of the best moments I have had this far with Touhou, or any SHMUP. I did not win with my V-V score, several people beat me, even while I played really much that week. But I won myself, I actually took part in it and beat the condition I had given myself. And that was what mattered.

Think about people going for WR's. There is the old record holder, having possibly thousands of hours in the game, while you have none. Still old records get beaten constantly (at least with Touhou) and new ones are set. New superplayers rise, old ones fade into retirement. Some people do not give up, even if achieving something was against the odds.
Since it never is.

Hard work, a lot of effort, and you will eventually reach your goal. Whether it was a WR or just a good score. And reaching the goal will only feel if it was your goal, not someone else's. You don't need to win to achieve a goal.


You must beat yourself first, then the other people.

-

What am I voting for? I'm not sure. While my own personal views are what they are, I am not alone in this. There thankfully is some time left, so I still can consult some people.
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Chirpy13
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Chirpy13 »

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Last edited by Chirpy13 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KAI
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by KAI »

There's 2 reasons to be in this tournament:
1: to Win
2: to Improve you skills

Pick one.
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ShadowWraith
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ShadowWraith »

I choose option 3: because it's fun

no matter how much i may bitch about it
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third_strike
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by third_strike »

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6382
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17432
Several years of score board and only a few 2-All, only few days of STGT and several 2-all.
STGT is just magic!
Zyre
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Zyre »

ShadowWraith wrote:I choose option 3: because it's fun
This. Hands down.
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STGT '10 9th place - Team Dickpenis Cockenstrudel
STGT '11 3rd place - Team Sweet Tacos
STGT '12 - Team Sweet Tacos
Hattori Hanzo
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Hattori Hanzo »

KAI wrote:There's 2 reasons to be in this tournament:
1: to Win
2: to Improve you skills

Pick one.
You are either:
1: sikraiken
2: not sikraiken.

In case of 2, better have fun, as winning is not an option :D

Seriously, I am here for reason #3. It's been fun as hell 2 years ago and it even is this year, despite the fact that my team is being held captive by a witch in the no-show oven after trying to bake a cockenstrudel...
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Ed Oscuro
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Ed Oscuro »

third_strike wrote:http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6382
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17432
Several years of score board and only a few 2-All, only few days of STGT and several 2-all.
STGT is just magic!
Cool!

Also I should ship you a laptop or something so you can play next week. :|
Last edited by Ed Oscuro on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KAI
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by KAI »

You can always have fun by improving your skills.
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ShadowWraith
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ShadowWraith »

Possibly, though improving my skills would be a secondary benefit. I don't sign up for STGT to improve my skills, seeing as I rarely play shmups outside of STGT, and thus I could give less than one fuck whether my skills are up to par or not. Shmups are fun! They're twitchy, they tax your reactions and decision making skills and they punish you for fucking up (most of the time). That's what I'm here for.

and also i want to beat sikraiken once okay :(
Hattori Hanzo
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Hattori Hanzo »

ShadowWraith wrote:and also i want to beat sikraiken once okay :(
Then getting his address and a baseball bat is the easiest way :p

@ KAI
For me it is vice versa. If I have fun, it's nice that there might be or might not be an improvement in skill coming with it.
Chaos Phoenixma
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Chaos Phoenixma »

how much does sikraiken play anyway?

With how well he does in these competitions, I'm surprised he's not destroying most of the records we have here.
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gs68
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by gs68 »

Espgaluda is fun, as is Ketsui (which I have the 360 port of). Fuck DOJ, especially if it's White Label.
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KAI
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by KAI »

DOJ white=separated scoreboards
Not suitable for tourneys.
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Chaos Phoenixma
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Chaos Phoenixma »

how would that make it unsuitable for a tournament?

And either version of DOJ would be interesting to see how people do, but I wouldn't enjoy playing it much. And I don't think I'd even 1-All DOJ Black considering I pretty much have not played the game since my 1-All of the game.
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

What's the difference between a 1 round or 2 round game of DoJ BL, anyways? Other than Hibachi being tacked on the end of a 1 round, I mean, does the rank increase at a faster rate if you choose to play only a single round, any other less obvious changes than simply a shorter game + TLB?
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TenshiP
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by TenshiP »

Looks like it will be break weak for me. :mrgreen:
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sunburstbasser
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by sunburstbasser »

I got Ketsui running! :shock:

Now updating and re-compiling to see if I can get DOJ working.
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Chirpy13
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Chirpy13 »

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Last edited by Chirpy13 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
dex
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by dex »

EspGaluda:
* Super Sleep Fighters
* Dave Destroy
* Underdogs
* Team Cyberia
* Volkspanzerbalett
* Team Ruen
* Drink 'N' Fly
* Shooting Gangstaz
* Team Denmark
* Hype The Core
* Team Sweden
* TCACTRM
* Team Oldschoolers
* Team Sway Away
* INFINITE FLAMINGOES
* Team Sweet Tacos
= 16

Ketsui:
* Jerry Ellis Shooting Club
* Team Procrastination
* Nanio Shooting Team
* Casino Royale
* Pele Shooting Team
* which 2hu wud u fuk
* Touhou is Harder
* Team Loser
* Dickpenis Cockenstrudel
* Bpwner's Bpwnbardiers
= 10

DOJ:
* Fatloli Luftwaffe
* Attack Ships On Fire
* Team With No Name
* Team Coffer
= 4
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by trap15 »

Welp, that ruins my streak. But that's a good thing :D
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ebarrett
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by ebarrett »

Everyone who voted for this and plays like one credit like they always do must be shot. Repeatedly. In the nuts.
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Chaos Phoenixma
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Re: STGT'12 Week 4 Voting: Cave Week

Post by Chaos Phoenixma »

Touhou is Harder actually went with Ketsui and not DOJ. I'm surprised.
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