2014 Update: Sony's losses DOWN from $5.7 to $2 billion!

[Friendly]

wtf guys ...
STOP DERAILING THIS FUCKING THREAD IN A PS3 VS XBOX360 THREAD

Easy there. This is a thread about Sony and PlayStation, and to get a frame of reference you need to have a look at what the competition brought to the table.

[MX7]

Oh wow, there's a Playstation 3 now? Oh, but it has exactly the same games as the Xbox 360 but none of the decent arcade ports. Got excited there for a minute.

[Friendly]

Oh wow, there's a Playstation 3 now? Oh, but it has exactly the same games as the Xbox 360 but none of the decent arcade ports. Got excited there for a minute.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 04#p784704

[MX7]

Oh wow, there's a Playstation 3 now? Oh, but it has exactly the same games as the Xbox 360 but none of the decent arcade ports. Got excited there for a minute.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 04#p784704

HA HA HA HA that list got funnier the more it went on. OK, the PS3 has exclusives. And together they form the most bland line-up of any console in existence.

[Op Intensify]

OK, the PS3 has exclusives. And together they form the most bland line-up of any console in existence.

The Philips CD-I, 3DO and Atari Jaguar would like to say hi.

[Friendly]

Oh wow, there's a Playstation 3 now? Oh, but it has exactly the same games as the Xbox 360 but none of the decent arcade ports. Got excited there for a minute.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 04#p784704

HA HA HA HA that list got funnier the more it went on. OK, the PS3 has exclusives. And together they form the most bland line-up of any console in existence.

I know this doesn't even deserve a response (yay, baited by the troll): You either have terrible taste or don't know what you are talking about (I assume you don't even know most PS3 exclusives), or a combination of both.

[BIL]

The Philips CD-I, 3DO and Atari Jaguar would like to say hi.

Jesus, when those three are mentioned in rapid succession, I damn near feel nauseous. >_<

Although, they are partially why I'm nostalgia-immune. So thanks, shitty mid-90s consoles!

[MX7]

OK, the PS3 has exclusives. And together they form the most bland line-up of any console in existence.

The Philips CD-I, 3DO and Atari Jaguar would like to say hi.

They'd get on well with the PS3 The CD-I had shitloads of bland karaoke games too. 3DO had the promise of D2; It could rub shoulders with The Last Guardian. Jaguar had Tempest 2000, and a really underrated sound chip, and it looked like a toilet seat. I'd probably go for the Jaguar

[MX7]

I know this doesn't even deserve a response (yay, baited by the troll): You either have terrible taste or don't know what you are talking about (I assume you don't even know most PS3 exclusives), or a combination of both.

Well, as a self proclaimed arbiter of good taste, perhaps you could go through that list you posted and point out which games are good? I have a PS3, and would be interested in finding out

[Op Intensify]

3DO had the promise of D2; It could rub shoulders with The Last Guardian.

But D2 was never going to be a 3DO game. It was for the aborted Panasonic M2 system, which only saw release as the arcade hardware for a few Konami games (i.e. Polystars, Battle Tryst).

You know what was originally planned for the 3DO, though? Metal Gear Solid. Wow, imagine if that had actually happened.

[MX7]

3DO had the promise of D2; It could rub shoulders with The Last Guardian.

But D2 was never going to be a 3DO game. It was for the aborted Panasonic M2 system, which only saw release as the arcade hardware for a few Konami games (i.e. Polystars, Battle Tryst).

You know what was originally planned for the 3DO, though? Metal Gear Solid. Wow, imagine if that had actually happened.

Ah, that's amazing! Going to have to research that.

I think the 3DO was a fascinating console, and it's a real shame that it failed. It was somewhat akin to Moozooh's utopian polemic about a universal platform, and if it had just had a little more investment it could have worked.

[Op Intensify]

They should have skipped the 3DO and waited to develop the M2. The 3DO had about a year to impress customers before it got its ass handed to it by the Playstation and Saturn, which were superior in absolutely every respect besides FMV quality. But the M2 was considerably more powerful, somewhere between the Saturn and Dreamcast, and it could have carved out a solid niche following had it released in 96 or early 97.

I think the 3DO is most notable for being WARP's platform of choice. Kenji Eno put out some truly bizarre and original stuff on the system. Aside from D, there was Oyaji Hunter Mahjong, which put a twist on the usual game of strip mahjong by having you battle perverted old salarymen to rescue the bishoujo from them, and Short Warp, a collection of minigames that remains the only game to be packaged with a condom. Of course, the 3DO also had the first arcade-perfect port of Street Fighter II.

[MX7]

Definitely, it's an absolutely fascinating console, and Kenji Eno and WARP are one of the few developers I consider to have actually done something drastically different with the videogame format. It's this kind of experimentation that's really missing from this console generation. Games like Journey and child of eden are just too glossy and non-threatening to provide anything more than a slightly trippy yet ultimately nebulous experience.

[Skykid]

THIS IS NOT A CONSOLE WAR THREAD

Synopsis for discussion:

- Sony's losses doubled from the previous financial year
- Sony announced to shareholders they will be pursuing a new primary market to replace videogaming (and probably TV's, since they suck at making them.)

Questions for discussion:

- In light of these problems, what will Sony do for the PS4 in terms of design and strategy.
- How is Kaz Hirai's stepping down related, and how will it impact future videogame products.
- Will they learn from errors made with 'multimedia' consoles PS3/Vita and take a new tact.
- Will they include a button that transforms their new console into a hovering disco ball: fun for all the family! TM

Disclaimer:

While Friendly is present on the board you may not insinuate or allude to Sony or their current products as, A; not being clear market leaders or the result of forward-thinking strategy, or B; products you do not find appealing in terms of design/software/marketing.
Any such suggestions constitute instant trolling. Owing to his affiliation by artificial insemination with Sony Corp. TM he is unable to view any opposing platform (or related arguments) as relevant or valuable in any way. Your provocation guarantees retaliation and derailment, please refrain.

Thank you.

[Op Intensify]

Definitely, it's an absolutely fascinating console, and Kenji Eno and WARP are one of the few developers I consider to have actually done something drastically different with the videogame format. It's this kind of experimentation that's really missing from this console generation. Games like Journey and child of eden are just too glossy and non-threatening to provide anything more than a slightly trippy yet ultimately nebulous experience.

What's Eno up to these days, anyway? His current studio Fyto has only released one game; You, Me, and the Cubes for WiiWare. I sent them an email ages ago and never got a reply.

[MX7]

Sorry Skids, trolling will cease

I think Sony really need to focus on something that in the film industry is referred to as 'prestige' productions. These are high quality products, interesting and experimental in nature that do not necessarily make money. The purpose of these projects is instead to associate the brand with edgy, exciting and forward thinking entertainment. Sony used to be pretty ace at doing this, and SCEI have published some fantastic games that have truly pushed the box when it comes to the limitations of the videogame medium. With its sleek design and edgy style, Wipeout is often credited as the game that made videogaming cool, and this certainly impacted on the Playstation brand. ICO and Shadows of the Colossus were both sleek, elegant and extremely expensive to produce, but SCEI published them anyway, not for the money, but the prestige that having such a product associated with the brand would have. Look at Parappa the Rappa, with its simultaneously anachronistic and stylish graphics and its wilfully odd game play. Jumping Flash? Yeah, why the fuck not.

Unfortunately, I fear this association has all but left Sony. Little Big Planet and especially its sequel are fun, but absolutely slight. It doesn't push any boxes. It doesn't feel like a risk. There are no interesting, exclusive 3rd party games either, with developers like Nippon Ichi giving us 'more of the same for people who like this stuff'. The Playstation brand just isn't exciting any more, it's really not cool.

So, somewhat conversely given Sony being currently up shit creak, they're going to have to resist the temptation to pump out FPSs and 'HD remakes' that bask in past glories and really do something new and exciting. A re-branding would be a great symbol of these intentions, but that would only be a start. Bending over backwards to blow Fumito Ueda would also be a good idea, but they cannot just rely on one person. They need something as exciting and risky as ICO was when it first came out, as bizarre and niche as Intelligent Qube, as uncompromising as Demon's Souls. Until they realise this, the Playstation name will continue to be dragged through the mud.

[MX7]

Definitely, it's an absolutely fascinating console, and Kenji Eno and WARP are one of the few developers I consider to have actually done something drastically different with the videogame format. It's this kind of experimentation that's really missing from this console generation. Games like Journey and child of eden are just too glossy and non-threatening to provide anything more than a slightly trippy yet ultimately nebulous experience.

What's Eno up to these days, anyway? His current studio Fyto has only released one game; You, Me, and the Cubes for WiiWare. I sent them an email ages ago and never got a reply.

Beats me. The last release that his name was attributed to that I've played is One Dot Enemies on iOS, and with the best will in the world, one could hardly call it a game...

[Skykid]

Unfortunately, I fear this association has all but left Sony. Little Big Planet and especially its sequel are fun, but absolutely slight. It doesn't push any boxes. It doesn't feel like a risk. There are no interesting, exclusive 3rd party games either, with developers like Nippon Ichi giving us 'more of the same for people who like this stuff'. The Playstation brand just isn't exciting any more, it's really not cool.

Yeah, I agree. This is why I suggested it might well be a good idea to lose the PlayStation moniker and bring out something fresh and edgy again. The PS branding has lost its shine: if anything it's a representation of something old, established and a little boring.

But, as mentioned previously, I don't see Sony as risk takers anymore, but the opposite. The controller is a classic example of being afraid to leave your comfort zone. I would never have envisioned that Sony would go on to use the same controller design for almost twenty years when it debuted in 1994... that's an embarrassing length of time, and representative of why the brand has lost its impact. Consumers want fresh ideas: something proven by Nintendo's second coming with the Wii and DS.

I'm hoping Sony's new console will be a trendbreaker. What I'm most interested in is an App-based system that allows as easy a route to independent amateur game publishing as is found on ios, leading to an en masse rebirth of the bedroom coder. That kind of influx of original ideas may well galvanise the core commercial industry into making some alternatives to FPS's and racing sims.

And a new controller plz, srsly now, stop fuckingaroundalrite?

[Op Intensify]

The controller is a classic example of being afraid to leave your comfort zone.

And a new controller plz, srsly now, stop fuckingaroundalrite?

Would you have preferred the "boomerang?"

They did actually bring out a new standard controller: the SIXAXIS. Problem is, the gyroscope was far too limited to be of any use, and zero third-party studios had any interest in making use of the thing, outside of lifting up dumpster lids in MGS4 or making Ayane's tits bounce in Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2.

We also got the PS Move, which is a huge improvement on the Wii Remote technology, but has suffered from the same lack of developer interest.

[MX7]

I'm hoping Sony's new console will be a trendbreaker. What I'm most interested in is an App-based system that allows as easy a route to independent amateur game publishing as is found on ios, leading to an en masse rebirth of the bedroom coder. That kind of influx of original ideas may well galvanise the core commercial industry into making some alternatives to FPS's and racing sims.

This would be awesome. Sony could completely reduce the price to licence games on the console, and maybe even decrease regulation as well (allowing user reviews should hopefully weed out the turds). Why not make two versions of the console at launch? A normal PlayBastard for general consumption, and a PlayBastard Yarooze, with an intergrated dev-kit. Make it appeal to bedroom coders and indie publishers alike (I DON'T KNOW HOW). Hopefully we'd get a lot more new and exciting games, and a crap-tonne of shmups and visual novels and that kind of thing. A new slogan (FUCK IT, YOU MAKE THE GAMES THEN) would underline how cool Sony have got.

Personally I think they should make the specs of the next console pretty much the same as the current one, and focus on ease of development. We've got to a point where making games has become a massive undertaking as opposed to an autueristic labour of love.

[Skykid]

The controller is a classic example of being afraid to leave your comfort zone.

And a new controller plz, srsly now, stop fuckingaroundalrite?

Would you have preferred the "boomerang?"

Lawd no.

I know the Sixaxis and dual shock iterations improved or added additional features, but the base ergonomics haven't been changed in eighteen years. Then again if the boomerang is the limits of their R&D's design capabilities, I know why.

IMO the DS controller design is outdated and should be posthumously committed to the grave. I wouldn't even say its necessary as much as it is imperative to making the PS3 successor look fresh n' new.

PlayBastard Yarooze

Lmao!

I'm with you though, I think Nintendo have demonstrated that waggling the size of your processing penis doesn't count for much these days. I'm hoping that we see ease of content, a huge proportion of which being amateur produced works at rock bottom prices (or even free, as is the current smartphone trend). It's the only thing I can see driving commercial gaming away from multi-million dollar projects and into smaller more creative pursuits, and then hopefully we'll see the likes of Yotsubane and co pushing Doujin shmups into the mainstream.

[Op Intensify]

Microsoft already tried what you guys are suggesting with XBL Indie Games. Aside from a few standout works like Jewelry Master Twinkle and Protect Me Knight, it was a complete and utter failure, flooded with "massage" and fart apps, Action 52-level platformers and other such garbage.

[moozooh]

They did actually bring out a new standard controller: the SIXAXIS.

> sixaxis
> new

Yeah... uh-huh. Take another look before you're universally disqualified from using the word "new". Here are the main PlayStation controllers, left to right: DualShock (PS1), DiualShock 2 (PS2), DualShock 3, Sixaxis (both PS3):



Twenty years of innovation before your eyes. For comparison, Here are the Nintendo controllers, left to right: SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U.



Not to say they're all more comfortable than the DualShocks/Sixaxis (those I've tried all are though), but at least Nintendo is always coming up with something new.

[Op Intensify]

It added the gyroscope, which added an entirely new dimension of control (however inadequate and underutilized) that had no equivalents in any earlier controllers besides the Wii Remote.

Also, nice job breaking the thread with your huge images.

[Skykid]

Microsoft already tried what you guys are suggesting with XBL Indie Games. Aside from a few standout works like Jewelry Master Twinkle and Protect Me Knight, it was a complete and utter failure, flooded with "massage" and fart apps, Action 52-level platformers and other such garbage.

But what if the core setup was based around Apple's app strategy, thus making it more focussed and less splintered. Rather than having an indie 'section', they should just be part and parcel of a catalogue featuring games being priced to move from as little as $1, all the way up to $30. Sure, you would get a lot of crap on there, but the choice and scope would be enormous, and the press and word of mouth would serve as a good buyers guide.

The only think I hate passionately about ios apps is the layout: it's dire. You can't find anything properly and all the smaller stuff gets unfairly pushed out of sight. It's really poorly designed for navigation. If either Sony or MS could solve that by having proper navigation and categorising interfaces, it could be a burgeoning market for bedroom coders.

Also, nice job breaking the thread with your huge images.

They display ok for me on a 13.3" monitor.

[Op Intensify]

But what if the core setup was based around Apple's app strategy, thus making it more focussed and less splintered. Rather than having an indie 'section', they should just be part and parcel of a catalogue featuring games being priced to move from as little as $1, all the way up to $30. Sure, you would get a lot of crap on there, but the choice and scope would be enormous, and the press and word of mouth would serve as a good buyers guide.

That's pretty much how things already are on PSN, and that's hardly been a major success.

[Skykid]

But what if the core setup was based around Apple's app strategy, thus making it more focussed and less splintered. Rather than having an indie 'section', they should just be part and parcel of a catalogue featuring games being priced to move from as little as $1, all the way up to $30. Sure, you would get a lot of crap on there, but the choice and scope would be enormous, and the press and word of mouth would serve as a good buyers guide.

That's pretty much how things already are on PSN, and that's hardly been a major success.

But it's not the core setup. I'm basically talking supplanting the entire Apple setup onto a console.

Oh god, I'm basically talking supplanting the entire Apple setup onto a console.

Must hail mary. Deliver me from these demons, this isn't the future of gaming I was looking for.

[Friendly]

Skykid, you are now on my ignore-list; while I can still see topics created by you, all of your posts are automatically blocked from my view.

This is not a step I take lightly, but I feel you don't contribute content of enough intellectual value to justify tolerating your very low signal-to-noise ratio.
While you feel the need to comment on just about anything that is ever written in this forum, most of your posts demonstrate a rather limited understanding concerning a broad variety of subjects, whereas your constant provocations are just a waste of bandwidth and more importantly, time. Don't misunderstand me; I do very much enjoy thought-provoking ideas, but that's not the kind of provocation you incessantly engage in.
From my perspective, very little good has come out of talking to you (and I really tried). I can't (and don't want to) educate you; and asking you to "smarten up" would be akin to asking someone to grow a pair of wings- a matter of impossibility.

There are a number of intelligent, knowledgable, genuinely helpful and friendly people here whose input I value. This forum is much superior to most other video-game related boards in this regard. And since I would like to continue to enjoy this forum without you continuously lessening the experience for me, blocking you seems like the most sensible course of action; mentally ignoring someone simply doesn't work.

I may eventually unblock you to see if you have changed (though I don't really see any potential for that) or in case this measure proves to be too disrupting.

[louisg]

I think the 3DO was a fascinating console, and it's a real shame that it failed. It was somewhat akin to Moozooh's utopian polemic about a universal platform, and if it had just had a little more investment it could have worked.

It's what happens when your console is $599! Seriously, the 3do was that exact price. It's a good little machine that didn't have much support. I was just playing the first Need For Speed and thinking that it probably could've kept up with the later consoles if it had more good games for it-- NFS is amazing. It was the first full textured 3d game of its type (spiritual sequel to Test Drive), looked good, ran well... 3do was definitely in the ballpark for that generation tech-wise, and I'm not sure I can say that about the (much cheaper) Jag.

The M2 also would've been great to see, outside of Konami's use in arcade machines. Were there any unreleased games developed for it? Emulator?

The M2 technology is still in use today. It is mostly used in automated teller machines, and in Japan in coffee vending machines.

Hahaha

[Friendly]

On topic: Hirai didn't suddenly resign as head of Sony Computer Entertainment; it was decided when he was selected as next CEO of Sony. It's really not possible to effectively fill these two positions at the same time.