Redux (DUX 2) (DC/iOS/Steam), Trailer up - PC Demo out

[psoslayer]

I'm glad it made the total so quickly as I didn't have to put into it and it saved me some money I'll wait for the PC version. Hopefully the sucess of the KS will go a long way to getting it on Steam.

Its a shame those DC discs don't have the PC version on it as well.

Anyway, congrats psoslayer

Huh? For starting this thread? thanks lol

Now I wish I'd get percentages for all kickstarter threads I start.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

oh my bad I thought you were the guy behind the KS

[psoslayer]

Well, I'm quite a fan ob fundraising, maybe I come off to enthusiastic, no problem mate.

Btw, is there any other shmup on kickstarter?

[psoslayer]

The funding goals was just stretched: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/red ... -dreamcast

Code: Select all

• $40,000: EXTRA SHIP WITH NEW WEAPONS (see picture for additional ship mockup!)
• $60,000: ANOTHER STAGE, "DARK PLANET" (see picture background!)

[Zaarock]

One ship and a stage need more funds to be completed than the game itself? sure..

[jochen]

Sounds like the Redux-Versions for Xbox 360 and the PS3 will have some downloadable
content.

[honorless]

One ship and a stage need more funds to be completed than the game itself? sure..

I'm pretty sure the funding goal for "the game itself" is low because so much of the work is already done.

These new additions would have to be designed, programmed, composed for and playtested/balanced from...well, not zero, but I think you get the gist.

[stuntman]

Yes, there will be option for original purchasers to get 1.5 disc for free. More on this once the pledge goal was reached.

Yes! Goal reached. Should be getting this update real soon now..........
....................

[CloudyMusic]

One ship and a stage need more funds to be completed than the game itself? sure..

So-called "stretch goals" are pretty common for Kickstarter games; in general, they're additional things that the developer is claiming they'll add to the game (that aren't planned as a part of the base package) if the amount of funding they receive greatly exceeds their baseline target (e.g.: "if we get $40,000, we'll put an extra level in the game", etc). It's usually not so much that such things would take more funds to make than the game itself, but rather that the developer will expand the scope of the game content if the Kickstarter donors pledge enough money.

As with anything on Kickstarter, though, I'm pretty sure there's nothing to keep the developer from reneging on those promises if they feel like it.

[psoslayer]

Good thing about stretch goals is, that customers don't pay more, they'll just get more for their money.

For those who care, here's a statement about free 1.5 disc https://www.facebook.com/reduxgame

[psoslayer]

First stretch goal was reached, let's see if it reaches that 60k goal.

There's also pledging with PayPal... but it ends at 8th June kickstarter.

[Sier]

There's a Redux feature & interview here: http://t.co/jURCbzj1

[psoslayer]

Thanks for posting that, Sier. I hope this game, and Gunlord, get's an 3DS release.

[lilmanjs]

that interview was very nice. and I can't wait to hear the DUX 1.5 soundtrack

[Observer]

Good to see a shmup doing so well on Kickstarter. Could set an interesting case for future approaches! Also, extremely glad it's also coming to PC. You got yourselves an insta-purchase with that.

[Orrpus]

Only 22 hours left.

Remember: The limited edition will only be available, right now, exclusively through this Kickstarter campaign.
You can also pledge as much as you want on www.reduxgame.com via PayPal - this offer expires at 8th June, too.

I hope they reach the 60k stretch goal. I'd like to see the new level and the two player mode.

[Friendly]

These people appear to be quite money-grubbing; I find that rather off-putting. $10,000 for a new ship? L-O-L. We give them lots of money not in order for them to be able to create the game, but so they can make even MORE money by selling it on on Steam, iOS, PSN, XBLA. And we are not loaning them this moeny, we donate it. I'd like a share of the digital distribution profits in return for investing. How about that instead of two overpriced pressed Dreamcast CDs (value of raw materials: pressed CDs (2,000 units) + printing (8-page booklet 6-color offset) + packaging (6-color offset) + shrink wrap= $2 USD per unit)? They don't even give the backers digital copies. They run a kickstarter to fund digital distribution but don't even give those who donated the finished product. If that isn't shameless, what is?

Do I sound bitter? I am not. I'm just doing the math. This isn't doujin/indie. This is profit maximization. Just wait for them to start selling additional DLC once the game is ported. As one backer on the kickstarter page aptly put it: "Let the milking begin". Have a look at Japanese doujin devs. I don't recall them selling any overpriced "limited editions" (lulz) in order to make more moneyz, the notable exception being Broken Thunder from 2007, remember that gem?

PS.
Wasn't there an old thread by someone who shall remain un-named, about donating money to Cave (you know, that Japanese world-class shmup developer with a great track record)? And remember how everyone laughed? This seems similar, except of course for the world-class and great track record parts, and the fact that it's actually happening.

[psoslayer]

This isn't doujin/indie. This is profit maximization.

It's made by companies, sure it's profit maximization. It does not say "We're Indie, please support us" anywhere.

[Friendly]

This isn't doujin/indie. This is profit maximization.

It's made by companies, sure it's profit maximization. It does not say "We're Indie, please support us" anywhere.

Let's do a search on the kickstarter page.

indie shmup

Pledge your support

You are right, though, they forgot to say "please".

[daliscar]

It's made by companies, sure it's profit maximization. It does not say "We're Indie, please support us" anywhere.

No- companies recieve their money from shareholders who directly benefit from the company's performance and profits from sales. It's greed but everyone who's in gets a slice.
This on the other hand is just moneygrabbing. Surely the way that the kickstarter target was suddenly stretched for the promise of extra content tells you that?
Anyway this is all so much hot air since, as I said before, this will be ridiculously delayed and when/if it finally arrives will not have the promised content.
Prove me wrong

[Paradigm]

These people appear to be quite money-grubbing

I agree. NG:Dev Team's approach has always been to target the Neo Geo collectors, ie people crazy/stupid enough to spend ridiculous amounts of money on games regardless of their quality. It's a nice easy way of making profit from shitty games.

I know Redux isn't technically NG:Dev Team, but it may as well be, this is just a different way of scrounging as much money as possible for a game destined for mediocrity (if even that).

Wasn't there an old thread by someone who shall remain un-named, about donating money to Cave (you know, that Japanese world-class shmup developer with a great track record)? And remember how everyone laughed? This seems similar, except of course for the world-class and great track record parts, and the fact that it's actually happening.

.

It makes you wonder, if a project like this can raise $50k, what could established devs like CAVE and G.rev make from kickstarter? I'd pledge toward those in a heartbeat.

[Jeneki]

On the bright side, maybe this kickstarter is what generated enough cash to revisit the replacement disc promise (as noted on the facebook page). I gave up on ever seeing it.

[HydrogLox]

$10,000 for a new ship? L-O-L. We give them lots of money not in order for them to be able to create the game, but so they can make even MORE money by selling it on on Steam, iOS, PSN, XBLA.

$10,000 doesn't go very far in the corporate world of software development. For a complicated niche system that may get you a specialist body for two weeks. If you find a bargain you may get a "competent" developer for 4 weeks - or a not-so-competent one for 6 (not a bargain).
If they are targeting a full blown XBLA release rather than an "Xbox Live Indie Game" (which they should because it is too easy to get drowned out in the indie section) the fees for Microsoft will be up there - not to mention the commericially licensed toolkits (Visual Studio Professional, $1000 per seat; etc.), as I would imagine that only indies are allowed to use the free tools.

And we are not loaning them this money, we donate it.

It's only a donation if you don't get the reward. Otherwise it is just a preorder where you pay to create something. So if it is a donation the project is a failure.
Now even if you get the reward it still can be crap, so it is understandable if somebody declines if they felt burned by the original Dux.

How about that instead of two overpriced pressed Dreamcast CDs (value of raw materials: pressed CDs (2,000 units) + printing (8-page booklet 6-color offset) + packaging (6-color offset) + shrink wrap= $2 USD per unit)? They don't even give the backers digital copies

An "overpiced" XBox 360 DVD-9 and CD of "Mushihimesama HD Limited Edition" goes for US$128.90 over at NCSX and over at Solaris Japan you can find a new Dreamcast Border Down Limited Edition (1 GD-ROM + 1 CD) for US$201.35. So US$100 for recent limited edition release or US$65 for a standard release in a highly niche genre (i.e. very limited customer base) is not out of line. What would make it overpriced is if the Dreamcast Dux 1.5/Redux Dark Matters and/or OST is utter crap which is a very real risk even if the project is successful.

Just wait for them to start selling additional DLC once the game is ported.

It seems likely that the extra ship and level will be extra DLC for XBLA - provided enough licenses of the original are sold in the first place. So whether or not these will appear in the Dreamcast version it completely up to the discretion of the developer/publisher.

They run a kickstarter to fund digital distribution but don't even give those who donated the finished product. If that isn't shameless, what is? Do I sound bitter? I am not. I'm just doing the math. This isn't doujin/indie. This is profit maximization.

Digital licenses can present their own problems. All licences go through Apple, Microsoft and Steam respectively - and they could charge anyone, even the developer/publisher the full price for each licence. If that is the case the developer/publisher would have to pony up the full amount for give-away licenses before any profits have even been generated - which is fine if you are Activision, Electronic Arts, Microsoft Studio but is prohibitive if you are a one/two/three person development team. It is just simpler to have everybody buy their own digital license once it is available. The release schedule suggests that all of the money will go into iOS developemnt in the hope of setting up an additional revenue stream as early as possible. Any money that remains and the iOS profits will then go towards XBox 360/PC development. Dreamcast development is probably mostly done but will only finish once XBox 360/PC development is complete, as there is an extremely limited commercial potential in the Dreamcast implementation. The kickstarter money isn't about profit - its creates the potential to generate profit - hopefully.

[Friendly]

$10,000 for a new ship? L-O-L. We give them lots of money not in order for them to be able to create the game, but so they can make even MORE money by selling it on on Steam, iOS, PSN, XBLA.

$10,000 doesn't go very far in the corporate world of software development.

"Indie".

Anyway, you don't seem to get it. He does:

this is just a different way of scrounging as much money as possible for a game destined for mediocrity (if even that).

Indeed. If this was a PC-release, no-one in their right mind would have paid $65-$100 USD for it.

[HydrogLox]

"Indie".

It's about opportunity cost. A person may trade off pay in order to work on something they love but there comes point were it is just not worth it. In this context "indie" simply means: "not backed by a controlling multinational like Activision, Electronic Arts, Microsoft Studio, Ubisoft etc".

[Friendly]

Not the point. In your above post you actually put a mediocre, unlicensed homebrew game on a level with Border Down and Mushihimesama (both professional, universally acclaimed, licensed, official releases).
That alone disqualifies your opinion.

Reapeat after me:

money-grubbing

profit maximization

a game destined for mediocrity (if even that)

Those are the issues at hand.

[HydrogLox]

Anyway, you don't seem to get it. He does:

this is just a different way of scrounging as much money as possible for a game destined for mediocrity (if even that).

Indeed. If this was a PC-release, no-one in their right mind would have paid $65-$100 USD for it.

I already acknowledged that the resulting end product could be sub-par (especially going by historical evidence). And somebody would have paid it, especially for a physical release - just not anywhere near the number to make it worthwhile.

PS. Wasn't there an old thread by someone who shall remain un-named, about donating money to Cave (you know, that Japanese world-class shmup developer with a great track record)? And remember how everyone laughed? This seems similar, except of course for the world-class and great track record parts, and the fact that it's actually happening.

You seem to miss that now the Redux funding has been successful it is out there for Cave and G.rev to see that it can work. However neither of them have the mainstream appeal that Double Fine has which targeted $400,000 and got $3,300,000+ http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dou ... e?ref=live - Cave or G.rev probably can't do that much with $50,000 either. Even in the Kickstarter world you can never get more than you pay for, only less. Furthermore the culture at Cave and G.rev probably prevents them from taking advantage from these types of opportunities and stick to more traditional business practices.

[HydrogLox]

Not the point. In your above post you actually put a mediocre, unlicensed homebrew game on a level with Border Down and Mushihimesama (both professional, universally acclaimed, licensed, official releases).
That alone disqualifies your opinion.

It is easy to look in the rear view mirror. Limited Releases are always priced through the roof before anyone knows what they are actually getting. Even professional, universally acclaimed, software houses can turn out turds - Cave had all the confidence in 5PB when they handed over the DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou Black Label Extra port. Yes, they were professional enough to clean up the mess - much, much later. Meanwhile 5PB went on to port Ketsui and create Bullet Soul - not to universal acclaim but good enough.
Should René Hellwig have promised replacement discs when he lacked the financial means to do so - no. Frankly patching console games only became commonplace during the 7th generation, so much that there is a disease of prematurely released games. During the 6th generation it was unreasonable to expect disc replacement for software bugs - I don't recall "Jak and Daxter X Combat Racing" discs being replaced just because it had a tendency to corrupt entire memory cards - the bug was still present in the "Greatest Hits" version.

[Friendly]

Here, that has nothing do do with anything, either, but at least it's funny to look at.

[bcass]

As a donator to this project, personally I think they'll have problems getting this onto PSN or XBLA. I think it looks good, but I can't see Sony or Microsoft taking it. The quality on those two services has sky rocketed over the last few years, so both platform holders can afford to be very picky about what gets published. Compare the early shoddy arcade ports that used to appear compared to something like Fez or Journey to see how far those services have come.