Sony report $2.9 Billion Annual Loss

[Estebang]

Yeah, so far no one has been able to pirate Vita games, but they've cracked the PSP emulator and managed to get the device into a mode where it thinks it's an Android phone, opening up numerous possibilities. Won't be much longer.

The 3DS seems pretty damn secure. The pirates have had zero progress with it last I checked.

[Ex-Cyber]

The 3DS seems pretty damn secure. The pirates have had zero progress with it last I checked.

I've seen a few hints (though nothing conclusive, naturally) that the "homebrew or bust" types know a hell of a lot more than they're letting on publicly. It might just be that there's limited overlap between the knowledge and desire necessary to produce a flash card.

[neorichieb1971]

Vita is a waste of money for everyone concerned, even Sony. Just imagine how many good PS3 games could have been made with how ever many hundreds of millions of $$$$ squandered on another failure.

[StarCreator]

The 3DS seems pretty damn secure. The pirates have had zero progress with it last I checked.

I'd be more willing to bet there just isn't enough interest in the 3DS among people with the skills to hack it.

[louisg]

The 3DS seems pretty damn secure. The pirates have had zero progress with it last I checked.

I'd be more willing to bet there just isn't enough interest in the 3DS among people with the skills to hack it.

It's also pretty early. Hasn't it been out less than a year?

[StarCreator]

It's also pretty early. Hasn't it been out less than a year?

It didn't take nearly a year for the PSP, DS, and apparently now the Vita to be hacked to bits.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Just imagine how many good PS3 games could have been made with how ever many hundreds of millions of $$$$ squandered on another failure.

What was the other failure?

[Friendly]

Just imagine how many good PS3 games could have been made with how ever many hundreds of millions of $$$$ squandered on another failure.

What was the other failure?

Furthermore, PS Vita has only been available in Japan for 6 weeks and hasn't even been released elsewhere yet. A bit early to call it a failure.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Someone once said to me there will never be another Outrun!! I know what he means now. Its a state of the art game that was so ahead of its time that just had that magical element you can't describe. Could you say that about anything these days?

Considering that Outrun made it's grand debut in the arcades back in 1986, it was a refreshing experience to insert a credit and play it as it was meant to be with a vibrating steering wheel setup (that couldn't be replicated at home, of course). With the follow up of Turbo Outrun (circa 1988) & Outrunners arcade releases, they were awesome as well. Of course, the arcade scene nowdays, is quite different. Will the modern-day arcade ever attain the cult status of like how it really was back during the golden age of the arcades (the early 1980s)? Sadly, there won't be anything like those early days of the arcades. It seemed like every week, there was always a new & innovative arcade game being released and the chance to try it out was well worth the wait. Until arcade operators decided that it'd be cool to charge two credits per game instead of a single credit, that made playing arcade games a really expensive hobby from that point on. It forced you to learn to play said arcade game with the fewest amount of credits spent if you decided to learn the finer points of mastering it.

Back in January of 1990, I was at a video rental store in Fresno, CA and they had a little arcade inside a seperate room enclosure. After browsing inside this little arcade, I did see an interesting layout going on: Defender, Stargate, Ms. Pac-Man, etc. -- all the cool arcade superstars from the early '80s inside this little arcade...a precursor to the "private arcades" where an classic arcade gamer has his or her favorite games that they used to play back in the day. They were all in mint/restored condition as far I could tell which was amazing (as most arcades didn't bother stocking up on the older arcade classics) and was a special exception. I could sense that all the chosen arcade cabs were in there because of the solid gameplay they provided that the current arcade game titles being offered, couldn't do justice. It was an interesting feeling/point of observation upon looking at some of those classic arcade cabs that particular day in a new light. This predates the inception of the California Extreme show in 1997 by a mere seven years with their inside nod/tribute to the early '80s arcade games.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[FetusZero]

And i blame Sony for being fucking douches not to let other companies like CAVE be able to release games on their platform and forcing ridicilous restrictions like 16:9 mode in every game etc.

They can suck my dick.

After having worked (and still am today) in the video game industry for quite a few years and being specialized in Compliance, I can tell you that Sony is the least restrictive platform to work with than any console out there. Microsoft are more restricted and everything has to be their way, and Nintendo is a really big joke in those terms, they are the pickiest company I've ever seen when it comes to restrictions. So next time you make such a "statement", make sure you have the actual experience to do so. Sorry to bring it down like this, but what you said is just ridiculous.

By the way, 16:9 support is mandatory for every modern consoles.

[GaijinPunch]

Vita is a waste of money for everyone concerned, even Sony. Just imagine how many good PS3 games could have been made with how ever many hundreds of millions of $$$$ squandered on another failure.

Um zero, unless they put that money towards a time machine.

[neorichieb1971]

Just imagine how many good PS3 games could have been made with how ever many hundreds of millions of $$$$ squandered on another failure.

What was the other failure?

PSP GO!

Vita is a waste of money for everyone concerned, even Sony. Just imagine how many good PS3 games could have been made with how ever many hundreds of millions of $$$$ squandered on another failure.

Um zero, unless they put that money towards a time machine.

Time machine?

Are handhelds of today much better than handhelds of yesteryear? The most amazing thing about handhelds is that they now play games that you can play in your house. Except, thats where the games belonged, in your house! Bringing them onto a handheld usually consists of extra squinting, hurting hands, reflections on the screne, batteries running low and bits falling off it. Vita is by no means any different in any of those regards. And plus on top of that it has highly priced software forced on you. If I worked in Sony in a high position I would have used my vote to block it every step of the way.

[ancestral-knowledge]

And i blame Sony for being fucking douches not to let other companies like CAVE be able to release games on their platform and forcing ridicilous restrictions like 16:9 mode in every game etc.

They can suck my dick.

After having worked (and still am today) in the video game industry for quite a few years and being specialized in Compliance, I can tell you that Sony is the least restrictive platform to work with than any console out there. Microsoft are more restricted and everything has to be their way, and Nintendo is a really big joke in those terms, they are the pickiest company I've ever seen when it comes to restrictions. So next time you make such a "statement", make sure you have the actual experience to do so. Sorry to bring it down like this, but what you said is just ridiculous.

By the way, 16:9 support is mandatory for every modern consoles.

Okay then i was wrong. Sorry.
Then what are the reasons that CAVE seems to be only releasing their games on xbox360 rather than PS3? region locking? easier to code for? What is the reason a japanese company, that produces games that are mostly suited for a japanese audience releases their games solely on a console that most japanese people seem to dislike (for whatever reasons). I just don't get it.

[Specineff]

After having worked (and still am today) in the video game industry for quite a few years and being specialized in Compliance, I can tell you that Sony is the least restrictive platform to work with than any console out there. Microsoft are more restricted and everything has to be their way, and Nintendo is a really big joke in those terms, they are the pickiest company I've ever seen when it comes to restrictions

Interesting. Can you give us some examples? I'm curious because it would make Cave's decision to release their games on the 360 and not the PS3 even more amazing. And I thought Nintendo had changed their ways after the N64 losing so much share to the PS1, and the Cube not recapturing the market.

EDIT: Didn't see Ancestral's post on time, so yeah, my question reflects his.

[FetusZero]

The reason CAVE doesn't release games on PS3 could be many, it could be because SONY is not interested in CAVE titles, or it can be because Microsoft made them sign an exclusivity contract. And in a way, it is much easier for developers to put out a game on Microsoft due to the restrictions themselves as weird as it can sound. I'll try to explain it in an easier way to understand than what I've posted earlier (I could give actual examples, but unfortunately these kind of documents and information are confidential). Oh and nah, it's not region locking. Well.. not that I know of, but CAVE should definitely make more region-free titles lol, I wouldn't mind importing more of them.

With Microsoft, due to the restrictions imposed, your game has to be a certain way. While it seems to lack freedom at first, it also makes it easier to do everything because you pretty much have a path already laid out before you on how to do things. So if you implement something in your game, there isn't 300 ways to do it; There's one way and it works.

With Sony, as with the other manufacturers you have restrictions, however when you come out and do something, instead of having a path laid out before you, you end up with dozens of different ways to do it. It's extremely vague at best and because of it, I often see developers being confused and not really knowing how or what to do about it, how to implement certain things because they have no idea what they can or cannot do with it. Not enough restrictions is just as worst as too many.

As for Nintendo.. They just enjoy throwing a fit every now and then. I still can hardly understand them, if at all, with their magical restrictions appearing out of thin air when they feel like it.

Of course, these are only examples on being compliant with each manufacturer, your game can still have the content you want it to have, but it just needs to be handled a certain way. Sony is generally much more open-minded to features and stuff that Microsoft doesn't want, like with the integration of Steamworks in Portal 2 and CS:GO, or DUST 514 which connects directly to EVE Online, both ideas which were refused or just too complicated to deal with when it came to Microsoft.

As for the contracts and stuff, it's been seen several times before from both sides. So the reasons behind it could be that the PS3 is complicated to code on while on X360 it's always been easy (which was stated by several developers over the years), they signed an exclusivity contract with Microsoft, CAVE simply doesn't like the PS3, or Sony wasn't interested in having CAVE games (which would be a shame, but it's been stated before that SCEJ didn't directly make the best of choices this gen).

Fear not though, as (unfortunately for me who wants their games on PC), they do have plans with Sony eventually and said they will do so before moving on to PC, which I found on Siliconera and they speak a little bit of why they aren't on PS3 yet, but there's not much details about it. http://www.siliconera.com/2011/11/11/ca ... ise-again/

EDIT: Just got back from my appointment, re-read my posts. Thought an apology may be needed, that first post sounded a lot harsher than I expected it to be last night. The wonders of a night :]

[kid aphex]

"All good things..."
Sony is kind of doomed.
The way they operate, on every single level of their business, just doesn't jive with what reality (more specifically, capitalism) has become.
In short, all of Sony's idiosyncrasies have become unvalued by consumers.
With the exception of SCEI, I think the company should simplify ... maybe even withdraw from the hardware world market

A great book to read in order to understand just how amazing a company Sony is/was (and why they're just not compatible with what is emerging as 'the future markets') is "The Private Life" by John Nathan. Nathan was allowed AMAZING access into Sony Corp; regardless of whether or not you're interested in books about business strategy, the history of the company that emerges is so candid and interesting ... it's worth wading through all the business talk.

[Estebang]

There won't be any vertical Cave shmups on PS3 because Sony requires that all retail PS3 games have a 16:9 mode. I believe it has to do with not wanting to diminish the perceived value of Blu-ray. And since all their vert games are 2D, a conversion job like Mamoru-kun or Under Defeat HD's 16:9 modes isn't possible.

[GaijinPunch]

Are handhelds of today much better than handhelds of yesteryear? .

No, but games in general get shittier as time goes on.

[louisg]

Are handhelds of today much better than handhelds of yesteryear? .

No, but games in general get shittier as time goes on.

See: Lynx thread

[Skykid]

Are handhelds of today much better than handhelds of yesteryear? .

No, but games in general get shittier as time goes on.

Industry gets bigger, products get shittier. Guaranteed curse of profit by speed versus consumption.

[louisg]

Are handhelds of today much better than handhelds of yesteryear? .

No, but games in general get shittier as time goes on.

Industry gets bigger, products get shittier. Guaranteed curse of profit by speed versus consumption.

There are definite sweet spots. I liked the last generation a lot, as I did the 16-bit gen (and preferred that one over the 8-bit consoles!). All the time, the industry was growing. And you definitely can't say that this generation is worse than the absolute clusterfuck that were the 32-bit consoles. Handheld-wise, I think the GBA and DS were both better in playability than the original GB (easily!). PSP seems like a good machine too, though I don't own one myself. It sort of ebbs and flows I think. Right now remember that we're in a nebulous between-generation era.

And sometimes, you expect the next generation to be good in exactly the same way that the previous generation was. It won't be, but that shouldn't stop you from finding the good games! I really think that a lot of the interesting stuff this gen is in downloadables, for example.

[Skykid]

And you definitely can't say that this generation is worse than the absolute clusterfuck that were the 32-bit consoles.

For serious?

It is.

Re: the comment, think more along the lines of enormous, Hollywood sized industries, where everything suddenly transforms into a factory production line mentality to keep up with demand/competition. Videogaming has been growing since the Famicom, but I don't think it really went supernova mainstream until the PS2.

[louisg]

And you definitely can't say that this generation is worse than the absolute clusterfuck that were the 32-bit consoles.

For serious?

It is.

I'll disagree on the grounds that at least in 2012 developers understand how 3d works. Of course, if I had known about all the arcade port imports, I would've just bought a Saturn during the mid-90s instead and played all the awesome 2d games!

It is maybe a little similar to that generation in that one of the top consoles breaks after about a month of use

Re: the comment, think more along the lines of enormous, Hollywood sized industries, where everything suddenly transforms into a factory production line mentality to keep up with demand/competition. Videogaming has been growing since the Famicom, but I don't think it really went supernova mainstream until the PS2.

I see where you're coming from. But for every overblown turd like Bioshock, there are some great games which are a lot smaller that put gameplay first. Even just in terms of downloadables, you get stuff like Pac Man CE, Trials HD, and SI Extreme. And then the Mario Galaxy games this generation are, imo, easily the best Mario's been since Super Mario World. There's the return of the adventure game with the stuff Telltale is releasing (which, from what I saw, appear to be pretty good!).

I think there's a lot to like about the current generation, but the dust has to settle first. And there will always be smaller game studios doing interesting things.

[R79]

If anything, they have experienced exponential decay since the genuinely exciting 32-bit era. Only reason I ever bought a PS2 was for FFX, VF4, and the CAVE and Psikyo conversions, which, for the most part, were excellent. Can't really see any exclusive software reason to buy their console this gen. Losing Final Fantasy was surely a pretty big deal? Just like it was for Nintendo in 1996. The circle is now complete. Plus the fact that their online network security was massively compromised, and even now, the actual service is sketchy, is a major strike against them, I feel.

As for the hand-helds... not really my cup of tea anyway, but I guess a few cash-rich tech hipsters may take a look.

I have got a Sony phone though!!

[Jonathan Ingram]

What disappoints me is when a game is meant to be something else - in the way Yakuza should be a similar experience to Shenmue - but fails to make the grade because after fifteen minutes of playing you realise it's been stuffed with pointless superficial crap in an attempt to be "current", and it just puts you to sleep.

I`m replaying Shenmue right now and I couldn`t disagree more. Playing a slowass sailor-finding simulator starring Baby Boy Ryo that everyone makes fun of and whom even bars don`t sell drinks to because he is too much of a sucker is so, sooo much less compelling than playing as a motherfucking Kazuma "Dragon of Dojima" Kiryu, the 4th chairman of the Tojo Clan, the eternal champion of the Kamurocho underground battle arena, the master of all martial arts and a rock star.

[Friendly]

Of course since gaming has become more mainstream, many games are mainstream, and many of them aren't very good (basically on-rails experiences). That is to be expected: In order to appeal to dumb people (which is what most are), the easiest way to ensure sales is to create dumb games; so this is what publishers are doing.

However, there are also many excellent games this generation, you just need to know where to look. For instance, by ignoring handhelds you miss out on many great 2D games on DS and PSP. Especially DSi XL is awesome for 2D (yes, the screen is small, get over it). There are several excellent PSN/XBLA games. There are even some very good 2D games on Wii.

Saying there is nothing good this generation is VERY ignorant; it just shows you have no clue what you are talking about.

[Skykid]

What disappoints me is when a game is meant to be something else - in the way Yakuza should be a similar experience to Shenmue - but fails to make the grade because after fifteen minutes of playing you realise it's been stuffed with pointless superficial crap in an attempt to be "current", and it just puts you to sleep.

I`m replaying Shenmue right now and I couldn`t disagree more. Playing a slowass sailor-finding simulator starring Baby Boy Ryo that everyone makes fun of and whom even bars don`t sell drinks to because he is too much of a sucker is so, sooo much less compelling than playing as a motherfucking Kazuma "Dragon of Dojima" Kiryu, the 4th chairman of the Tojo Clan, the eternal champion of the Kamurocho underground battle arena, the master of all martial arts and a rock star.

It's not a character popularity contest I was talking about, but the game. Shenmue is better structured than pretty much every Yakuza up to 4.

Otherwise Shenmue would be long forgotten in the wake of Yakuza - which it's not.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Shenmue is better structured than pretty much every Yakuza up to 4.

In what way?

[Skykid]

Shenmue is better structured than pretty much every Yakuza up to 4.

In what way?

Not being slow, drawn out and boring with crap combat.

EDIT: Let me massage that a little. I don't have anything against Yakuza, it's better than some (partly down to the setting/theme) but I always felt the series had pacing issue and didn't feel anywhere near as well formed on the whole than Suzuki's games. 3 was a bit tiresome, but 4 felt like it hit its stride with its diverging character/plotline setup.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Not being slow, drawn out and boring with crap combat.

That`s Shenmue in a nutshell, especially the first one. Cramped locations with nothing to do, tank controls and a VF imported battle system that shouldn`t belong in a game of this type. I`ve always liked Shenmue as an experience, but as an actual game it`s not much better than something like Heavy Rain.

but I always felt the series had pacing issue

I think nothing spells "pacing issue" more than Shenmue`s "come tomorrow at noon" when you`re forced to wait for a certain amount of time before you can advance the story only to be treated to another "come tomorrow at noon". Wouldn`t be much of an issue if Shenmue had something you could occupy yourself with, but alas it doesn`t.