Metal Gear Rising (developed by Platinum Games)

[Strider77]

It's not boring... IT'S NOT BORING!!!

I am also a member of the "creepy" metal gear fanbase . That one was at least fresh and made me chuckle a bit.

Don't lie Skykid... you know you didn't find the showdown between Metal Gear Rex and Ray boring in part 4. Not as boring as Secret of Mana anyway.

[Blade]

What the heck guys? You guys are all concerned about Metal Gear's story????

IT'S AN ACTION GAME! What story???

What about the execution of said game??? Will it be anything like MGS2? Or just another Nanobreaker or Ninja Gaiden clone???

[Moniker]

Erm, art is a slippery concept at best, but I would say at minimum it should speak to the human experience in one way or another. I've never seen a shmup that does that.

Do classical symphonies "speak to the human experience?" I would argue that all three of those games pull off a similar effect quite well.

This will come off as incredibly pretentious, but whatevs..

Absolutely. The musical language is mathematical in nature, but its application is deeply personal. As Leonard Cohen put it, "the minor fall, the major lift." While it's (usually) not a representational medium, I would call it reflective of the composer and his/her environment. Listen to Bach or Beethoven and compare with Wagner or Stravinsky.

I'm curious as to how you perceive the artistic effect in Ika/RSG/BG. (Obviously it won't compare to legendary composers and so forth, but I am sincerely interested.)

[drauch]

What the heck guys? You guys are all concerned about Metal Gear's story????

IT'S AN ACTION GAME! What story???

Oh, just the 3 hours of cut scenes you have to sit through.

[Strider77]

Press the start button... it's been a big cover up. You can skip them.

[Skykid]

It's not boring... IT'S NOT BORING!!!

I am also a member of the "creepy" metal gear fanbase . That one was at least fresh and made me chuckle a bit.

Don't lie Skykid... you know you didn't find the showdown between Metal Gear Rex and Ray boring in part 4. Not as boring as Secret of Mana anyway.

It can be boring when the plot goes off the rails and you're force fed 30 minutes of nonsensical drivel that is purposely obfuscated. You wouldn't sit through badly written TV for that long.

I do not agree with the rationale of skipping cutscenes either. If cutscenes are in there, they exist as part of the game and therefore should be palatable, as part of good game design. I'm not into skipping past everything plot related and ultimately getting a lesser experience, therefore its down to the director to make his cutscenes work as well as everything else and balance his game accordingly. If Hideo feels his game needs to drag like a gorilla shot full of ketamine at regular intervals, it's his call, but I wouldn't be proud of releasing something with that kind of issue.

The Metal Gear Rex and Ray fight was the point I felt 4 was running out of steam, but I'll agree several set pieces prior to that were quite engaging (if a bit OTT and out of place for the series.)

I didn't find Mana boring for at all, it's a nicely paced JARPG with plenty of loveliness.

[Strider77]

Summoning Flammy dragons with the Karate Kid 2 drum was gay. Dumb AI characters getting stuck behind rocks was gay. Moving at a snails pace waiting for meters to charge was gay.

Boring.... BORING and dumb story. MGS series poops on such lameness. POOPs on it!!

I fart on flammy dragons and they like it.. now that's lame but maybe not boring.

MGS games don't run out of steam any worse than any of the Gears games... and being forced to walk at a snails pace while waiting for the characters to shut up isn't brilliant either but I love those games also.

@Skykid

What did u think of Uncharted 3?

[Skykid]

What did u think of Uncharted 3?

Didn't play it.

MGS games don't run out of steam any worse than any of the Gears games...

They really do (bar the original PSX one.)

and being forced to walk at a snails pace while waiting for the characters to shut up isn't brilliant either but I love those games also.

It's okay when it lasts less than thirty seconds a time, happens only rarely, and allows you to still have control over the game during the sequences.
Epic get a special sticker for intelligent game design right there.

I didn't like Secret of Mana

If you found Mana particularly taxing because of its flaws that's fair enough - it's certainly not a perfect game. Personally I didn't find any of the issues you mentioned problem enough to ruin an otherwise fun RPG.

[Zaarock]

Pretty nice 25min interview about the game and the collaboration of kojpro and platinum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... V1BMUg4NsA

Liking the new gameplay footage there and slightly altered cutscenes/promos. the VGA trailer really was bad, this almost makes up for that. Looking forward to seeing how this'll turn out for sure.

Also liking the idea of Yoji Shinkawa making character designs for a platinum games title, mainly because I love the mech design in the ZoE series

[evil_ash_xero]

That was interesting to watch.

As I mentioned before, fan reaction is odd. I'm guessing it has something to do with the "real world" style of MGS... When I see Raiden picking up a Metal Gear Ray and swinging it around, I think that looks awesome. But lots of fans are like "that's silly". Well, I guess I like silly.

Platinum have game engines down. Their games are a blast. Their weakness is either story, or design and story(not that the designs aren't original and inventive...they're just...a little out there).

Being KP's world they have to play in, the designs all look really good, and the story is written by Konami....so that'll probably be a big help. And yeah, Kojima not writing it will help it from being bogged down with too much talking heads.

Unless their secret director is the janitor or something, this should turn out pretty good. Hopefully.

[mesh control]

As long as I don't have to hear about nanomachines.....

......FUCCCCK

[Strider77]

Wow... that one little snip of the above footage has me excited alone. After watching that 24 vid I am quite excited. That video was actually really interesting and honest for a change.

[Zaarock]

http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/egm ... vengeance/

Actually, the first thing I told Inaba when we started to work together on Metal Gear Rising was that I wanted Kamiya to direct the game,” Kojima said. “But then Inaba told me, ‘If you work with Kamiya, you will be delayed. In fact, you will be very delayed!’ So, that option was out. Besides, Kamiya told me that there’s this old Konami Famicom game called The Legend of Getsu Fūma that he loves, and that’s the only Konami property he wants to work on with me. So, we’ll have to see about that.

kamiya making that Bayonetta 2 huh?

[mesh control]

Well, might as well post this here: http://games.ign.com/articles/121/1214596p1.html

[evil_ash_xero]

I usually defend IGN a bit...but that was fucking stupid, and closed-minded. It's a goddamn spin-off. It doesn't have to be like the main series. Geez...what is with people?

[Skykid]

I usually defend IGN a bit...

Jesus, what a line, I was about to berate you for that. However, I read the article and...

Yet increasingly Metal Gear Solid stands as the pinnacle of its series.

...It's not often they actually say something of any value whatsoever, but it looks like I'm unable to judge them in this instance.

Damn.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Looks like Shinobi without the dash-dash-dash-slash-dash-dash-slash thing and without the scarf. I hope the people who made Z.O.E.2 have nothing to do with it.

[Siren2011]

I hope the people who made Z.O.E.2 have nothing to do with it.

Why would that be a bad thing?

[Zaarock]

I hope the people who made Z.O.E.2 have nothing to do with it.

Platinum is handling all the gameplay stuff so I don't see your point here. Shinkawa (mech designer for ZoE) is making the character concepts for rising though, which is cool IMO.

[DragonInstall]

I love games where my hands are constantly moving. Zoe2 dashing was really fun, same goes for NG dash roll dash roll. It really makes the action sequence feel alive.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Z.O.E.2 felt so much inferior to Shinobi and Silent Bomber (also games about locking on and dashing) it wasn't even funny. Heck, it felt inferior to Omega Boost with analogue contoller. Especially the final bossfight was an unfunny excercise in skilless button mashing. It had the cutscenes, though. Left me with a far greater "style over substance" Abschmack than any Metal Gear game I played.

[Siren2011]

Z.O.E.2 felt so much inferior to Shinobi and Silent Bomber (also games about locking on and dashing) it wasn't even funny. Heck, it felt inferior to Omega Boost with analogue contoller. Especially the final bossfight was an unfunny excercise in skilless button mashing. It had the cutscenes, though. Left me with a far greater "style over substance" Abschmack than any Metal Gear game I played.

I can actually agree with your argument. Boss fights felt gimmicky (especially the one where you had to get an A.I. from an orbital frame) and simple. (Except for Zakat!! That was totally badass and required constant reflexes!) But the presentation was nothing short of incredible. Definitely a game with a lot of potential that never really reached its max. Hopefully Mr. Kojima will get his shit together for number 3.

Oh man. I just thought of something. Platinum Games designing ZOE 3 with Hideo's team taking care of the art direction and plot scenario...

MAKE IT SO!!!

[Strider77]

Skykid if you hate metal gear, bayanetta, vanquish ect. so much why do you give this thread so much attention?

I like MGS1 and it has the most coherent story but it game play is so restrictive and offers so much less than the rest. I find myself playing the least next to 2.

When I play it it is mostly due to nostalgia and story. It's just primitive and restricting in the way have to play it.

[Siren2011]

Skykid if you hate...Bayonetta

The question is why on earth would anyone hate that game, let alone Skykid who, from what I understand, loves challenging and deep games. Does not compute. Must have reason or self destruct sequence will initiate.

EDIT: Here's some mouthwatering action from Bayonetta just for the heck of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kt3xFqj ... ideo_title

[Skykid]

Skykid if you hate metal gear, bayanetta, vanquish ect. so much why do you give this thread so much attention?

For the discussion of course. It always surprises me when folks say stuff like MGS has great storytelling, the same way some people say AVP is a good movie.

However, I finally see your where all this misunderstanding is coming from (no wonder you get worked up whenever I chip in my two bits.) What makes you think I hate the games you mentioned?

I think aspects of them are flawed/unpleasant, and other aspects are good. I don't hate MGS, I just think it's a series with uncapitalised potential. If I hated it I wouldn't play it.
I hate Home Alone on the SNES and Pit Fighter, I hate just about every Sonic game since Adventure, Zool on the Amiga and Iron Man 2 on the 360. I don't hate Bayonetta, Vanquish, or MGS - I just don't like them as much as you, and don't agree with the level of praise they receive.

MGS2 has a superb boss roster and all of their fights are significant highlights. Doesn't change the fact that Raiden is a misfire and the plot is incomprehensible.
Bayonetta... well we've been through it: good, deep combat vs distastefulness, bland stage design etc.

If you only ever glean stuff I don't like from the comments, you're not reading them properly dude.

[Friendly]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... orm-is-ps3

Not that surprising, but it's good to know that unlike Bayonetta it won't be inferior on PS3.

[Strider77]

double post sorry

[Strider77]

However, I finally see your where all this misunderstanding is coming from (no wonder you get worked up whenever I chip in my two bits.) What makes you think I hate the games you mentioned?

I read your posts, it's just there are hardly any of the positives mentioned. It's a landslide to the negatives for sure. I never really recalled hearing you actually say you liked them at all (not saying you haven't). I never really waste lots of text on here with what I hate or dislike. In fact walls of texts come out of me when I defend a game more often than not. I really don't think I have defined myself on this forum by what games I hate. Some are very much defined on here by what they hate or dislike. Or pour more effort into trashing then praising. Ceph comes to mind... sometimes I wonder if you are just trashing on something b/c it gets praised by the majority. In other words if it were an underdog you'd go far easier on it. This leads to the...

Other half.... it's been really hard for me to forget the walls of text on your trashing of Inception. I read all of that totally assuming you had seen the movie and took it seriously. I had to do a double take when after about 4 pages and days into the thread I discovered that you had not even seen it. You've gotta see how that could make me sceptical. I mean you literally typed enough on why that movie sucked to make a paper/essay out of it. But it was all based on assumptions... you hated it before you saw it. That really shocked me.... I may not have always agreed with you but after that it's been hard to know if you are on a hate wagon or not at times.

I can hope you could at least see how I would be... cautious at the least; when you feel something so strongly, so negative without even experiencing it. Judging a book by it's cover, and with a shit ton of conviction while doing it. It's like there is some juicy back story as to why you have a grudge on something at times. I have friends in the real world like this, they will have a real hate towards a game or movie and it's always b/c they had some debate they refuse to let go off all these years later.

The same thing came up with Bayonetta... I was suspicious and I checked your gamertag and you have beat around 4 or so chapters. How could I not at least be sceptical of your points again.

We are going in circles though, lets just drop it. neither one is going to convince the other of anything at this point. Although if you don't hate them and actually LIKE these games. Then yes... I, well... yeah I had no clue. I like them to so all right in the world (and my PC Engine has no yellow issues with my XRGB unlike yours).

[Skykid]

However, I finally see your where all this misunderstanding is coming from (no wonder you get worked up whenever I chip in my two bits.) What makes you think I hate the games you mentioned?

I read your posts, it's just there are hardly any of the positives mentioned. It's a landslide to the negatives for sure. I never really recalled hearing you actually say you liked them at all (not saying you haven't). I never really waste lots of text on here with what I hate or dislike. In fact walls of texts come out of me when I defend a game more often than not. I really don't think I have defined myself on this forum by what games I hate. Some are very much defined on here by what they hate or dislike. Or pour more effort into trashing then praising. Ceph comes to mind... sometimes I wonder if you are just trashing on something b/c it gets praised by the majority. In other words if it were an underdog you'd go far easier on it. This leads to the...

Other half.... it's been really hard for me to forget the walls of text on your trashing of Inception. I read all of that totally assuming you had seen the movie and took it seriously. I had to do a double take when after about 4 pages and days into the thread I discovered that you had not even seen it. You've gotta see how that could make me sceptical. I mean you literally typed enough on why that movie sucked to make a paper/essay out of it. But it was all based on assumptions... you hated it before you saw it. That really shocked me.... I may not have always agreed with you but after that it's been hard to know if you are on a hate wagon or not at times.

Righty, last time. Not your fault maybe, but it is tiring to have to keep reaffirming a common misconception: I was ragging on Chris Nolan as a director. I made that clear from the start. It's not possible to spend twelve pages discussing a movie I haven't seen - that much was clear and all the folks involved in the discussion were aware of that. I mentioned Inception directly when reiterating comments made about it by other people. Because of Nolan, I admit to having a pessimistic preconception of the film, and I also admitted to being pleasantly surprised by it (as I always do - I'm honest.)

Next thing: I sneeze walls of text. It's not a side effect of passionate discord, more just a bad habit, and should not be considered an indication of eagerness to criticise.

I love games. Love 'em, and love lots of 'em. But the best debate is always had over differences of opinion: agreements are flaccid. If you want to tell me why Secret of Mana is weak, I'll take a defensive stance. If you want to tell me why MGS is a seminal masterwork, I'll challenge the notion.

There's really nothing more to it. All the synposes I made above about the parts of the games I liked were just picked out of posts I've already made, so the praise is in there. Short of writing a full blown review (as I did with LOS) it's not always easy to communicate everything through bursts of forum text.

Hope this clarifies some things for you.

[Strider77]

Like I said we are running in circles.... I don't take everything you say as the rants of a mad man for the record.