Autofire in older shmups

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:27 am

I'm not going to play shit like Gradius 3 without autofire, sorry. It just isn't happening.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:43 am

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:Take for example, Namco's System 12 powered JPN region Tenkomori Shooting or the USA region Tenkomori Variety Shooting PCB

Better example would be Numan Athletics (or, going to a completely different genre, Taito's Real Puncher games), where the whole point of certain events is the Track 'n' Field-type real button-mashing action ^_~

In a shooting game, my goodness, the focus is on the shooting, not the hand-killing.

Although I think Toaplan did it better than many (i.e. in Flying Shark which lgb mentioned), in that you were supposed to be psyched in the buildup to the ultimate stage boss, it's still a silly game mechanic.

Also, I'm still not sure what lgb is saying. I think this calls for yet another post explaining the difference between real ultimate power and scrubbery

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:14 pm

Ruldra gets it but this ought to be so obvious that it's a complete non-issue. Game designers are dumb though so here's an analogy:

save points vs quicksaves -> save points + softsaves (being able to stop at any time without nerfing difficulty)
needs mashing vs autofire 1 -> autofire 3 (not killing your wrists without nerfing difficulty)

Of course the problem (if you consider it one) is quicksaves or autofire 1 being used in a game not explicitly designed around it. I think it would be neat to have a commercial game based around quicksaves/save states, similar to Air or other rom hacks. Modern shmups already get around jacked autofire by being based on fast autofire to begin with.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:20 pm

Enhasa wrote:Ruldra gets it but this ought to be so obvious that it's a complete non-issue. Game designers are dumb though so here's an analogy:

save points vs quicksaves -> save points + softsaves (being able to stop at any time without nerfing difficulty)
needs mashing vs autofire 1 -> autofire 3 (not killing your wrists without nerfing difficulty)

Of course the problem (if you consider it one) is quicksaves or autofire 1 being used in a game not explicitly designed around it. I think it would be neat to have a commercial game based around quicksaves/save states, similar to Air or other rom hacks. Modern shmups already get around jacked autofire by being based on fast autofire to begin with.

Code: Select all

[1418.05] <lite1> probably my most favorite thing about critics is when you hear things like "game developers are stupid"
[1418.26] <bofh_> lite1: ?
[1418.31] <tiwddle> they can be
[1418.33] <lite1> most critics don't make games of their own, so this becomes a moot point
[1418.34] <tiwddle> what is the problem
[1418.42] <tiwddle> hurfffffff
[1418.50] <tiwddle> lgb's perfect logic class
[1419.14] <lite1> so even though you know jack shit about creating a game, you can say that those who do are idiots?
[1419.48] <tiwddle> most game critics that aren't on gamefaqs do
[1420.04] <tiwddle> if this is news to you i am sorry you had to live under a rock.
[1420.19] <lite1> then where are their games?
[1420.37] <tiwddle> you don't have to have developed games to see what is wrong with them.
[1420.46] <lite1> yes, you do.
[1420.53] <tiwddle> bofh
[1420.56] <lite1> well, no
[1421.20] <Udderdude> lite1: it helps immensely to understand how, why and where problems developed
[1421.22] <tiwddle> if you understand the process and man-hours it takes, you don't really need to have your hands on a developed project
[1421.32] <tiwddle> it does help, but it isn't always necessary
[1421.37] <louis-> you don't have to develop games to know how bullshit a lot of games are
[1421.58] <lite1> then why don't you make your own games, if these games are such bullshit?
[1422.03] <Udderdude> :3
[1422.03] <tiwddle> udderdude
[1422.04] <louis-> um.. I have
[1422.08] <louis-> and Udderdude has
[1422.08] <tiwddle> could you +o
[1422.17] <tiwddle> my fuse has been short lately
[1422.35] <Udderdude> hold on
[1422.39] * lite1 (~chatzilla@cpe-075-177-022-092.triad.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910])

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:52 pm

MAMEplus setting of autofire every 3 frames is like takahashi meijin champion shooter rate (assuming a game that runs somewhere around 60fps, using final star force here I guess)

I can't even approximate the rate of 6 under FSF.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:46 am

15 shots per second (autofire 3) doesn't seem overly fast to me. I mean, yeah I couldn't sustain it for any amount of time longer than 2 secs but OMG I'm cheating anyway so might as well self-regulate where I want. Maybe autofire 9 would be the most accurate but I didn't sign up to play no damn hackey sack.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:24 pm

I usually tap like a mo'fo when first trying a game in MAME, then adjust the autofire rate until it matches what I could do. For some reason, it's not the same in every game, though that could just be me not being regular. I see I have autofire set to 6 in R-Type and 8 in R-Type Leo. *shrugs*

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:33 pm

It's not just you, firing rates vary wildly across games. You'll crash into Strikers 1945 II's firing ceiling while you're barely grazing Darius Gaiden's, to name two extremes.

I definitely support the idea of autofire delay, I have to look into that. I'm fine with tapping a button, just not to the point of mechanical fatigue. Hell, I prefer it in most cases... makes it easier to hit only what I want to rather than valuable score targets / those annoying "bullet pinata" enemies, etc.

Domino · Post by **Domino** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:10 pm

I like how in Gun Frontier (arcade) the game will shit on you if it detects Auto-Fire (it'll become a lot harder than usual, another reason why I like Gun Frontier).

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:07 pm

No actually it counts the amount of shots you miss and the amount of button presses that yields no shots and increases rank accordingly. If you use burst fire and have autofire 1, you're fine. That's only one of its many problems.

Taito <3 retard rank

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:49 am

Of course in Gun Frontier more rank = moar enemies right? :S

Damn, I'm thinking of Blazing Star again.

Leandro · Post by **Leandro** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:12 am

I use autofire in Truxton, arcade version, the game gets more enjoyable to me that way. I'm afraid some people get offended by this.

Oh and in Twin Hawk I do the same and also play with both 1p and 2p overlapped. Hehe

At least later Toaplan games have built in autofire. Cheers.