Xbox 360 defects: an inside history

[Skykid]

Were you here in a past life? With 17 posts that's a bit strong. Ceph might come across as 'obnoxious' now and then, but we don't need to call for a ban everytime someone feels strongly about something.

Remember, hatred and also allegiance to consoles has raged since the beginning - this is nothing new.

Yes, I was.

I really do not feel like digging up all of the obnoxious Ceph posts that make me form my opinion of him. Needless to say this is not coming out due to "360 fanboyism", but as stated earlier, due to more typical Ceph drivel. Yes, I read the articles, having to go so far as to keep the ads from loading because the shitty site puts in code that causes memory leaks. Yet nothing "new" or "insider" was found by me, just old info.

I have had 3 rrod's and you know what? I still enjoy my gaming experience while waiting for my "Naylin Paylin" chance to come.

I had a feeling that was the case. I'll admit to not remembering you previously but welcome back!

I'll agree that Ceph's posting style did strike me as obnoxious, especially when I first got here. I think the self-promotion in his sig was particularly crass - you'll only prove yourself as smart by being so.

However, this forum is a mixed bag of personalities, many of them volatile many of them obnoxious. I've kind of learned that certain people here are a certain way and that's just the colourful nature of the shmups forums.

If we banned everyone it would be more bland, don't you think?

However, on your point regarding the 360, you happen to be 100% correct sir. How is it possible for those not owning the machine to be able to pass comment regarding the enjoyment of those that do?

In short, it's not, and therefore, they shouldn't.

[Ceph]

Heh, you mean that "listen to Ceph, he's smart and stuff"? That was a real quote by Icycalm, although I took it out of context. I put it in my sig to piss him off; it worked. After he was banned I deleted it.

[Ed Oscuro]

i get the feeling D is taking the piss out of me in a subtle way!

[Skykid]

Heh, you mean that "listen to Ceph, he's smart and stuff"? That was a real quote by Icycalm, although I took it out of context. I put it in my sig to piss him off; it worked. After he was banned I deleted it.

Ah, in that case I take it back. Anyone taking the piss out of Icycalm deserves some respect, so you have mine.

Although you took it out of context to aggravate him, without the backstory it was read out of context be me, and possibly a number of others that were new to the forum. I knew it was a quote, I just thought it was an ego thing.

Look, fuck all this malarkey anyway. Even though this place can be ridiculously high strung at the best of times, I still like it and the people who make it what it is.

Well, most of them anyway. Spazicon was a bit of a spaz.

[undamned]

Interesting interview with an insider:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digi ... 129866.asp

Late to the party, I know, but if you haven't read this and have (or are considering getting) a 360, there's some great stuff in there. Particularly refreshing after reading all the RROD folklore 'round the interwebs.
-ud

[dave4shmups]

Well the Classic Game Room forums are down, now, but there was a guy who sent me the number of the new Jasper 360's, which are supposed to be more reliable.

Still, there's no way MS is getting my money when Sony has designed a much more durable HD system, and one that has free online and built in wireless. The original XBOX had it's issues, but this is ridiculous.

[Skykid]

Still, there's no way MS is getting my money when Sony has designed a much more durable HD system, and one that has free online and built in wireless.

And on behalf of all the X360 owners I wish you and your PS3 the best of luck and hope you enjoy your time together.

[dave4shmups]

Still, there's no way MS is getting my money when Sony has designed a much more durable HD system, and one that has free online and built in wireless.

And on behalf of all the X360 owners I wish you and your PS3 the best of luck and hope you enjoy your time together.

Ahh, see but I'll end up eating my words, because the 360 has the game library that I like the most. I really don't love any of the consoles this generation, just the games that are on them. At any rate, the advice in that article about displaying your 360 vertically is nonsense. You NEVER display a disc-based console that way, or you'll end up with scratched discs, and, in the case of the 360, blocking a large vent.

[Specineff]

Used system and extended service plan, anyone?

[Skykid]

To the PS3's credit, Wipeout is still bringing me back to the machine and I always watch movies on it.

That's it though.

[dave4shmups]

Used system and extended service plan, anyone?

Oh heck no! Even when I worked at GameStop we told people not to buy our used 360's! And we never got in trouble for that, either.
I'd get an arcade model.

I have plenty of respect for the PS3, I just have no need for a Blu Ray player-even when I get an HD monitor, most of the DVD's I watch are those aviation ones-which would be up-scaled, but I don't really care. I

[Specineff]

Wow. And why is that, Dave? Is the service plan too crappy, or the systems break so often the plan is pretty much useless?

[dave4shmups]

Wow. And why is that, Dave? Is the service plan too crappy, or the systems break so often the plan is pretty much useless?

It's a combination of things-namely, that when someone trades in an XBOX 360 (or any other system for that matter) at GameStop, the employees get such crappy hours that they only have time to test one disc-because they still have to get to the mountains of games traded in and get those put away. If one game works, then the system can be taken in as used. It might break the next day, but, like I said, with the hours GS gives you, you don't have time to do more detailed testing/try out more games. Take it from me, as I used to work there.

Now, Play N Trade says that they will fix broken 360's for about $89.00-which would be worth it IF the fix can permanently prevent the heatsink from separating from the motherboard, which is what causes the RROD.

Still, $200 for a new arcade model (for someone who doesn't care about online play) is an incredibly cheap way to get into HD gaming. And the 360 has much more exclusives that I want to play. I don't care about Blu-Ray or playing "The Sims: Video Game Marketing" (err, I meant Home).

[dave4shmups]

Well on Friday, I got the August 2009 edition of Game Informer in the mail. Regarding Microsoft and the RROD problem, on page 25, they write that:

"The company went public with its woes in 2008, saying that it was setting aside $1 billion to deal with the situation. While the company's efforts are sincere, and $1 billion is a heavy hit to take, we're hearing that so far the problem has exceeded the $1 billion mark and is showing no signs of slowing."

Why can't MS just fix it once and for all? Surely that would make more since then to keep hemorrhaging money over the problem? Or would that just make way too much sense?

[Specineff]

The issue is the non-lead solder, which melts at lower temperatures, IIRC.

Which seems stupid to me, because everybody knows that my pregnant wife and unborn child can get sick from the lead inside a closed unit, which of course emits dangerous lead vapors that escape through layers of PCB, aluminum and plastic, and home their way into a pregnant woman's bloodstream.

I'm sure there must be an alternative, but that of course involves investing in R&D.

For the record, I had my PS3 get the Yellow Light of Death recently, and it's caused by exactly the same issue.

[undamned]

The issue is the non-lead solder, which melts at lower temperatures, IIRC.

Non-lead solder melts at higher temps than lead solder. In manufacturing, the board houses MS used weren't all that experienced w/ non-lead solder and as a result some chips aren't soldered down that well. Combine that w/ horrible cooling design and you are ready for failure with a quickness.

Some original units are still alive, but those are rare. The newer units are less likely to fail, but they are still not 100%. One of the improvements in the newer systems is using 65nm chips rather than 90nm (in layman's terms, the processors don't get as hot as they used to).
-ud

[Specineff]

Oh, okay. I thought it was the other way around.

[dave4shmups]

The issue is the non-lead solder, which melts at lower temperatures, IIRC.

Non-lead solder melts at higher temps than lead solder. In manufacturing, the board houses MS used weren't all that experienced w/ non-lead solder and as a result some chips aren't soldered down that well. Combine that w/ horrible cooling design and you are ready for failure with a quickness.

Some original units are still alive, but those are rare. The newer units are less likely to fail, but they are still not 100%. One of the improvements in the newer systems is using 65nm chips rather than 90nm (in layman's terms, the processors don't get as hot as they used to).
-ud

Interesting. Someone could seriously start a small cottage industry of buying broken 360's, repairing them, and then re-selling them. If the repairs being done were close to being permanent. Maybe someone already has, on Ebay?