HD Box Pro: cheap (and good) alternative to the XRGB-3

EatenByGrues · Post by **EatenByGrues** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:54 pm

Fudoh wrote:Borders with PS2 games: that's the PS2's fault, since the system underscans on most games, meaning it doesn't use the full YUV resolution but rather 600x400 insted of 480p.

Scanlines: it's in the nature of a 31khz (VGA) signal that the typical CRT scanlines of low-res games are gone

Ok so really the only issue that might be attributable to the HD Box Pro itself is the faint scrolling lines in DOJ. I noticed earlier in the thread that some people mentioned that may be due to an ungrounded power-supply?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:24 am

I didn't notice it on my past HDBox Pro, but I'll get another one soon and recheck with DDP DOJ then.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:06 pm

Guess what. I switched to a CRT, and now the scrolling phantom line of doom is gone. Maybe the AC adapter needs to be broken in? And believe me, I DID look for it long enough that my eyes started to itch from keeping them open.

EatenByGrues · Post by **EatenByGrues** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:28 am

Fudoh wrote:I didn't notice it on my past HDBox Pro, but I'll get another one soon and recheck with DDP DOJ then.

I was playing some DOJ and turns out it only does this in Tate Hosei mode not Tate. So yeah I would say that all around this is a very solid little box.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:35 pm

Mods, wouldn't it be a good idea to sticky this thread?

Endymion · Post by **Endymion** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:48 pm

skinny goon wrote:
Specineff wrote:
Fudoh wrote: could be a bad power suppy...
I have noticed this as well. (Just got one). Somehow it's more noticeable when you use a progressive source, and more noticeable on the reds (to me). However, if you are playing an action game, and not staring at a static screen you will not see it unless you actively look for it.

I will try using a grounded surge protector. I suspect it's caused by the differences between HK and US voltages. (HK uses 240 V 50 hz, right?)
Strange...I'm not having this problem at all. I was having a bit of noise that looked like some sort of shielding/interference issue, but after adjusting the "movement" and "sharpness" options, I've pretty much rectified it.

The problem as it is described here sounds 100% like a ground loop to me. This happens when there is a potential difference between the device that is sending the signal and the display that is showing the signal. Usually, using the same power mains solves this issue. If it is a ground loop, it also explains why they are seeing the problem and you aren't.

Specineff wrote:Guess what. I switched to a CRT, and now the scrolling phantom line of doom is gone. Maybe the AC adapter needs to be broken in? And believe me, I DID look for it long enough that my eyes started to itch from keeping them open.

This is DEFINITELY due to a ground loop, then. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. Ground loops can happen with any devices that are made to function together electrically. If you had a ground loop with your stereo system for instance, you would hear a buzzing noise.

Brain Slug · Post by **Brain Slug** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:44 pm

I've managed to come across a company called Cypress Technology Co who make a variety of video scalers. The CM-397 will accept a CGA 15KHz Non-Interlaced 60Hz RGB signal and outputs it as VGA, XGA or WXGA.

CM-397 on CYP UK site

CM-397 Datasheet .pdf

Available here for $92. They also provide some more info and even mention IGS and Psikyo.

Seems to be one of the few scalers that will accept a real 240p signal, instead of treating it as a 480i signal. I'm wanting to test this on my 37" LCD with a NeoGeo, but it could be a while. I'll post results, but if anyone is interested in the meantime I'd like to hear how good it is and if it's lag-free.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:17 pm

Nice find! I'll surely get one to check it out. The price is reasonable.

drewmantrivia · Post by **drewmantrivia** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:59 pm

Fudoh,
Have you taken a look or gotten your hands on this box to try out? Its called the High Box? http://cgi.ebay.com/HDTV-Component-To-V ... dZViewItem
It looks to be a clone of the HD Box Pro. The price is about the same so just wondering if any one has tried it or is going to. Thanks

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:26 am

fudah.... do you know how the XRGB2 and 2+ compare picture quality wise against each other?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:42 am

the "High Box" you linked looks the same indeed. it's probably the same tech-wise as well. The HDBox Pro has a metal casing whereas this one looks like plastic though.

@Strider 77: I had both and they are exactly the same. Both have the unstable vertical sync which makes vertical lines a bit shaky on large screens. The "+" did add component support and selectable scanline density, but dropped the RGB input termination via switchable 75ohm resistor and the "+" has a narrower frequency input, thus causing problems with some PCBs.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:34 pm

I was debating getting rid of my XRGB 2+ for the regular 2. From what you are saying the quality of picture is the same.

Hmmm, I have to decide if the hassle is worth it. I own RF 1 and 2 and they won't work with the 2+. It's fine now b/c I use a sony PVM monitor for my tate needs now.

I'n the future i had planned on upgrading my TV to a higher end sony flat panel with a swivel wall mount. Then Use that for EVERYTHING. I could still do that except for the Raiden Fighter games.

Is there no way to get something that can covert the sync on those boards?

I know, I know.... why do I need to use a XRGB, but for ME.... removing those scanlines is horrible looking. It's just they way I am for better or worse. I REALLY wish there was an option for fake scan lines in these newer boxes.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:58 pm

but dropped the RGB input termination via switchable 75ohm resistor

BTW... what does this do/referring to results wise?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:25 pm

Picture might be too dark or too bright (contrast, not brightness) depending on missing or doubled resistors.

Shakey_Jake33 · Post by **Shakey_Jake33** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:23 am

Hi guys, I'm new here. This device looks like exactly what I need, just want some things clarified before I order!

I'm about to start university (at the ripe old age of 23), armed with a 1280x1024 LCD monitor. My plan is to take my 360 (which has true VGA anyway) and Wii. I already ordered a Vdigi VD-W2 before I found out about this device, and it is on the way.

The main thing that differenciates the HD BOX PRO from the VD-W2 is the fact that it supports 480i. How well does this device support this? This would be great for GameCube games, as well as problem Wii games.

The fact that this device can upscale to 1280x1024 and maintain correct aspect ratio is another real bonus - I guess this would allow me to use (for example) a PS3 in 720p mode, without stretching. I would then consider bringing my PS3, possibly.

My plan is basically to sell my VD-W2 when it arrives and purchase this instead, but if the 480i support is crap, I won't bother. What do you think?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:37 am

Being a pure transcoder the Wii VGA cable is very likely to give you a better picture with 480p material. The 480i quality of the HDBoxPro is nice, at least the best you'll get for this price (or double the price).

Shakey_Jake33 · Post by **Shakey_Jake33** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:53 am

Surely this also acts as a pure transcoder, since it transcodes 480p/720p/1080i/p also?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:11 pm

It does, but the signal gets processed in some way.

I have compared the quality to a real "only" transcoder (Burosch Con-1) and the quality of the transcoder was better/clearer.

It probably all depends on the size of the LCD screen. If you have a 19" screen or smaller, don't think about it, just get the HDBox Pro. You can start worrying about quality when you get a larger screen, 24" PC LCD or 32"+ LCD TV.

Shakey_Jake33 · Post by **Shakey_Jake33** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:48 pm

Thanks. Since I intend to use the scaling on the device to scale to my monitor's native resolution, I guess the processing is a given. The various pictures I've seen of the device in action look excellent for the price, and posts here claim no noticable lag... so I think I'll be fine.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:09 pm

Deinterlacers for videogames - an overview:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

hans030390 · Post by **hans030390** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:51 pm

I have a high-box converter (link posted earlier) for sale, if anyone wants it. It really is the same thing as the HDBox, but I think it's a slightly earlier version (ex: it doesn't have a sharpness setting like I've heard these do).

I just got it in today for my PS3 (hoping I could get a scaled 16:9 image on my 16:10 monitor), but found that I simply prefer a non-scaled image over HDMI.

I haven't tested it with anything else, but I know it works, and it's basically brand new.

If anyone is interested, please let me know. Either send me an email (hans030390@gmail.com) or PM me. I have all positive feedback on ebay (hans030390).

I'll negotiate prices, and shipping will definitely be cheaper than from Honk Kong (and faster). I'll make sure you pay less with me than you would have otherwise.

cuegf · Post by **cuegf** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:53 pm

Hi Everyone,

My son has a PS2 that we have connected to a 19" TV. I would like to use my old 22" LCD monitor instead and it seems the HD Box Pro can help me do it. The only thing is that he uses the PS2 to watch movies as well, for those who have one, how do DVD's look in this setup? I really appreciate all the other info I've read here about it. Tks.

cl25 · Post by **cl25** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:54 pm

Based on the recommendations here (and from what I read on Fudoh’s site), I recently got the HD Box Pro and tried it out with my PS2 - and I’m actually very impressed with the image quality on my 17” analog CRT monitor. In some ways, I actually prefer the results of the HD Box Pro compared to the image I get from my XRGB-2+ (because I’m not a huge fan of emulated scanlines).

I would really like to try the HD Box Pro with my other consoles (Saturn, Dreamcast, PSX), but the problem is that none of them have component output – and the HD Box Pro only accepts a component signal.

I currently have all of these older consoles connected to my Commodore 1084 monitor via a custom-made RGB cable (which ends with a common DB9 connector that I use to swap all the consoles). I noticed that VGA to component cables can be purchased from a variety of sites. For example:

http://www.geekbro.com/index.cfm/hurl/p ... GoogleBase

So my question is this – can I just follow the pinouts and basically solder together another adapter that takes all the signals from my DB9 connector (R, G, B, sync, ground, etc.) and feed them into the VGA end of the above cable? If I do that, would that give me a “component” cable that I can then feed into the HD Box Pro?

I apologize if this sounds confusing, but I know that many people here have made their own custom RGB cables. I just want to know if this would even work.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:28 pm

No, an adapter won't work. You need a converter. They are about $50 on ebay.

cl25 · Post by **cl25** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:33 pm

Thanks, Fudoh. Would something like this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YU ... .m20.l1116

I actually have a spare DB9 to Jap 21-pin RGB connector that I use with my XRGB-2+. I imagine all I would have to do is re-wire the Jap 21-pin connector so that it's in SCART configuration to use with the above converter. Is that right?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:33 pm

yes & yes.

TS · Post by TS » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:45 pm

Hi, all. I have an HD Box Pro, and want to play some of my older consoles on it. Are there any SCART -> RGB boxes which are especially good, or which I should definitely avoid?

I've never had to use one before, and I'm trying to avoid input lag as much as possible.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:30 am

The HD box won't take RGB, only component.

CL25, for your DC, just get a VGA cord or Box, and prepare to be blown away. The DC can output true VGA for most of its games, which means no need for an upscaler like the HDBox, as good as it is. Zero Gunner 2 and Ikaruga look absolutely Pwntastic on VGA.

gundamalpha · Post by **gundamalpha** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:33 am

TS wrote:Hi, all. I have an HD Box Pro, and want to play some of my older consoles on it. Are there any SCART -> RGB boxes which are especially good, or which I should definitely avoid?

I've never had to use one before, and I'm trying to avoid input lag as much as possible.

There's an seller called specialtyav(sp?) that sells Scart > YUV converter. I have one and it's quite good for its price. Haven't tried it on the HD Box Pro yet, too lazy to set it up.

cl25 · Post by **cl25** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:50 pm

I discovered the Dreamcast VGA several years ago, and yes – it gives essentially reference quality in terms of image. I use it exclusively for the Dreamcast games which support VGA output (Ikaruga, Border Down, Trizeal, Under Defeat, etc.) and the results are always beautiful.

For the non-VGA games (e.g. SFIII games, KOF games, etc.) I use the XRGB-2+ via the RGB input. The image is excellent, but I just wanted to tinker around with hooking up my Dreamcast to a non-scanline converter like the HD Box Pro.

I now use the HD Box Pro exclusively with my PS2 via the component cables. The image quality is FAR superior with 480i & 480p games like Gradius V & God of War, respectively. XRGB-2+ does an adequate job with these games, but the HD Box Pro just seems to give a better quality image.

Speaking about tinkering around, I recently purchased the Ambery RGB to VGA converter: http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html because it accepts pure RGB input from consoles and arcade boards (I’ll try it with my supergun). Sigh. I wish I didn’t have such a tinkering bug.