Ketsui dump legality

[Strider77]

What if the implications of this thread are that a trend starts where every PCB up to date from Cave is MAME'd in the next 12 months?

then we tell cave to give us a port so we can pay for them legally.... fat chance right...

[szycag]

By a 10 year rule, we would have only been playing DoDonPachi just this year. If I wanted to play Dangun Feveron, which never got a console port, I'd have to wait another year. I think five years is agreeable. By that time, the only people making money off the boards is the resale people.

Don't let me put words in the moderators mouths, but that they split this argument from the original thread, that says to me personally "we appreciate the concern but we're quite alright with the legality issue, thanks." Any other interpretation is probably a misunderstanding of why the rom linking rule is in place. Would most of you consider that the questions brought about by this thread in it's current form, are answered? Remaining doubt would seem to be personal issues and not issues with the forum itself.

[Dave_K.]

Do you guys live in another world???
-dumping roms is illegal

And what if I already own the board (which I do), is it illegal then? Remember I'm only talking about dumping the rom, not emulating it or distributing it. I may want this for my own personal backup in case my board dies.

BTW: for those quoting the region warning screen, its a "warning" that they "may" take action, not a statement of fact that playing an import game in a different region is illegal. Its up to the company to enforce it if it impacts sales of the same game for said region (pretty unlikely for arcade PCBs now a days).

[Necronom]

"5 years or 10 years later, emulating the game without owning it will be equally illegal anyway, won't it ?"

Exactly, some people making up funny rules in order to justify what is illegal anyway.
This whole discussion about whether it's legal or not is bullshit because even considering the fact that it's illegal in most western countries to circumvent a copyprotection there are still enough good reasons for the people who wanna do it to just go ahead and do it anyway. There is no port, there will be no proper port and whether it's dumped now or later doesn't change a thing.

"You are conspiring to commit / assist in copyright infringement. This is illegal, and against forum rules. Mods ought to either lock & delete the posts in question, like they do with other posts that break the rules; or clarify the rules to only disallow linking to roms | wares & accept whatever liability comes their way, however unlikely. Really I'd be fine with either, it's the double standard that bugs me."

So, when the discussion about dumping it remains but the donation numbers disapear, you'll be happy then? I mean, freedom of speech and shit

[jpolz]

BTW: for those quoting the region warning screen, its a "warning" that they "may" take action, not a statement of fact that playing an import game in a different region is illegal. Its up to the company to enforce it if it impacts sales of the same game for said region (pretty unlikely for arcade PCBs now a days).

Their willingness to pursue prosecution doesn't make owning/operating one outside Japan any less illegal.

[Dave_K.]

BTW: for those quoting the region warning screen, its a "warning" that they "may" take action, not a statement of fact that playing an import game in a different region is illegal. Its up to the company to enforce it if it impacts sales of the same game for said region (pretty unlikely for arcade PCBs now a days).

Their willingness to pursue prosecution doesn't make owning/operating one outside Japan any less illegal.

Actually it does. International copyright laws differ per region, so they are regulated locally. Its up to the company in question to peruse prosecution based on region, case specifics, costs, and so on. Point me to a case where someone in the US was sued for operating an import PCB from Japan, and I'll conede its "illegal". Until a company prosecutes and wins a case with these specifics, its not "illegal".

[louisg]

I heard you'd be prosecutedt to the fullest extent of the jam. I don't know what that means, but it sounds extremely funky!

[neorichieb1971]

After its dumped that will become a mute point.

[Radiant]

Do you guys live in another world???
-dumping roms is illegal

And what if I already own the board (which I do), is it illegal then? Remember I'm only talking about dumping the rom, not emulating it or distributing it. I may want this for my own personal backup in case my board dies.

C'mon be serious

Hey you guys can do whatever you want, i just find it sad that some of you really think this activity is legal

[neorichieb1971]

Do my posts appear invisible ?

[Dave_K.]

Do you guys live in another world???
-dumping roms is illegal

And what if I already own the board (which I do), is it illegal then? Remember I'm only talking about dumping the rom, not emulating it or distributing it. I may want this for my own personal backup in case my board dies.

C'mon be serious

I am serious, I do own a Ketsui PCB, its the most requested game at my shmupmeets. The context of the original thread was to get it "dumped". Of course the intent is to eventually get it emulated, but thats not what that thread was asking people to donate money for!

Hey you guys can do whatever you want, i just find it sad that some of you really think this activity is morally just.

fixed.

[Dave_K.]

Do my posts appear invisible ?

I don't think you'd like an honest answer to this. BTW: its "moot" not "mute".

[neorichieb1971]

[caincan]

if this forum didn't exist or the few who liked it never talked about it, who would care of Ketsui? the name is on each tongue (as sf 3.3)

that remembers me few years ago, in european forum, someone claimed 300€ for it.. anyone said it was insane price ! ...

[Radiant]

that remembers me few years ago, in european forum, someone claimed 300€ for it.. anyone said it was insane price ! ...

Right...You guys here made the hype about this (and the price) and now you cry about it
and now you dump the roms, and in 2 years you will cry about the bootlegs

[neorichieb1971]

The bootlegs, the ROMZ, the fact that its worth $150 for a kit, the fact that Cave have gone bankrupt because breaking their protection is a 24 hour job... The list of problems is endless.

Thats an argument for another day.

[P_HAT]

Personally I would wait ten years after a game release before we start talking about ROM dumping a game.

Ketsui is 5 years old correct?

maybe after 5 year ALL Ketsui PCBs will DIE, and if we not dump rom now... there is NO MORE ketsui in this fucking world.

[GaijinPunch]

Their willingness to pursue prosecution doesn't make owning/operating one outside Japan any less illegal.

They have no legal ground to sue anyone holding one outside of Japan. There are zero laws in place that forbid you buying something and taking it out of Japan. So, the full extent of the jam, is basically nothing.

[Dave_K.]

maybe after 5 year ALL Ketsui PCBs will DIE, and if we not dump rom now... there is NO MORE ketsui in this fucking world.

Actually DDP DOJ Black Label is suffering this fate today. The few members here who have it, were surprised to see it dies if you don't turn it on for a couple months. I thought I mentioned this in the other thread, that for preservation sake, its more important to dump ddpdoj-bl than ketsui.

[roker]

Hey roker you're a doodoo head.

the gloves are off . . . Mr. Poopy Pants!

[RyanDG]

maybe after 5 year ALL Ketsui PCBs will DIE, and if we not dump rom now... there is NO MORE ketsui in this fucking world.

Actually DDP DOJ Black Label is suffering this fate today. The few members here who have it, were surprised to see it dies if you don't turn it on for a couple months. I thought I mentioned this in the other thread, that for preservation sake, its more important to dump ddpdoj-bl than ketsui.

Wow, seriously?

I haven't been following the PCB scene around DDP DOJ Black Label after I picked mine up, but I haven't played it or turned it on since the beginning of the year at least.

[zakk]

maybe after 5 year ALL Ketsui PCBs will DIE, and if we not dump rom now... there is NO MORE ketsui in this fucking world.

Actually DDP DOJ Black Label is suffering this fate today. The few members here who have it, were surprised to see it dies if you don't turn it on for a couple months. I thought I mentioned this in the other thread, that for preservation sake, its more important to dump ddpdoj-bl than ketsui.

Wow, seriously?

I haven't been following the PCB scene around DDP DOJ Black Label after I picked mine up, but I haven't played it or turned it on since the beginning of the year at least.

Might want to do that!

If the battery loses charge you will get 'rom error' on boot. The battery is rechargeable, so powering it on helps. Not entirely clear how MUCH you have to power it on.

[Specineff]

Personally I would wait ten years after a game release before we start talking about ROM dumping a game.

Ketsui is 5 years old correct?

There's no logic in having to wait until it goes extremely rare and fetches prices of 2000+ USD before archiving it for posterity. (Not saying it should be dumped as soon as it hits the market, but there's gotta be a happy middle in between those points. And five years sounds like a very happy middle to me.)

And besides, we could argue that we're all collecting to buy PixelCorps a Ketsui board for his birthday since he's such a cool guy making those shirts and because we like him. Whatever he does with the board after he gets it is his business.

[pixelcorps]

happy biirthdayyy tooo meeee!!!

seriously though, DOJ black label should be discussed as a second project if this succeeds - ketsui was named after yet another "petition" post and hastily erupted from there, just because one's dumped first doesn't give it priority - it's up to whoever steps to the fore and tries to tackle it.

still, it's started now and i'll see it through for better or worse, we can evaluate the options for DOJ : BL after that eh?

I don't think anyone would imagine trying to dump a more recent game, mainly due to the ridiculous cost, not to mention the sheer amount of shit that person would get!! - look at the amount of flack i've gotten for this one alone!! - I could see people assembling lynchmobs if someone attempted it with muchi or futari!!!!

but yeah waiting until a game is near impossible to get, fetching stupid money in auctions to obtain it is kinda stupid.

anyhoos - anyone who'll be at dave's next meet, and interested in talking to me face to face about a future project , positive or negative is more than welcome to.

[nZero]

I could see people assembling lynchmobs if someone attempted it with muchi or futari!!!!

Mushihime-Tama get!!

[sc1]

What's hilarious is that I would put a tenner that half of the drama llamas crying about it would be the first to ask for links in PM if that project ever goes thru.

[pixelcorps]

how about putting the tenner in the fund instead?

[neorichieb1971]

happy biirthdayyy tooo meeee!!!

seriously though, DOJ black label should be discussed as a second project if this succeeds - ketsui was named after yet another "petition" post and hastily erupted from there, just because one's dumped first doesn't give it priority - it's up to whoever steps to the fore and tries to tackle it.

still, it's started now and i'll see it through for better or worse, we can evaluate the options for DOJ : BL after that eh?

I don't think anyone would imagine trying to dump a more recent game, mainly due to the ridiculous cost, not to mention the sheer amount of shit that person would get!! - look at the amount of flack i've gotten for this one alone!! - I could see people assembling lynchmobs if someone attempted it with muchi or futari!!!!

but yeah waiting until a game is near impossible to get, fetching stupid money in auctions to obtain it is kinda stupid.

anyhoos - anyone who'll be at dave's next meet, and interested in talking to me face to face about a future project , positive or negative is more than welcome to.

Good luck with that mate . Contrary to what you might think I didn't start anything about the legality of anything. Just the spiralling out control part.

What's hilarious is that I would put a tenner that half of the drama llamas crying about it would be the first to ask for links in PM if that project ever goes thru.

I can't speak for others, but you won't find a single rom or emulator on my PC. I've had them and deleted them 4 years ago. If Ketsui got dumped, nothing would change. If its worth playing its worth buying imo.

The argument might carry some weight though, since if it gets dumped and the bare pcb comes down to $250 I will buy it.

[Nakano]

Actually DDP DOJ Black Label is suffering this fate today. The few members here who have it, were surprised to see it dies if you don't turn it on for a couple months. I thought I mentioned this in the other thread, that for preservation sake, its more important to dump ddpdoj-bl than ketsui.

Wow, seriously?

I haven't been following the PCB scene around DDP DOJ Black Label after I picked mine up, but I haven't played it or turned it on since the beginning of the year at least.

Might want to do that!

If the battery loses charge you will get 'rom error' on boot. The battery is rechargeable, so powering it on helps. Not entirely clear how MUCH you have to power it on.

So what thats like the cps2/3 suicide battery? Does all cave shooters have this problem?

[zak]

So what thats like the cps2/3 suicide battery? Does all cave shooters have this problem?

Worse. It's not as predictable.