I have just enough money to buy Radiant Silvergun.

[Arvandor]

I'm SOOO glad I picked up Border Down a few years ago for $45. It's too bad I missed out on when Zero Gunner 2 was going for less than $40.

Well, I think the comparisons to Ikaruga are apt enough. I really can't stand whole polarity/chaining thing and I hate when Ikaruga just gets really slow during the "puzzle" elements of the game.

I'll hold off on buying it for awhile, thanks guys.

Yeah, in RSG the chaining system is even worse than in Ikaruga if you don't like chaining. In Ikaruga, you can ignore the chaining and just blast away, and all you're missing out on is 2-3 extra lives. If you try this in RSG, you'll find yourself with uber-gimped weapons. You pretty much have to go for score and learn to chain in RSG. I personally love it, but it's much like the Battle Garegga love/hate thing, only in this case it's a love/overrated thing =P

Even before finding out you didn't care much for Ikaruga's chaining though, I was going to suggest you pick up DoDonpachi and Cotton2 for your Saturn, then Mars Matrix, Radirgy, and Under Defeat for your Dreamcast. You MIGHT be able to get all of those for under $200, but it'll take some shopping around. Or just drop one title =)

You have a pretty nicely varied collection, plus you have my favorite PS2 shooter, ESPgaluda. You should tell us which ones are your favorites so we can help you out with other titles along the same lines.

[Ceph]

I picked up Castle Shikigami 2 (1 CCed) and Gradius V (haven't even beat with three credits) and loved both. Since then I've decided, however, that besides Gradius, I pretty much hate Horizontal shooters.

After reading this I'd say you definitely should try Border Down; it's horizontal but I have a feeling you might like it. It's really damn good and very challenging.

[Arvandor]

*agrees with Ceph*

I actually am not very fond of horizontal shooters either, but I really love Gradius 5, Cotton 2, the Parodiuses, and Border Down.

Gradius 5 is really an odd one though, since one of my biggest pet peeves are games where death means you may as well start over. So Gradius5 is that, AND a hori, but I still like it? Go figure.

But yeah, Border Down rules. Too bad it's started climbing in price so much... I dunno if it's worth THAT much.

[Ceph]

I dunno if it's worth THAT much.

Of course "value" is a highly subjective matter. However, Border Down is a great game with a small print run and there won't be a reprint, which means it will become even more expensive later on.

[Arvandor]

Yeah, I didn't know there were so few copies of the game running around (11k including LE's?). It would definitely be better to bite the bullet and grab it now before it climbs higher, which is not only plausible, but probable. Radiant Silvergun will probably always run $1XX. Heck, it's been going for lower recently than I've ever seen. Bunches of bids for under $120.

I should probably try and secure a copy of Zero Gunner 2 before it starts to get up there. I can settle with my GC copy of Ikaruga, so I'm good there, and aside from that, I've got all the Dreamcast shooters I want ^_^ The most expensive shooter I want to get right now, is Twinkle Star Sprites on the Saturn.

[BulletMagnet]

Gradius 5 is really an odd one though, since one of my biggest pet peeves are games where death means you may as well start over.

I'd say G5 is a good deal more lenient in that area than most of its predecessors are, since it a) allows you to instantly respawn rather than go back to a checkpoint, b) lets you re-collect your options immediately, and c) perhaps most importantly, gives you a very small hitbox, so even if you don't have enough firepower to shoot everything down after you die, you can still dodge and at least survive long enough to power back up, in most spots.

Not perfect, granted, but one of the few steps forward in that area for the series in its entire existence, so I tend to give it at least a bit of credit in that area.

[Frederik]

ghostsniper, I guess you will have to make that decision entirely on your own, since it seems that any discussion over RSGs worth and quality is biased. Is it that good? Will it fit YOUR taste? Can a game be worth so much money? Do you buy it because many people say it´s the best shmup ever, or because you are really interesed in it?

Not even a superplay will be able to give you a proper impression of that game; the swordplay movies by Ben Shinobi look incredibly elegant, yet I found this game to be very hard and extremely slow. Basically it´s a memorizer game like R-Type, a very tactical game that you really have to put a lot of work into, and not as acessible as Cave, Psikyo or Shikigami games.

[stratos]

very hard and extremely slow. Basically it´s a memorizer game like R-Type, a very tactical game that you really have to put a lot of work into

So I have to buy RSG

[Fighter17]

Games that are over $100 bucks, try before you buy.


I used to have a Modded Saturn and one of the first games I burned was Radiant Silvergun. I really didn't like the game too much and I consider it overrated (and no having a game burned to me doesn't change the experience).

Dracula X for the PCE CD, while being over $100, it's one of the few games I'm willing to shell out the cash.

[Fighter17]

You seek a holy grail at the end of your adventures. Not the beginning.

Haha, makes sense.

I just want to clarify though, that I have a modded Saturn and a import-friendly DC, and I'm looking for a way to get my PS2 import-friendly, so I could buy quite a few other shmups--I have some options.

Here's my current shmup collection, if you guys wouldn't mind making some suggestions on some games that would better deserve my money, that'd be great:

PS2
R-Type Final
Castle Shikigami 2 (1 CC'd)
Gradius V (I can beat it with two credits, just not 1 yet)
Silpheed: The Lost Planet
Espagulda
Psyviar 2: Ultimate Final
Strikers 1945 I+II
Gunbird I+II
Homura

DC
Giga Wing

Saturn
Assault Suit Leynos 2 (if that's even considered a shooter)

GC
Chaos Field
Ikaruga

Thanks for suggestions


[/b]

You really need to invest in some PSX shmups.

Start with DonPachi first. (DonPachi can be found for cheap if looking hard enough, I just purchase a rerelease version without spine for $22 shipped from Japan. It can be founded).

Then you move on with DoDonpachi (Cost around $50-$70, playing in TATE mode only allows you to play in one ship).

But still, both of the Pachis are 10x better than their shitty Saturn counterparts (I've played both boths and the PSX ports by far were better).

You need to get some Gradius Gaiden (only on PSX, wait it has problems playing on a PS2), and most of the Konami packs (also on Saturn).

You need to get Raiden Project and maybe some Raiden DX love for the PSX.

You have a PS2 and no Einhander?

No Working Designs shmups (Raystorm, Raycrisis, Thunder Force V)?


You really need to beef up your PSX shmup lineup. If not, then beef up the DC lineup or the Saturn line up (I personally didn't like Border Down and yes I played it before).

[Arvandor]

Thinking of good deals on shmups and not wanting to waste a thread to comment on the deal I just got.

A used copy (complete with bonus DVD) of Dodonpachi: Dai Ou Jou for $45 shipped.

[J-Manic]

I'm SOOO glad I picked up Border Down a few years ago for $45.

Same here man. I think I got mine for around $35-$40 on eBay, about a week or two after it's release. It was used, but complete and in minty fresh condition. And the seller was in Arizona, IIRC. I didn't hesitate.

I don't know how many times I've had the money for a copy of Radiant Silvergun. And everytime I was able to buy it, I spent it on other shmups, or whatever else. There's just too many other great shmups out there that sell for way less. And thanks to my decisions, I now have a nice Saturn library full of fantastic games. I have no regrets. But mark my words! I WILL have me a copy of Radiant Silvergun very soon, hopefully.

[Ayanami]

I say grab it. You can always sell it if you don't like it for pretty much the same price. I think it is amazing.

[Arvandor]

There is that. Was it Bloodflowers who said that no matter how excellent a game is, someone will hate it, and no matter how awful a game is, someone will love it? Well... It's all far too true ^_^ So, with RSG, you may as well give it a try for yourself (I was lucky and had a friend I could borrow it from), and if you don't like it, you can EASILY sell it off for around what you got it for (unless you over-payed by a large chunk or something).

Edit: Oh, it's Ghegs' signature, and I didn't exactly quote it word for word -_^ "No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. Likewise, no matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it."

[shinsage]

Yeah, if I were the guy I'd just nip it in the bud and buy RSG. It's going to happen sooner or later with him, most likely later now.

[jpj]

You are right! DDP DOJ is still very affordable, though Border Down has pretty much become the Dreamcast's Radiant Silvergun at this point and even the regular edition is now going for ~$150. Chances are it will become even more expensive in the future since there are only 3,000 Limited Edition copies and 8,000 regular edition copies (5,000 first print, 3,000 second print). That means unlike Radiant Silvergun, Border Down really is somewhat rare.

it's 2,000 LE and 13,000 normal. mind you that was figures from g.rev themselves; it may not be accurate because it wasn't printed by a third party into a magazine... -_-

*******************************************************

a game is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it.

[Ceph]

it's 2,000 LE and 13,000 normal. mind you that was figures from g.rev themselves; it may not be accurate because it wasn't printed by a third party into a magazine... -_-

Interesting, and where did you get those numbers? Did G.Rev whisper them to you in a dream?

For instance Sega thinks the LE had a print run of 3000, but what do they know; they only pressed the GD-Roms...
http://sega.jp/dc/030902/

I can't find any info on the regular edition.

[jpj]

so for the regular version, you can't find info on it, yet in your previous post you were giving figures for a first and second batch.......!?

(p.s. you're easily baited )

[jp]

There is that. Was it Bloodflowers who said that no matter how excellent a game is, someone will hate it, and no matter how awful a game is, someone will love it? Well... It's all far too true ^_^

I challenge whoever feels this way to find me one person that loves Planet Joker.


Granted, I guess there are fans of E.T. on the Atari out there.

[Ceph]

so for the regular version, you can't find info on it, yet in your previous post you were giving figures for a first and second batch.......!?

(p.s. you're easily baited )

I quoted Kiken (who usually knows what he is talking about) so how about you go now and annoy him for a while?

PS. Ban plz

[jp]

it's 2,000 LE and 13,000 normal. mind you that was figures from g.rev themselves; it may not be accurate because it wasn't printed by a third party into a magazine... -_-

Interesting, and where did you get those numbers? Did G.Rev whisper them to you in a dream?

For instance Sega thinks the LE had a print run of 3000, but what do they know; they only pressed the GD-Roms...
http://sega.jp/dc/030902/

I can't find any info on the regular edition.

The way I understood it (back when the game was released and such things were discussed) was that initially BD had 3,000 LEs and 2,000 regular editions (as weird as that is, I do remember thinking it odd that the regular edition had less copies), and a few months later G.Rev was nice enough to do a second pressing of 5,000 regular editions.

Therefore making 10,000 copies of Border Down. But I could be wrong. And I very well may be remembering something incorrectly. jpj may be right and I could have gotten the intial LE and regular backwards and the repress could've been 10,000.

[PFG 9000]

I challenge whoever feels this way to find me one person that loves Planet Joker.


Granted, I guess there are fans of E.T. on the Atari out there.

Absolutely. E.T. isn't a horrible game, it's just another whipping boy title that gets criticism from many gamers who've never played it. Granted it's no Space Invaders, Pitfall, or Pacman, but it's pretty decent compared to much of the trash that was on the Atari 2600.

[Dylan1CC]

Since you have decided not to get RS, here are my top 3 alternate Saturn picks:

1.Batsugun: It's the perfect mix between old school Toaplan shooting with just the right amount of manic bullet action. Simple yet addictive scoring secrets (gotta love finding those pigs), nicely exploitable bosses (especially Jupiter), fun rock music and great Joker Jun characters. I still have fond memories of 1CC'ing this a couple years ago.

2.DoDonPachi or Donpachi: You can't go wrong with either. DDP is obviously more refined in overall design, presentation and scoring though it can be said that DP may have an appealingly simpler flavor which perhaps reflects Cave's former Toaplan roots. That said though, DDP is more epic and will give you more bang for your buck even though DP is cheaper. Or if you end up using more of your money on PS2 shmups, just opt for DOJ.

3.Layer Section/Galactic Attack: Souky is great for what it is but this is a much more enjoyable game since it perfectly balances out shooting with straightforward yet visceral lock on action.

[NTSC-J]

Actually, you can go wrong with DonPachi for Saturn. That port is an abortion, get it for Playstation instead.

Otherwise, I absolutely agree with dylan's list. Batsugun should be priority #1 and is easily the best exclusive on the system.

[Dylan1CC]

Actually, you can go wrong with DonPachi for Saturn. That port is an abortion, get it for Playstation instead.

That's right, forgot about that (which is sometimes easy since I don't own many cross system ports). My bad. And it's been years since I played the first game in any form (so maybe I should not have recommended it at all, heh)

Anyways, just get Batsugun, DDP (or DOJ) and Layer Section (4 games I play quite regularly throughout the year and heartily recommend).

[Ceph]

...And DoDonPachi is better for PS1 (though much harder to find). The Saturn port has ugly pixelated explosions. The only downside of the PS1 port is that when played with 2 players in tate mode, both players have to use the same ship (you can select which of the 3 to use in the option menu). However I don't think this matters much considering people usuallly play this game ALONE.

[BulletMagnet]

...And DoDonPachi is better for PS1 (though much harder to find). The Saturn port has ugly pixelated explosions. The only downside of the PS1 port is that when played with 2 players in tate mode, both players have to use the same ship (you can select which of the 3 to use in the option menu).

You've also got to manually set the "wait" option to "on" every time you play the PS1 version or else the game runs too fast.

The Saturn version has a few minor graphic and sound issues, but is otherwise good, and also a ways cheaper than the PS1 version. It also has a "Saturn Mode" with an extra stage and the ability to fight Hibachi at the end of the first loop, though it's not quite as cool as it sounds.

[Ceph]

You've also got to manually set the "wait" option to "on" every time you play the PS1 version or else the game runs too fast.

After turning on "wait" it will stay on until you reboot, so that's not a problem.

[Ceph]

3,000 Limited Edition copies and 8,000 regular edition copies (5,000 first print, 3,000 second print).

it's 2,000 LE and 13,000 normal.

And suddenly I understand why you think that there are additional copies of Border Down (although I have a strong feeling that there are way more than 5,000 of those "special" copies.) :

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=12508

[Danny]

If you own a PS2 that can play imports or a PSX that can play imports and you want decent hori shumps then I would strongly suggest the main three hori's on the PSX...

R Type Delta
Einhander
G Darius

All three fantastic game and you can get them for £10 to £15 with P&P!