XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

I can't seem to avoid vertical bars/areas that are a bit more blurry than the rest.

try the SKEW setting. The MD/GEN is about the only system which benefits from fine-tuning this one.

[CkRtech]

Seeing blizzz's pictures of the SNES makes me think more about what an "ultimate SNES" would be in regard to video output. I have a 1CHIP-02 that I have brought back to life, and I've considered doing extra mods to try to make video output better - if it can be done. This idea of using a separate amp for the RGB signal seems like a possibility, although I have yet to output from the SNES that doesn't look to be a tad bit blurry. It is as if the RGB signals are always a tad bit too strong no matter what SNES unit is used.

I believe it has been mentioned before, but hooking up a SNES via RGB and comparing it to say a Genesis/Megadrive hooked up via RGB is quite an eye-opener for sharpness. The Genesis RGB output is sharp enough to slice bread - at least from what I have seen via the xrgb.

[lettuce]

Seeing blizzz's pictures of the SNES makes me think more about what an "ultimate SNES" would be in regard to video output. I have a 1CHIP-02 that I have brought back to life, and I've considered doing extra mods to try to make video output better - if it can be done. This idea of using a separate amp for the RGB signal seems like a possibility, although I have yet to output from the SNES that doesn't look to be a tad bit blurry. It is as if the RGB signals are always a tad bit too strong no matter what SNES unit is used.

I believe it has been mentioned before, but hooking up a SNES via RGB and comparing it to say a Genesis/Megadrive hooked up via RGB is quite an eye-opener for sharpness. The Genesis RGB output is sharp enough to slice bread - at least from what I have seen via the xrgb.

The SNES Mini has probably the best picture quality of all the SNES revisions. If i get time to tomorrow ill try and post some pics through the XRGB-mini

EDIT: does the XRGB-mini have a screen grab function?

[CkRtech]

The SNES Mini has probably the best picture quality of all the SNES revisions. If i get time to tomorrow ill try and post some pics through the XRGB-mini

But don't you have to mod the SNES Mini for RGB by using an amp? Wouldn't you therefore need to modify all of the different revisions of the SNES so that they all use the same amp you use in a mini in order to truly compare output?

[lettuce]

The SNES Mini has probably the best picture quality of all the SNES revisions. If i get time to tomorrow ill try and post some pics through the XRGB-mini

But don't you have to mod the SNES Mini for RGB by using an amp? Wouldn't you therefore need to modify all of the different revisions of the SNES so that they all use the same amp you use in a mini in order to truly compare output?

Theres 2 ways to mod the mini for RGB, by just getting the R,G,B lines for the Encoder chip and run them to the multiout pins, or bypassing the internal amp of the snes and add in a THS7314DR amp.

So if using the first method then no you wouldnt have to mod all revisions of the snes to get a fair comparison as you just re-enabling RGB, your not adding any other hardware

[pyrotek85]

Yeah I don't use an amp on my snes mini, and output looks pretty good I think. I might try an rgb amp if I feel like tinkering, or maybe adding capacitors (I think?) to alleviate the slight vertical bar.

[lettuce]

Yeah I don't use an amp on my snes mini, and output looks pretty good I think. I might try an rgb amp if I feel like tinkering, or maybe adding capacitors (I think?) to alleviate the slight vertical bar.

Apparently the amp mod removes the vertical bar if your system suffers from it. Regarding the caps, doesnt your scart lead have caps on the r,g,b wires?

[pyrotek85]

Yeah I don't use an amp on my snes mini, and output looks pretty good I think. I might try an rgb amp if I feel like tinkering, or maybe adding capacitors (I think?) to alleviate the slight vertical bar.

Apparently the amp mod removes the vertical bar if your system suffers from it. Regarding the caps, doesnt your scart lead have caps on the r,g,b wires?

No idea, I didn't make it or open it up, I just recall reading that you add one somewhere near the output I think. But I might give that amp a try, is that the same one that's used in the N64 rgb mod? If so I should have spares kicking around.

[CkRtech]

I am currently thinking separate rgb amp, digital out for audio, maybe separate stereo analog outputs as well.

I run two different paths for audio and video whenever I can. All video goes to the xrgb, all audio goes to a receiver, and ideally neither signal is passed via the same cable. I am looking to make audio changes to the SNES since I have the usual buzzing, but I'll stick to video in this thread.

I am also thinking about making my own video output cable for the SNES, and I'm considering either moving the necessary components for the RGB to the inside of the console (rather than putting them at the end of the cable) or using a separate RGB amp (as mentioned) and letting that alone take care of the output signal. I guess I would then just splice that into the multiout before having a wires-only cable.

[lettuce]

Yeah I don't use an amp on my snes mini, and output looks pretty good I think. I might try an rgb amp if I feel like tinkering, or maybe adding capacitors (I think?) to alleviate the slight vertical bar.

Apparently the amp mod removes the vertical bar if your system suffers from it. Regarding the caps, doesnt your scart lead have caps on the r,g,b wires?

No idea, I didn't make it or open it up, I just recall reading that you add one somewhere near the output I think. But I might give that amp a try, is that the same one that's used in the N64 rgb mod? If so I should have spares kicking around.

Yeah uses the same amp chip, people say to use 75 ohm resistors but for the non amp mod I did I used 68 ohm resistors and the picture was nice and bright. I have ordered some amp chips and solder boards from china the other week as I have 2 more snes mini's turning up and wanted to do the amp mod on these ones to compare. Shame that it seem hard to source these part in the UK for small quantities

[nintenthe3rd]

Any good scart switchers that will work well with the XRGB-Mini with zero interference and signal degradation?

[arovane]

I like the Premium performance 5-way automatic by Bandridge. Not too expansive, switches automatically, and no loss as far as I can see.
But be sure to have good Scart cables, like the Profigold ones. It's very easy to lose quality with crappy cables.

[airs]

I was using the Bandridge, but it doesn't have many ports. Now using one that's made by a community member on AssemblerGames with a built in externally powered LM1881 (switchable on/off):

[SGGG2]

Here's the thread, superg's gscartsw RGB-SCART project http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... RT-project

[pyrotek85]

Oh that's a slick looking scart switch. I wish I had room to hookup all my consoles at once though lol. I might need to squeeze one of those A/V carts in somewhere.

[Strider77]

So from what I understand the mini does not output at 480p with good results. Can I get a little feedback and elaborate on that?

[eightbitminiboss]

Here's the thread, superg's gscartsw RGB-SCART project http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... RT-project

I was using the Bandridge, but it doesn't have many ports. Now using one that's made by a community member on AssemblerGames with a built in externally powered LM1881 (switchable on/off):

Thanks for the heads up. Made an account on Assembler to hopefully pick one of these up.

[Fudoh]

So from what I understand the mini does not output at 480p with good results. Can I get a little feedback and elaborate on that?

The results are softer than what you'd get from a XRGB-3 in 480p. Not bad though. 480i to 480p doesn't work with scanlines, only 240p to 480p does.

[airs]

So from what I understand the mini does not output at 480p with good results. Can I get a little feedback and elaborate on that?

The results are softer than what you'd get from a XRGB-3 in 480p. Not bad though. 480i to 480p doesn't work with scanlines, only 240p to 480p does.

Just found a X2VGA box at Goodwill for $3.99 - anyone used one of these with the Mini?

http://www.neoya.com/content/download/x ... ng_120.pdf

[arovane]

I just run some tests on different games, and I noticed that I sucked big time at Border Down while I was pretty good at it not so long ago.
I felt the ship was unresponsive. Indeed when I checked the status on the mini the lag was 1.36ms. I don't know what this number imply but it was enough to ruin the gameplay.

Is there a way to lower the lag, or do we have to live with it?
I was using DC with Hanzo and UMSA. Didn't notice that much lag on MD or Pce shooters.

[airs]

I just run some tests on different games, and I noticed that I sucked big time at Border Down while I was pretty good at it not so long ago.
I felt the ship was unresponsive. Indeed when I checked the status on the mini the lag was 1.36ms. I don't know what this number imply but it was enough to ruin the gameplay.

Is there a way to lower the lag, or do we have to live with it?
I was using DC with Hanzo and UMSA. Didn't notice that much lag on MD or Pce shooters.

What display do you have?

[arovane]

I just run some tests on different games, and I noticed that I sucked big time at Border Down while I was pretty good at it not so long ago.
I felt the ship was unresponsive. Indeed when I checked the status on the mini the lag was 1.36ms. I don't know what this number imply but it was enough to ruin the gameplay.

Is there a way to lower the lag, or do we have to live with it?
I was using DC with Hanzo and UMSA. Didn't notice that much lag on MD or Pce shooters.

What display do you have?

I have a Panasonic Plasma TXP55 inches from 2012. Why?

[lettuce]

Notice im getting uneven scanlines with my snes mini, i can really notice it on white backgrounds like the Konami logo screen. What setting am i wanting to alter on the xrgb-mini, is it the 'scan_a' option in 'visual_set' sub menu??, its currently set to 80. Does anyone have a good base set of options from default settings for ntsc snes systems to make the can lines look correct at 720p.

On a another note, my 2nd SNES Mini turned up today so i did the RGB AMP mod on this one.....



So once i get this scanline issue sorted ill take screen grabs of both the SNES Mini 3 wire mod and this SNES Mini RGB amp mod to compare

EDIT: Blizzz, what method did you use to grab the screen grabs from you snes back on the other page?

[airs]

I have a Panasonic Plasma TXP55 inches from 2012. Why?

Your display is probably adding more lag than the mini is. The mini adds about 20ms lag and some measurements show 47ms for 2012 Panasonic Plasmas. Although it doesn't make sense that the other systems you have feel less laggy. Does it have a VGA input? Have you tried using that with the DC? Any differences?

Another thing you could try is comparing results from different versions of the 240p test suite, which has an input lag tester of sorts: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite

[blizzz]

EDIT: Blizzz, what method did you use to grab the screen grabs from you snes back on the other page?

I've recorded lossless videos with my SC-500N1 and then copied some screens in VDub.

[arovane]

I have a Panasonic Plasma TXP55 inches from 2012. Why?

Your display is probably adding more lag than the mini is. The mini adds about 20ms lag and some measurements show 47ms for 2012 Panasonic Plasmas. Although it doesn't make sense that the other systems you have feel less laggy. Does it have a VGA input? Have you tried using that with the DC? Any differences?

Another thing you could try is comparing results from different versions of the 240p test suite, which has an input lag tester of sorts: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite

Thanks, I'll try that.
No my display doesn't have VGA input, that's part of the reason why I'm using the DC with UMSA plugged on the mini.
That and the Scanlines for some games.

By the way, great scart switcher. Are you happy with it? Any downsides? Thinking about buying one too.

Stupid question: I will soon install a rotating device that allows to turn the display in 360, and therefore to play in Tate mode.
Is there a way to rotate the scanlines with the mini? That would be neat.

[Fudoh]

Stupid question: I will soon install a rotating device that allows to turn the display in 360, and therefore to play in Tate mode. Is there a way to rotate the scanlines with the mini? That would be neat.

there is not. But if you rotate your display anyway, you don't need it on the mini. Vertical games are supposed to have vertical scanlines, so it's ok to have the Mini just add it's horizontal ones.

[Fudoh]

Notice im getting uneven scanlines with my snes mini

in general or compared to other systems you have ? With 240p sources you can't change anything about the scanlines expect their density (that's the 80 setting you see). If you get uneven scanlines, it should be your display's fault.

[arovane]

Stupid question: I will soon install a rotating device that allows to turn the display in 360, and therefore to play in Tate mode. Is there a way to rotate the scanlines with the mini? That would be neat.

there is not. But if you rotate your display anyway, you don't need it on the mini. Vertical games are supposed to have vertical scanlines, so it's ok to have the Mini just add it's horizontal ones.

Ok thanks. I had the strange memory that arcade cabinet were displaying vertical shooters with horizontal scanlines.
But thinking about it, this can't be

[lettuce]

Notice im getting uneven scanlines with my snes mini

in general or compared to other systems you have ? With 240p sources you can't change anything about the scanlines expect their density (that's the 80 setting you see). If you get uneven scanlines, it should be your display's fault.

Not sure, ill have to test my other systems. I have a Sony KDL42W655 i would have thought that would of handled the scaling correctly?

Did i dream this or did i read that the xrgb-mini can take screen grabs and save them to the micro sd card if one is inserted?