XRGB-mini Framemeister

[arovane]

Scanline overlay for games likes Deathsmiles.

However, you would have to downscale your 360 to 480p... a bit overkill I think.
Even though I love Scanlines, I must say Deathsmiles (and most other shooters on the platform) looks better in 720p or 1080p.
Shame scanlines aren't appliable on a 720p input.

[BuckoA51]

Deathsmiles looks better in 480p if you play the original version.

Plugging the Dreamcast to the mini using a EuroSCART to XRGB Mini with built in Sync Stripper (LM1881N) will alter the VGA signal greatly. At least that's what happened with my setup - DC + HANZO + UMSA.

Absolutely should not affect it at all and don't see why it would, anyone else confirm this?

[arovane]

Deathsmiles looks better in 480p if you play the original version.

Yes, you're right. Then again most 360 games will look worse so you'll have to constantly change the 360 settings which can become tedious.

[arovane]

Deathsmiles looks better in 480p if you play the original version.

Plugging the Dreamcast to the mini using a EuroSCART to XRGB Mini with built in Sync Stripper (LM1881N) will alter the VGA signal greatly. At least that's what happened with my setup - DC + HANZO + UMSA.

Absolutely should not affect it at all and don't see why it would, anyone else confirm this?

I can confirm it does alter the signal
With sync stripper the image gets all scrambled. But I can't explain why. Without sync stripper it works perfectly though.

Now I'm trying to plug a Megadrive/Mega CD on the mini- but I'm outputting sound separately via RCA, from the back of the Mega CD, not via scart.
Is it possible to output the picture through the mini and the sound separately?

[arovane]

Another thing I can confirm is that it is pure hell to make the 32X work with the mini
That's sooo bad cause games like Kolibri or After Burner would be neat on meister mode.
Any help would be very much appreciated!

[Pasky]

If you're using a LM1881 or it's variants, it'll amplify the sync signal, probably beyond what the meister would like to have. If it's too low without one, wire up the LM1881 and use a voltage divider on the Lm1881's output. Easiest method is to use a 10K potentiometer have the input coming from the LM1881, one output to ground, the other output going to the meister. Then just turn the pot until you get a signal without the problems you have without the stripper.

[arovane]

If you're using a LM1881 or it's variants, it'll amplify the sync signal, probably beyond what the meister would like to have. If it's too low without one, wire up the LM1881 and use a voltage divider on the Lm1881's output. Easiest method is to use a 10K potentiometer have the input coming from the LM1881, one output to ground, the other output going to the meister. Then just turn the pot until you get a signal without the problems you have without the stripper.

So that would mean that you can potentially adapt the sync manually from whichever system you're using, without cable swapping? If I understand correctly, sounds like a great idea, especially since I have a very high amount of consoles plugged into the mini although I don't know if I'm capable enough to make this, I will try when I have the time. Thanks

[Pasky]

Yes you can, assuming you install the LM1881 and potentiometer inside the cable (and it's accessible to adjust).

[austin532]

How does mini upscaling stack up against a PS3 for PS1 games? Are there any comparisons?

I did not like the ps2 upscaling ps1 directly to tv. It looks much better through the mini. I would guess it's similar with the ps3 but I don't have one to compare.

It's not an entirely valid comparison anyway because the emulator the PS3 uses seems off in terms of output, but every time I see PS1 footage from that I think it looks horribly jagged and pixelated compared to running on a CRT.

I'm sure a mini using scanlines is better, but it's hard for me to assess whether I would like it enough to warrant a buy. Footage like this somehow doesn't come off as nice as a 14" BVM to me...

It looks much better in person plus maybe it's just me but it looks like those scanlines in the video aren't even. I would stick to the BVM if you are happy with it. The Mini is great for large HDTV's.

[Konsolkongen]

Another thing I can confirm is that it is pure hell to make the 32X work with the mini
That's sooo bad cause games like Kolibri or After Burner would be neat on meister mode.
Any help would be very much appreciated!

Never had any problems with my 32X on the mini. I'm just using composite sync from the 32X (as I do for every system I own), no need for sync strippers and such.

To be honest though, I haven't played the 32X much, so if you can describe a scenario where it causes problems for you I can try it on my own

[Xan]

It looks much better in person plus maybe it's just me but it looks like those scanlines in the video aren't even. I would stick to the BVM if you are happy with it. The Mini is great for large HDTV's.

I'm interested in a scaler not only because of consoles, but also old PC games. I do have a VGA CRT for that but it would be nice to have an alternative. Hopefully the successor will have a VGA input again.

[Ed Oscuro]

The XRGB 3 is the only one to have a straight VGA input, right? (The XRGB-2, at least, has that 15-pin connector which might be adaptable for VGA input, though unsure about timings and stuff.) Personally, there were recently (though they're starting to fade from sight) some decent PC monitors with low lag that have VGA connectors (though I don't know how lag suffers when upscaling - not that anything before the XRGB 3 helped).

[Xan]

If I'm correct the mini has the exact same amount of lag when processing interlaced and progressive inputs right now, so there is room for improvement here.

[marqs]

Deathsmiles looks better in 480p if you play the original version.

Plugging the Dreamcast to the mini using a EuroSCART to XRGB Mini with built in Sync Stripper (LM1881N) will alter the VGA signal greatly. At least that's what happened with my setup - DC + HANZO + UMSA.

Absolutely should not affect it at all and don't see why it would, anyone else confirm this?

Yeah, LM1881N shouldn't degrade the signal/sync anyhow other than by adding a tiny delay (picture shift). Is LM1881N powered from DC's +12V or +5V line? The only issue I could see is that it'd be powered from 12V output, resulting to ~12V logic levels which could cause excessive current through protection diodes in XRGB's sync input.

[arovane]

Deathsmiles looks better in 480p if you play the original version.

Plugging the Dreamcast to the mini using a EuroSCART to XRGB Mini with built in Sync Stripper (LM1881N) will alter the VGA signal greatly. At least that's what happened with my setup - DC + HANZO + UMSA.

Absolutely should not affect it at all and don't see why it would, anyone else confirm this?

Yeah, LM1881N shouldn't degrade the signal/sync anyhow other than by adding a tiny delay (picture shift). Is LM1881N powered from DC's +12V or +5V line? The only issue I could see is that it'd be powered from 12V output, resulting to ~12V logic levels which could cause excessive current through protection diodes in XRGB's sync input.

Yes it must be powered from DC +12v output.. It looks exactly as if there was excessive current going into XRGB's sync input.
How can I be sure?
It's just out of curiosity though cause it's working perfectly without LM1881N.

[Fudoh]

I'm interested in a scaler not only because of consoles, but also old PC games. I do have a VGA CRT for that but it would be nice to have an alternative. Hopefully the successor will have a VGA input again.

getting VGA into the Mini is just a matter of using the right cable. Nothing fancy, nothing complex, nothing expensive. Your problem is the 70Hz refresh of DOS games though and the missing of a 70Hz timing from any HD timings. In other words: 400p70 to 1080p60 is never perfect.

[Xan]

I thought a sync combiner would be needed to get VGA into the mini? An active solution like that could be already classed as fancy IMO.

70 Hz is a big issue indeed, I was more talking about 480p60 games. Not exactly content with how my Eizo FS2333 handles those, I find that even old 15" LCDs look better here.

[BuckoA51]

You can try letting the graphics card do the scaling instead (or at least you can on Nvidia cards).

[blizzz]

Some screenshots I took with the Framemeister. (1CHIP-02, not modded, cable with composite video as sync, passive adapter with no sync stripping/cleaning/boosting)
I'm really fascinated by the quality, so why not share them here. I know that lurkers always like pictures









I know that there is a slight vertical band in the FF VI screenshot that could probably be removed with a mod. If you can criticize anything please do so.

Here's also a full picture version of the cable comparison I posted a few days ago: screenshotcomparison.com

[lettuce]

Some screenshots I took with the Framemeister. (1CHIP-02, not modded, cable with composite video as sync, passive adapter with no sync stripping/cleaning/boosting)

You though of trying the rgb amp mod on the 1 chip, probably improve the picture even more!?

[blizzz]

I've thought about it, but what's there to improve? The only problem I can see is the vertical bar, and that has never bothered me while playing. I don't think anyone would even notice it unless someone points it out.

[lettuce]

I've thought about it, but what's there to improve? The only problem I can see is the vertical bar, and that has never bothered me while playing. I don't think anyone would even notice it unless someone points it out.

Well yeah thats the main thing is fixes, and boosts the signal.

Ive just RGB modded my SNES mini and the picture quality is rather breath taking

[arovane]

Another thing I can confirm is that it is pure hell to make the 32X work with the mini
That's sooo bad cause games like Kolibri or After Burner would be neat on meister mode.
Any help would be very much appreciated!

Never had any problems with my 32X on the mini. I'm just using composite sync from the 32X (as I do for every system I own), no need for sync strippers and such.

To be honest though, I haven't played the 32X much, so if you can describe a scenario where it causes problems for you I can try it on my own

That's the thing, I'm using it in RGB not composite, plugged onto a Jap Megadrive/Mega cd combo. (the 32X is also jap)
No problems with the Megadrive or the Mega CD games, but when I try a 32X cartridge I get no picture and no sound, or sometimes just the SEGA logo and that's it.

What's even weirder is that I just tried some 32X roms with an Everdrive, and the games played perfectly! But all the original cartridges I have, all in good condition and all working perfectly on a CRT, won't work! When a copy of a game works and the original won't, it's a sign that something's wrong

[BuckoA51]

That's the thing, I'm using it in RGB not composite

Konsolkongen is using RGB with composite video for sync, not composite video.

[Fudoh]

no, he's using RGB with composite sync (INSTEAD of composite video)

[Konsolkongen]

That's right. And the cable I made, connecting the MD1 to the 32X uses composite sync as well.

Composite sync taken from the CXA1145 OUTput, inside the MD1.

Composite sync is also sometimes being referred to as "c.sync" or "raw sync". I can see how it can be confusing

I only have 3 games for my 32X. Knuckles Chaotix, Virtua Racing Deluxe and Tempo. All work great. I have tried a few others using the Everdrive and never had any problems there as well.

[arovane]

Composite sync is also sometimes being referred to as "c.sync" or "raw sync". I can see how it can be confusing

I only have 3 games for my 32X. Knuckles Chaotix, Virtua Racing Deluxe and Tempo. All work great. I have tried a few others using the Everdrive and never had any problems there as well.

Oh ok, sorry I misunderstood. Of course, who would plug a Megadrive/32X in video composite in the mini!
All my original 32X cartridges don't work (After Burner, Space Harrier, Kolibri etc...), but all the 32X games are working when I use the Everdrive.

Very weird.

I'll dig into that problem later today.
Funny how every system has its particularities when it comes to technical specifications. Kind of exciting too.

[marqs]

If I'm correct the mini has the exact same amount of lag when processing interlaced and progressive inputs right now, so there is room for improvement here.

As far as I know, Mini's latency is one full frame (both fields with interlaced content) plus a couple milliseconds. That makes ~20ms with 240p, and ~35ms with 480i.

[Fudoh]

It's the same (~ 24ms total) with both progressive and interlaced content. Basically one frame/field gets buffered, so it can be used with the next one for line-based motion adaptive deinterlacing.

[ultrageranium]

Hello,

I have a Japanese Model I MD plugged into the XRGB-mini with an RGB SCART and while the image is really amazing with basic settings, I could really improve it even more with the 240p test suite ROM. The grid especially was very useful to make sure everything was displayed nice and tightly.

However, I was never able to get a perfect matching for the pixel upscaling, I can't seem to avoid vertical bars/areas that are a bit more blurry than the rest. Playing with the horizontal width allowed to reduce the effect but I cannot get rid of it entirely.

While playing a shmup I don't see it at all, it's really with unforgiving black and white patterns like the ones in the 240p test suite that this is more visible. I was wondering if anyone managed to get perfect crisp grids over the whole image using the XRGB-mini or if some imperfections are unavoidable.

Once again, the image is really amazing, so this is more to feed my curiosity than anything else, in case I am overlooking other parameters (in my setup and/or the mini itself).

Thanks!