Toaplan games coming to PC (Steam, GOG)

[Some-Mist]

just grabbed the latest batch and gave grind stormer a go for the first time ever. back in college-era early 2010s I bought a sega genesis cart using an action replay and it didn't work, so I sent it back and never gave the game a chance.

it's pretty dang sick??

[Steven]

Edit: Do Truxton II, Batsugun, Twin Hawk, Grind Stormer, Fixeight and Dogyuun use the same arcade board? All of those games got the exact same update to their audio.

They do not, but they share some major components. As far as I know, the only ones that share the same board are Tiger-Heli, Slap Fight, and possibly Get Star, and even then there is the rare JAMMA version of Slap Fight that has its own weirdness with the button mappings, which is, according to Slap Fight programmer/composer Yuge-san, a direct result of the hardware on the JAMMA version being weird. You can't miss the JAMMA version of Slap Fight if you see it because it's the only Toaplan PCB that is blue.

Almost all Toaplan games use a unique, custom PCB just for that one specific game, although the post-Mahjong Sisters games mostly share the same main CPU (68000) and sub-CPU (Z80) with some exceptions. Wardner, I believe, runs on two Z80s, much like Tiger-Heli/Slap Fight/probably Get Star. I think most of the post-Mahjong Sisters games also share the same sound chip, the YM3812, but I'm not as familiar with the audio.

Daisenpuu is unique in that it was commissioned by Taito and uses a Taito PCB, not a Toaplan PCB. I don't know much about it, but I do know it has a somewhat unusual resolution that is probably not shared by any other Toaplan game. The only other notable thing is that Kyuukyoku Tiger and Twin Cobra ROMs don't work on the opposite game's PCB for some reason, so you can't just do a simple ROM swap to play the other game.

just grabbed the latest batch and gave grind stormer a go for the first time ever. back in college-era early 2010s I bought a sega genesis cart using an action replay and it didn't work, so I sent it back and never gave the game a chance.

it's pretty dang sick??

Wait until you play V-V. It's even better. There is also V-V Bomber Version, which is (probably) the same as Grind Stormer, but it's also available... and now that I think about it, they might not have separated the leaderboards for it from regular V-V.

[BrianC]

I read somewhere V-V Bomber is similar to Grind Stormer, but has the difficulty more in line with the JP version of V-V.

[scrilla4rella]

Just got a cheeky round in of Grind Stormer for the first time. The control is super responsive. I'm very happy these ports exist. Yeah the UI is fugly but it doesn't really bother me.

[Jbrodack]

Just got a cheeky round in of Grind Stormer for the first time. The control is super responsive. I'm very happy these ports exist. Yeah the UI is fugly but it doesn't really bother me.

I kinda like how lightweight the UI is for these games. You boot right into the arcade game and the menu looks like part of the original game. I just wish the borders were nicer and higher resolution and their poor man's gadgets looked better.

[DestroyTheCore]

Most games in the collection are currently 35% off. The biggest sale yet!

https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/4 ... ollection/

[dethcow]

Just got a cheeky round in of Grind Stormer for the first time. The control is super responsive. I'm very happy these ports exist. Yeah the UI is fugly but it doesn't really bother me.

Two things the Bitwave ports got very right: input lag is minimal, and there's just mame-style save states with no dumb limitations like some other ports of shmups.

Haven't checked back on whether some of the other oddities in the first batch still exist or have since been fixed, but I remember Kyukyoku Tiger playing exactly like I was used to, and I'm not familiar enough with the other Toaplan games to say one way or another. Haven't bought the last two batches yet, so I'd be interested to hear whether most of the "major issues" with them have been fixed or not.

[Arino]

Just in case this has not been posted yet

https://www.youtube.com/live/HdE4Ce1WYm ... A8y-32Yyt9

Toaplan x Bitwave talk with brief English translation

[DestroyTheCore]

I have been casually playing Batsugun since last week and gave it another try with my newly updated arcade stick yesterday. I managed to reach the stage 1-5 boss of the Special version which is hell of an accomplishment for me and made me enjoy this game even more. Something finally clicked!

I was wondering what other Toaplan games would you suggest? I'm more of a CAVE guy and I really enjoy flashy/dynamic/active gameplay and visuals with a huge dose of satisfaction. I admit earlier Toaplan games are less my jam although I acknowledge their innovation when they came out.

Cheers.

[beer gas canister]

I have been casually playing Batsugun since last week and gave it another try with my newly updated arcade stick yesterday. I managed to reach the stage 1-5 boss of the Special version which is hell of an accomplishment for me and made me enjoy this game even more. Something finally clicked!

I was wondering what other Toaplan games would you suggest? I'm more of a CAVE guy and I really enjoy flashy/dynamic/active gameplay and visuals with a huge dose of satisfaction. I admit earlier Toaplan games are less my jam although I acknowledge their innovation when they came out.

Cheers.

Out Zone, FixEight, Twin Cobra/K Tiger (not bullet hell but it plays like a dream)

[Steven]

The best ones are Out Zone, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger (skip Twin Cobra, it kind of sucks in comparison), Same! Same! Same! 1P, and Slap Fight. Or just play Tatsujin Ou if you hate yourself.

[MJR]

I would recommend Truxton, Hellfire, Outzone and KK Tiger in a heartbeat.

KK Tiger is bit of an interesting case though, because when I first tried it out, there was literally nothing that would have piqued my interest. Only subsequent plays quickly revealed to me that 1) the gameplay and music is out of this world 2) many of the popular shmups, especially on amiga, ripped off err were inspired by KK Tiger.

The music in KK Tiger is so catchy that it's insane.

Tatsujin Ou makes me feel like I am being put through a cheese grinder, slowly. Yet I sometimes fire it up.

Tiger Heli and Slap Fight have amazing gameplay. It's super rare to see something balanced so perfectly. But they are also very tough. Especially Tiger Heli, it will utterly destroy any illusions of skill you think you may had as a gamer. But when you get good at it.. just bliss.

[spmbx]

Just in case this has not been posted yet

https://www.youtube.com/live/HdE4Ce1WYm ... A8y-32Yyt9

Toaplan x Bitwave talk with brief English translation

Thanks for posting the link. Skimmed through all the parts, and slightly offtopic and probably stupid question but who are the two gaijin at about 1:23:22 in that video? I'm guessing the right one is @mikejmoffitt , and who's the guy with the glasses on the left?

[Arino]

Just in case this has not been posted yet

https://www.youtube.com/live/HdE4Ce1WYm ... A8y-32Yyt9

Toaplan x Bitwave talk with brief English translation

Thanks for posting the link. Skimmed through all the parts, and slightly offtopic and probably stupid question but who are the two gaijin at about 1:23:22 in that video? I'm guessing the right one is @mikejmoffitt , and who's the guy with the glasses on the left?

Sorry I just realized the link I posted came without the time stamp I wanted it to include. Therefore, go to 9:20:15 to see "Toaplan Arcade Shoot 'Em Ups" (see description for time stamps), that's what I wanted to share. There is an English comment/translation of what was said after each statement. This will also answer your question about the guy with the glasses. I could give you a brief summary but I can't remember exactly right now and I don't want to say anything wrong so just have a look

[spmbx]

Ok, the other guy is James Wragg, which i don't know but that probably says more about me than anything else.

[FunktionJCB]

There's now a Toaplan X Psikyo Collection bundle on Steam, featuring a total of 25 games, and a 38% discount.
For those that already own some of the titles, this may be a good way to get a few more games on the cheap, with the complete the bundle option.

https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/4 ... ollection/

[BloodHawk]

I apologize if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it, but does anyone know if these Bitwave versions include the option to have them output their actual original refresh rates (IIRC some are 55 or 58Hz)? I figure that would go well with a VRR enabled display. That way it would be at the right speed without any frame skips.

[FunktionJCB]

I apologize if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it, but does anyone know if these Bitwave versions include the option to have them output their actual original refresh rates (IIRC some are 55 or 58Hz)? I figure that would go well with a VRR enabled display. That way it would be at the right speed without any frame skips.

Yes, you have "original" (about 58Hz, I believe) and 60Hz options available.

[mrsmr2]

For my fixed rate monitor, I change the video option to windowed instead of full screen and set the windows refresh rate to the relevant rate.

[Unlucky7]

What is the current state of the Bitwave Toaplan ports? Going back to a page ago this thread was talking about audio issues but there have been at least a couple of patches for the games I have looked at.

FWIW as someone who never played OG Batsugun I got the Bitwave port and did not notice any huge differences between that and Fightcade.

[Steven]

I apologize if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it, but does anyone know if these Bitwave versions include the option to have them output their actual original refresh rates (IIRC some are 55 or 58Hz)? I figure that would go well with a VRR enabled display. That way it would be at the right speed without any frame skips.

The option is there, but it doesn't matter because they fall out of sync with the PCBs even with it enabled. Even if it stayed in sync with the PCB, all slowdown was removed (although I'd consider it an upgrade, especially for games with a shitload of slowdown on PCB like Hellfire), so they still wouldn't stay in sync. Not that MAME stays in sync with the PCBs either, but yeah.

What is the current state of the Bitwave Toaplan ports? Going back to a page ago this thread was talking about audio issues but there have been at least a couple of patches for the games I have looked at.

FWIW as someone who never played OG Batsugun I got the Bitwave port and did not notice any huge differences between that and Fightcade.

Batsugun is the only one that isn't a complete travesty that I can remember. Maybe also FixEight, but I don't know anything about that game. Don't bother with the rest.

Actually Tatsujin Ou is mostly okay enough, now that I think about it some more. Vimana should also be similar.

[FunktionJCB]

What is the current state of the Bitwave Toaplan ports? Going back to a page ago this thread was talking about audio issues but there have been at least a couple of patches for the games I have looked at.

FWIW as someone who never played OG Batsugun I got the Bitwave port and did not notice any huge differences between that and Fightcade.

Steven already posted above his feedback, and he has a lot of experience with Toaplan titles and their original PCBs, owning quite a few of them, so he is one of the most apt people in the forum to tell you about how the Bitwave releases fare.
And apparently, one way or another, they don't translate the original arcade experience.

But, if you are interested in a more "casual" take of someone whose experience with these games was mostly through emulation (I likely only played one or two of these titles at the arcades, and it wasn't extensively), I quite like them. They are inexpensive (you can get all 16 for the price of a single modern game, and when on sale, they can be quite cheap), they are very responsive and "fluid" (I prefer them to various other emulators I tried; you mentioned Batsugun; there's another version by City Connection on Steam, and the Bitwave release plays a lot better than that one), they have an optional CRT filter that looks great on my monitor, they have multiple ROM versions, some QOL features, online leaderboards, (...). I quite like them, and when I have a few minutes, I frequently launch them for a play or two. They certainly play a lot better than most shmup "ports" available on Steam.

[Steven]

Lol I only have 6 of them. I have played 23 of Toaplan's games on PCB, including all STGs and both the 1P and 2P versions of Same! Same! Same! and both normal Batsugun and Batsugun Special, though FixEight is still a huge mystery. I keep thinking about buying the PCB to check it out, but I never actually do it for some reason or another.

Anyway, these things are really weird. They have super ultra low input lag, especially if you play at higher than 60Hz, so these theoretically have the lowest input lag of any way to play Toaplan, but they also are lacking in autofire functionality (you can only use one autofire rate, so you must use a controller capable of autofire so you can set a second rate if you want optimal settings for most games), have audio that ranges from broken at worst (Tatsujin, and most of the games' sound effects are completely broken) to slightly off at best (I think Batsugun has the best audio and even that sounds too harsh at times. Same with Tatsujin Ou, which is mostly good but the shot sound effects break when specific parts of the BGM play) and have occasional odd glitches. Most of the bugs got fixed, but you'll still see stuff like the background partially disappearing if you game over on Batsugun near the end of stage 4, even before the boss appears. Pretty sure that doesn't happen on PCB.

I'm also fairly certain that the online leaderboards don't track stats properly, but I've never really confirmed it. I also don't know if they actually separated the leaderboards for V-V and V-V Bomber Version.

[MJR]

Lol I only have 6 of them. I have played 23 of Toaplan's games on PCB, including all STGs and both the 1P and 2P versions of Same! Same! Same! and both normal Batsugun and Batsugun Special, though FixEight is still a huge mystery. I keep thinking about buying the PCB to check it out, but I never actually do it for some reason or another.

Anyway, these things are really weird. They have super ultra low input lag, especially if you play at higher than 60Hz, so these theoretically have the lowest input lag of any way to play Toaplan, but they also are lacking in autofire functionality (you can only use one autofire rate, so you must use a controller capable of autofire so you can set a second rate if you want optimal settings for most games), have audio that ranges from broken at worst (Tatsujin, and most of the games' sound effects are completely broken) to slightly off at best (I think Batsugun has the best audio and even that sounds too harsh at times. Same with Tatsujin Ou, which is mostly good but the shot sound effects break when specific parts of the BGM play) and have occasional odd glitches. Most of the bugs got fixed, but you'll still see stuff like the background partially disappearing if you game over on Batsugun near the end of stage 4, even before the boss appears. Pretty sure that doesn't happen on PCB.

I'm also fairly certain that the online leaderboards don't track stats properly, but I've never really confirmed it. I also don't know if they actually separated the leaderboards for V-V and V-V Bomber Version.

I got some Toaplan games also on PCB (Hellfire, Truxton/Tatsujin and Outzone), and imho ”broken” is dramatizing things a bit. Since the last patch that was on spring, the audio in Truxton/Tatsujin is now only slightly off. And thats all I can detect. There are some details that dont really come across the same, to my recollection, and thats all I remember.

These are not emulations, these are port/emulation hybrids with original code running on virtual hardware presumably.

They are not same quality as M2 emulation and not quite same experience (When it has ever been??), but I think they are worth the little money they cost. And since setting up the PCB is sometimes a hassle and I am busy, I sometimes fire them up even when I got the PCB

[Firehawke]

Alcon/Slap Fight still sounds really off to me on the BitWave releases. Certain sound effects are just really off to my ears.

Now that there's a Toaplan collection on iOS/Android that supports gamepad, it might be worth doing a comparison to see how things stack up.

In my experience right now, tested on an Android device (Retroid Pocket 5) and on an m2-based iPad Air, neither seemed to have noticeable input lag; this is a point I'm pretty sensitive on. I tested the Android one hooked to a monitor using a wired Xbox controller and on iOS with a DualSense over BT. They're about the same price per-game on all three platforms (BitWave's PC, Tatsujin's iOS, Tatsujin's Android) so quality of experience is probably the biggest difference here. Oh, you do get one game for free (Tatsujin/Truxton) on Android/iOS, which is the game I used for testing.

Would be interested to see what others think of these and how they stack up in your experience/opinion.

[Steven]

Slap Fight doesn't sound right on MAME either. Never tried any other emulators, but it's possible that it won't sound right unless you play it on PCB.